Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[unidentifiable]

Do me a solid:

Check under Essay PQs.

Scroll to Contracts & Sales.

Look at the last two "READ & OUTLINE"s.

Is the ID number the same for both (3566?)? If anyone has completed these, are they the same essay?

[Easy-E]

Do me a solid:

Check under Essay PQs.

Scroll to Contracts & Sales.

Look at the last two "READ & OUTLINE"s.

Is the ID number the same for both (3566?)? If anyone has completed these, are they the same essay?

Nope, I have 3566 and 2245. Contact Themis.

[unidentifiable]

Do me a solid:

Check under Essay PQs.

Scroll to Contracts & Sales.

Look at the last two "READ & OUTLINE"s.

Is the ID number the same for both (3566?)? If anyone has completed these, are they the same essay?

Nope, I have 3566 and 2245. Contact Themis.

Thank you.

[xfer999]

Is Themis's outline blatantly wrong here?

Crim Pro:

Themis's Outline:

3. Compliance
a. Jury size and unanimity
A jury of less than six members is a denial of due process, and a unanimous verdict is constitutionally required if a jury is made up of only six members. For juries of seven or more, the vote need not be unanimous, but there is no strict rule as to how many votes are required for conviction.

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure R. 31(a):

Return. The jury must return its verdict to a judge in open court. The verdict must be unanimous.


haaaaalp

Fed. Rules can be more restrictive than constitutional due process. State court jury standards would need to comply with the U.S. Constitution, not Fed. Rules, so that's where you might have a non-unanimous jury.

[PotLuck]

How many MPTs do you all plan to have logged by the bar? I've only done a graded and ungraded on so far and did well on both. I'm trying to figure out if its worth investing in another 1-2 in the next two weeks. Fwiw my MBE scores are total garbage so I was hoping to focus on that.

[bobbypin]

Is Themis's outline blatantly wrong here?

Crim Pro:

Themis's Outline:

3. Compliance
a. Jury size and unanimity
A jury of less than six members is a denial of due process, and a unanimous verdict is constitutionally required if a jury is made up of only six members. For juries of seven or more, the vote need not be unanimous, but there is no strict rule as to how many votes are required for conviction.

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure R. 31(a):

Return. The jury must return its verdict to a judge in open court. The verdict must be unanimous.


haaaaalp

Fed. Rules can be more restrictive than constitutional due process. State court jury standards would need to comply with the U.S. Constitution, not Fed. Rules, so that's where you might have a non-unanimous jury.

Federal trials require unanimous juries by rule (FRCP) even though the Constitution does not require unanimous jury decisions. Additionally, Oregon and Louisiana allow for non-unanimous jury decisions. You can be convicted of a felony in Oregon with 10 of 12.

[bobbypin]

How many MPTs do you all plan to have logged by the bar? I've only done a graded and ungraded on so far and did well on both. I'm trying to figure out if its worth investing in another 1-2 in the next two weeks. Fwiw my MBE scores are total garbage so I was hoping to focus on that.

I'm planning on reading and outlining the weird MPTs to prepare for the possibility that they throw us a curve ball. I'm doing one a day.

Ashton v Indigo kicked my ass. I was a deer in the headlights with how to even start writing it even though it wasn't a weird one. I want to have at least seen everything so I'm not surprised.

[rambleon65]

Is Themis's outline blatantly wrong here?

Crim Pro:

Themis's Outline:

3. Compliance
a. Jury size and unanimity
A jury of less than six members is a denial of due process, and a unanimous verdict is constitutionally required if a jury is made up of only six members. For juries of seven or more, the vote need not be unanimous, but there is no strict rule as to how many votes are required for conviction.

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure R. 31(a):

Return. The jury must return its verdict to a judge in open court. The verdict must be unanimous.


haaaaalp

Fed. Rules can be more restrictive than constitutional due process. State court jury standards would need to comply with the U.S. Constitution, not Fed. Rules, so that's where you might have a non-unanimous jury.

Federal trials require unanimous juries by rule (FRCP) even though the Constitution does not require unanimous jury decisions. Additionally, Oregon and Louisiana allow for non-unanimous jury decisions. You can be convicted of a felony in Oregon with 10 of 12.

Ahh, i missed the "constitutionally required" part. I thought for some reason the outline was talking about federal rules... I assumed that MBE Criminal Procedure was about the federal rules, not necessarily the constitutional floor. part of the confusion was because this question came up with regard to a federal criminal proceeding which WOULD require unanimity regardless of jury size.

