2016 Illinois Bar Exam Forum

[ndbigdave]

Hello All,

Long time lurker and first time poster.

I am a Michigan resident and went to a Michigan law school. Just passed the July 2015 bar and now looking to take the Illinois bar at the request of my firm.

From doing my basic research it appears my MBE score will "transfer" as it is within 13 months and meets the threshold of 141 (my score is actually right on 141).

Just as I did for the July bar, I will be working full-time and self studying. I utilized BarMax for the MBE, but that isnt really going to help this time around as I only have the "other half" to complete.

My questions involve prepping - what to buy for the essay portion just what to expect as it appears Illinois is slightly different from Michigan. Thanks in advance for some basic tips and just what to expect.

[curious21]

Interested in this as well. Considering taking the July exam as I passed the Texas exam this year, but I'm from Chicago and if I ever move, it will be back home.

I didn't work during the first time I studied but definitely will e working this time. Have a high enough MBE score so that should help. Will probably call BARBRI and see how much it would cost to study for the essays only, since I'm an "alumni" and used BARBRI for the Texas exam.

[lawstudent002]

I took the Feb. 2015 exam and passed. Here are my thoughts.

The IL essay portion consists of 3 IL specific essays in the morning (90 minutes) and 1 MPT in the morning (90 minutes). The afternoon consists of 6 MEE essay questions (3 hours). I walked out of essay day feeling good. MBE day, not so good. But since IL will not tell you your MBE score, I have no way of knowing how I did.

As for studying, I did self study while working full time and focused heavy on MBE sections. Never wrote out a practice essay, just did some brief outlines. On test day, I followed IRAC. There is a word limit on all essays and you will be prevented from typing beyond it so the point is really to be able to keep it short and sweet. Use the facts and make sure you give a conclusion. If you forget the rule, make one up. All probably very similar to what you did for your other states.

So my advice for studying essays, break out your old mbe outlines plus family, corporations, trusts/wills, secured transactions. There are a few IL distinctions but I wouldn't worry if you can't get IL specific outlines. Review those, do some practice essays if that's your thing and follow IRAC.

Here is my big piece of advice. You got a 141 on the MBE less than one year ago. If you were to score that again, you would almost be guaranteed to pass. In IL you score is just a combination of essay and MBE, as long as you hit the number (I think it's 266 now) you pass regardless of whether you did great on one day and horrible on the other day. If you just take essay portion, you probably have to hit a certain minimum score. So, it might be in your best interest to take both essay and MBE if you feel you can perform at the same level for the MBE. That would take a lot of pressure off of having to nail the essays. Just my thoughts.

Good luck!

[curious21]

I took the Feb. 2015 exam and passed. Here are my thoughts.

The IL essay portion consists of 3 IL specific essays in the morning (90 minutes) and 1 MPT in the morning (90 minutes). The afternoon consists of 6 MEE essay questions (3 hours). I walked out of essay day feeling good. MBE day, not so good. But since IL will not tell you your MBE score, I have no way of knowing how I did.

As for studying, I did self study while working full time and focused heavy on MBE sections. Never wrote out a practice essay, just did some brief outlines. On test day, I followed IRAC. There is a word limit on all essays and you will be prevented from typing beyond it so the point is really to be able to keep it short and sweet. Use the facts and make sure you give a conclusion. If you forget the rule, make one up. All probably very similar to what you did for your other states.

So my advice for studying essays, break out your old mbe outlines plus family, corporations, trusts/wills, secured transactions. There are a few IL distinctions but I wouldn't worry if you can't get IL specific outlines. Review those, do some practice essays if that's your thing and follow IRAC.

Here is my big piece of advice. You got a 141 on the MBE less than one year ago. If you were to score that again, you would almost be guaranteed to pass. In IL you score is just a combination of essay and MBE, as long as you hit the number (I think it's 266 now) you pass regardless of whether you did great on one day and horrible on the other day. If you just take essay portion, you probably have to hit a certain minimum score. So, it might be in your best interest to take both essay and MBE if you feel you can perform at the same level for the MBE. That would take a lot of pressure off of having to nail the essays. Just my thoughts.

Good luck!

Thanks for this! I just had my MBE score transferred but I am curious as to what "passing" is for essays only. I called the bar office and the person I spoke with didn't seem to understand my question. I'm waiting for my driving records so my application can be complete. Once that happens I can call my assigned processor and see what the essay score is. If I can get an answer I'll be sure to post back in this thread.

[arc1138]

Hey all,

I took and failed the IL bar in July, mostly I think because I didnt have a clue what I was up against, fucked around too much and wasted too much damn time watching lectures and following Themis' directed study. Oh, also Im a typer, always have been; but I didnt buy the software in time and had to write. (I know, get your shit together, right?)

Heres the thing, I feel like im drifitng around and need some advice on what to do this time around to get down to the nitty gritty and pass.

I was able to get ahold of Barbri materials, and I ordered critical pass flash cards.

How would you suggest I use my time best to pass?

Also I work part time, so I only have like 4-5 hours a day to study

[bartaker2016]

Interested in this as well. Considering taking the July exam as I passed the Texas exam this year, but I'm from Chicago and if I ever move, it will be back home.

I didn't work during the first time I studied but definitely will e working this time. Have a high enough MBE score so that should help. Will probably call BARBRI and see how much it would cost to study for the essays only, since I'm an "alumni" and used BARBRI for the Texas exam.

I'm in the same boat as you! However, I know that IL does not count your transferred MBE score. So that means your passage is totally dependant on your essay performance.

If you get the outlines for IL, could you send them to me? My email is bar2174419@maricopa.edu. Thanks!

[crumpetsandtea]

Hey guys!

Took CA and passed in July...now I'm taking IL while working (which sucks ass)

FYI for those wondering about BarBri pricing, I HIGHLY recommend emailing your local school's barbri rep. They are usually super willing to give out pretty large discounts (I got 1/2 off the alumni price and only had to pay like $1300)

[lawst_]

Checking in, begrudgingly.

Failed IL in July '15. Did horribly on the MBE, but did average or above average on most essays.

Working full time and studying. Haven't nailed down a solid study plan yet because my work schedule and commute are never consistent. Some days I get home at 6:15pm, other days I get home at 8:30pm. Really trying to maximize my weekends and put in hardcore studying then, while using weekdays for shorter quizzes and review.

Taking Barbri again, only because I got a free re-take. Not thrilled with their program. Lectures are useless. But I'm finding the CMR to be pretty great.

[K Rock]

Checking in, begrudgingly.

Failed IL in July '15. Did horribly on the MBE, but did average or above average on most essays.

Working full time and studying. Haven't nailed down a solid study plan yet because my work schedule and commute are never consistent. Some days I get home at 6:15pm, other days I get home at 8:30pm. Really trying to maximize my weekends and put in hardcore studying then, while using weekdays for shorter quizzes and review.

Taking Barbri again, only because I got a free re-take. Not thrilled with their program. Lectures are useless. But I'm finding the CMR to be pretty great.

You need to do as many practice MBE questions as possible. Read Barbri's explanations and learn from your mistakes.

[lawst_]

Checking in, begrudgingly.

Failed IL in July '15. Did horribly on the MBE, but did average or above average on most essays.

Working full time and studying. Haven't nailed down a solid study plan yet because my work schedule and commute are never consistent. Some days I get home at 6:15pm, other days I get home at 8:30pm. Really trying to maximize my weekends and put in hardcore studying then, while using weekdays for shorter quizzes and review.

Taking Barbri again, only because I got a free re-take. Not thrilled with their program. Lectures are useless. But I'm finding the CMR to be pretty great.

You need to do as many practice MBE questions as possible. Read Barbri's explanations and learn from your mistakes.

Thanks! I definitely need to get better at doing MBE questions. My study schedule, frankly, hasn't been great. A combination of work and general life stressors. Anyways, this is my week to really really get back on track. If you have any other suggestions, I'm open to them. I need to make a schedule I can stick to.

[curious21]

I signed up for Themis because the program seemed comparable to what I did with BARBRI for the Texas exam. Forms sent in for the July Exam, essay only (I think, will I receive confirmation that they accepted my MBE score?). Plan to start studying in March.

[kyle010723]

As someone who passed in July 2015, a quick tip is to not bother with IL distinctions on substantive law except for IL civ pro. The IL essays, even if you get tort or crim, you can still answer under general common law without referring to IL at all and will still likely be right. That being said, IL civ pro is almost always tested. And apparently wills and trust in IL is very different from other states (never took W&T in law school, so no clue).

[crumpetsandtea]

As someone who passed in July 2015, a quick tip is to not bother with IL distinctions on substantive law except for IL civ pro. The IL essays, even if you get tort or crim, you can still answer under general common law without referring to IL at all and will still likely be right. That being said, IL civ pro is almost always tested. And apparently wills and trust in IL is very different from other states (never took W&T in law school, so no clue).

This is super helpful, thank you.

[shadowdrew]

I also graduated from law school in CA, passed the CA bar exam in July 2015 and transferred my MBE for the Illinois February 2016 exam. It is my understanding that if you are only taking the 1 day exam you have to get a 133. However, I'm not sure what that would require us to score on each individual essay and the MPT. If anyone figures this out, I would love to know!

I also am struggling with the best way to study for the essays only? Has anyone found something that's working well for them? I'm taking barbri but most of it is geared towards the MBE. I'd love any advice.