[mu13ski]

How many MPTs do you all plan to have logged by the bar? I've only done a graded and ungraded on so far and did well on both. I'm trying to figure out if its worth investing in another 1-2 in the next two weeks. Fwiw my MBE scores are total garbage so I was hoping to focus on that.

I'm planning on reading and outlining the weird MPTs to prepare for the possibility that they throw us a curve ball. I'm doing one a day.

Ashton v Indigo kicked my ass. I was a deer in the headlights with how to even start writing it even though it wasn't a weird one. I want to have at least seen everything so I'm not surprised.

Which one was that and what are some of the weirder ones? So far I've only ran into the basic write a legal memo ones

[Easy-E]

Anyone have succinct statement of procedural due process analysis?

[ultimolugar]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

[ultimolugar]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

[ultimolugar]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

AND 79 CENTS GETS YOU A DOZEN DONUTS AT KRISPY KREME TOMORROW.

[unidentifiable]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

AND 79 CENTS GETS YOU A DOZEN DONUTS AT KRISPY KREME TOMORROW.

(heavy breathing)

[bsktbll28082]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

AND 79 CENTS GETS YOU A DOZEN DONUTS AT KRISPY KREME TOMORROW.

It's also Prime Day on Amazon right now.

[ndp1234]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

I was the OP regarding the 58¢ pancakes and I just came back and it's legit. You just have to dine in (so that means tip).

[ChocolateTruffle]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

Damn, I was a cow for Halloween one year. I could've used my cow costume to get free food, but there is no Chick-fil-a near where I live!

[ndp1234]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

Damn, I was a cow for Halloween one year. I could've used my cow costume to get free food, but there is no Chick-fil-a near where I live!

I'm sure you can just dress in white and color in black spots and they'll give it to you

[xfer999]

Is Themis's outline blatantly wrong here?

Crim Pro:

Themis's Outline:

3. Compliance
a. Jury size and unanimity
A jury of less than six members is a denial of due process, and a unanimous verdict is constitutionally required if a jury is made up of only six members. For juries of seven or more, the vote need not be unanimous, but there is no strict rule as to how many votes are required for conviction.

...

Ahh, i missed the "constitutionally required" part. I thought for some reason the outline was talking about federal rules... I assumed that MBE Criminal Procedure was about the federal rules, not necessarily the constitutional floor. part of the confusion was because this question came up with regard to a federal criminal proceeding which WOULD require unanimity regardless of jury size.

Yeah, be careful, Con Law & Crim Pro are testing The Actual Real-Life U.S. Constitution, applying to federal government, states, etc. (If it's state government, not fed, hook in the 14th Amendment on your essay.) Evidence and Civ Pro are federal rules (FRE, FRCP), with occasional constitutional stuff like 6th Amdt confrontation clause or Due Process for personal jdx minimum contacts test. The others (K, Torts, Crim Law, Property) are "generic law" that test principles and legal theory rather than any specific jurisdiction's laws. At least for MBE/MEE.

[mu13ski]

I still want clarification on 58 cent pancake stacks. Fuck the bar exam.

A quick google search has confirmed this AND if you dress up like a cow (which isn't a stretch considering 58 cent pancake stacks), you get free food at Chic-fil-a.

AND 79 CENTS GETS YOU A DOZEN DONUTS AT KRISPY KREME TOMORROW.

It's also Prime Day on Amazon right now.

Anything worthwhile on there?

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Just got my seat assignment. FUUUUUUCK.

[mu13ski]

Just got my seat assignment. FUUUUUUCK.

Same. Guess this is actually happening.

[bsktbll28082]

It's also Prime Day on Amazon right now.

Anything worthwhile on there?

Amazon electronics are on sale (echo, kindle, etc.). Pretty good deals on those, 30-50$ off. The rest of the items on sale are harder to decide on, because Amazon could have just jacked up the price for today. Might have to do some camelcamelcamel research.

[Easy-E]

I know the standard is strict scrutiny for content-based regulations of speech. So the standard is compelling gov't interest, yes?

The Themis FRO uses both "compelling gov't interest" and "important gov't interest" w/r/t regulation of speech...

[BigZuck]

I know the standard is strict scrutiny for content-based regulations of speech. So the standard is compelling gov't interest, yes?

The Themis FRO uses both "compelling gov't interest" and "important gov't interest" w/r/t regulation of speech...

That feature of the Themis program is what's called an "Easter Egg," just a fun little thing for especially attentive people to find.

Nice catch!