Finally, does anyone have outlines for the IL specific topics? Admin, Suretyship, Commercial Paper etc. are like greek to me.

Thanks!!

[kyle010723]

I also graduated from law school in CA, passed the CA bar exam in July 2015 and transferred my MBE for the Illinois February 2016 exam. It is my understanding that if you are only taking the 1 day exam you have to get a 133. However, I'm not sure what that would require us to score on each individual essay and the MPT. If anyone figures this out, I would love to know!

I also am struggling with the best way to study for the essays only? Has anyone found something that's working well for them? I'm taking barbri but most of it is geared towards the MBE. I'd love any advice.

Finally, does anyone have outlines for the IL specific topics? Admin, Suretyship, Commercial Paper etc. are like greek to me.

Thanks!!

133 is about 30th percentile.

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... -july-2015

Best way to study for the essays is just to do as many of them as you can (at least outline)...

[zuli]

Commercial paper - it's still on prep courses but do we really need to be studying this? Themis materials say it's never been tested on the IL essays and the MEE dropped it in 2015. It's long and awful. Thoughts?

[KirbyKager]

I too am wondering about Commercial Paper. Have not been able to get a solid answer.

It is still listed under the Illinois Board Examiner website rules. I think it was like 704(d) where I saw it. Like you mentioned, I am fairly confident is no longer a MEE topic but as far as the IEE I don't know what to do.

I hate the IEE.

[crumpetsandtea]

I too am wondering about Commercial Paper. Have not been able to get a solid answer.

It is still listed under the Illinois Board Examiner website rules. I think it was like 704(d) where I saw it. Like you mentioned, I am fairly confident is no longer a MEE topic but as far as the IEE I don't know what to do.

I hate the IEE.

Yeah, why the HELL are there SO MANY DAMN TOPICS TO LEARN??? It's driving me nuts ):

[ndbigdave]

Thanks for the replies! I thought hope was lost when I posted in November and didn't see anything for the first few weeks.

Here are my remaining questions:

#1 - I can "transfer" my MBE score from Michigan's July 2015 test of 141. Does the the simple math mean that I would need to score 123 on the essay to pass?
(I get this math from the 264 "Total" score necessary to pass in 2014, forgive me if the number has gone up - I read somewhere it may rise to a total score of 272 which would simply mean I would need a 131 on the essays to pass - correct?)

#2 - Having come from Michigan and going to a Michigan Law school I have exactly 0 experience and familiarity with the MPT, MEE or IEE. Is there a particular book or way to review? I feel comfortable writing essays and I had zero issue with timing for my "20 Minute Michigan Essays" and my legal work over the last 8 years has been almost exclusively reading, researching and writing - be it motions, responses, briefs or memos - so I feel confident I can get words out in a somewhat competent way.

#3 - For anyone who has passed or has experience with the Illinois Essay portions - how tough did you find it? Were the questions otherwise to the point? How do you find the grading? My experience with Michigan was pretty fair - to get the basic 6's or 7's out of 10 one did not have to show any level of mastery but just a very basic familiarity with what was going on.

Thanks in advance

[ndbigdave]

Here is my big piece of advice. You got a 141 on the MBE less than one year ago. If you were to score that again, you would almost be guaranteed to pass. In IL you score is just a combination of essay and MBE, as long as you hit the number (I think it's 266 now) you pass regardless of whether you did great on one day and horrible on the other day. If you just take essay portion, you probably have to hit a certain minimum score. So, it might be in your best interest to take both essay and MBE if you feel you can perform at the same level for the MBE. That would take a lot of pressure off of having to nail the essays. Just my thoughts.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. As I missed the deadline for February, I am now looking at July. I think if I went back through and prepped I could score similarly, but not sure now that I am months away from the material. Admittedly, I prepped VERY little for the MBE the first time around (See: Did about 200 practice questions and listened to BarMax lectures while driving) so I could likely replicate that "effort" if necessary.

That being said, if they accept my 141 and the "total" score to pass is 266 would that mean I need only a 125 on the essays to pass? Is there any way to confirm this information? I see you mentioned there may be another "minimum" score to pass if I took just the essay portion - I wonder what the score would be and where I could get the info.

Thanks again for the input.

[curious21]

Here is my big piece of advice. You got a 141 on the MBE less than one year ago. If you were to score that again, you would almost be guaranteed to pass. In IL you score is just a combination of essay and MBE, as long as you hit the number (I think it's 266 now) you pass regardless of whether you did great on one day and horrible on the other day. If you just take essay portion, you probably have to hit a certain minimum score. So, it might be in your best interest to take both essay and MBE if you feel you can perform at the same level for the MBE. That would take a lot of pressure off of having to nail the essays. Just my thoughts.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. As I missed the deadline for February, I am now looking at July. I think if I went back through and prepped I could score similarly, but not sure now that I am months away from the material. Admittedly, I prepped VERY little for the MBE the first time around (See: Did about 200 practice questions and listened to BarMax lectures while driving) so I could likely replicate that "effort" if necessary.

That being said, if they accept my 141 and the "total" score to pass is 266 would that mean I need only a 125 on the essays to pass? Is there any way to confirm this information? I see you mentioned there may be another "minimum" score to pass if I took just the essay portion - I wonder what the score would be and where I could get the info.

Thanks again for the input.

The minimum essay score is 133. That is about 30th percentile according to the posted analysis of passing grades. I found them through a Google search but didn't save the link.

[ndbigdave]

The minimum essay score is 133. That is about 30th percentile according to the posted analysis of passing grades. I found them through a Google search but didn't save the link.

I can certainly do a search for myself, but I would be curious to see what you found. Though I can appreciate having a "base score" it also sounds somewhat unfair. What I mean by that is, if I were to re-take the MBE and score 141 Id only need a 125 to achieve the 266 to pass, but because I am "transferring" a score I actually have to score 8 more points? Maybe that is to counter balance the fact that I only have to study for the essay and dont have to prep the MBE or go through it? Not sure, but its a way to require/force transferring students to score slightly higher because they are bringing in a score earned somewhere else.

I say all that while noting - 30 percentile should be entirely achievable with relatively low effort seeing as its one day and knowing in the back of my mind I need a pretty low level of comprehension to reach it.

[curious21]

The minimum essay score is 133. That is about 30th percentile according to the posted analysis of passing grades. I found them through a Google search but didn't save the link.

I can certainly do a search for myself, but I would be curious to see what you found. Though I can appreciate having a "base score" it also sounds somewhat unfair. What I mean by that is, if I were to re-take the MBE and score 141 Id only need a 125 to achieve the 266 to pass, but because I am "transferring" a score I actually have to score 8 more points? Maybe that is to counter balance the fact that I only have to study for the essay and dont have to prep the MBE or go through it? Not sure, but its a way to require/force transferring students to score slightly higher because they are bringing in a score earned somewhere else.

I say all that while noting - 30 percentile should be entirely achievable with relatively low effort seeing as its one day and knowing in the back of my mind I need a pretty low level of comprehension to reach it.

What I found is actually linked a few posts up. Someone else mentions the 30th percentile and provides a link.

I got the 133 from the Illinois Bar examiners. I applied to transfer my score for the July bar and in the acceptance of my materials letter it says the minimum score is 133. I think it's because if you had an extremely high MBE, you wouldn't have to really study Illinois law at all to pass, and why would they admit you if you don't know Illinois law? Setting up a minimum "ensures" minimal competence.

[ndbigdave]

What I found is actually linked a few posts up. Someone else mentions the 30th percentile and provides a link.

I got the 133 from the Illinois Bar examiners. I applied to transfer my score for the July bar and in the acceptance of my materials letter it says the minimum score is 133. I think it's because if you had an extremely high MBE, you wouldn't have to really study Illinois law at all to pass, and why would they admit you if you don't know Illinois law? Setting up a minimum "ensures" minimal competence.

That makes all the sense in the world to me - to achieve some basic level of competence on the IL essay portion

Seeing as you are in the same/similar position as I am - what are you doing to prep? Are you buying any books for review? Im not sure if my MI Mini Conviser (which admittedly is for a couple years back as it is already) will be sufficient to prep for IL.

[curious21]

What I found is actually linked a few posts up. Someone else mentions the 30th percentile and provides a link.

I got the 133 from the Illinois Bar examiners. I applied to transfer my score for the July bar and in the acceptance of my materials letter it says the minimum score is 133. I think it's because if you had an extremely high MBE, you wouldn't have to really study Illinois law at all to pass, and why would they admit you if you don't know Illinois law? Setting up a minimum "ensures" minimal competence.

That makes all the sense in the world to me - to achieve some basic level of competence on the IL essay portion

Seeing as you are in the same/similar position as I am - what are you doing to prep? Are you buying any books for review? Im not sure if my MI Mini Conviser (which admittedly is for a couple years back as it is already) will be sufficient to prep for IL.

I'm a pretty process oriented person so I went ahead and purchased the Illinois Themis package. In March I plan to watch all of the videos and complete the worksheets for both the MBE subjects and the essay subjects. April-July my plan is to write/ outline 3-5 essays a day. That's not that much time per day, including going over the answers to see what I got wrong, but in the end it's about 350-580 practice essays. I'll also do a few MPTs. That's probably enough practice essays to pass.