Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam Forum

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sd5289

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by sd5289 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:19 pm

sdphill wrote:
KTnKT wrote:Question to repeaters or those starting early.... what's with the advanced sales lectures? On the second one and so far it's just a rehash of contracts. I feel like I'm wasting time.

Have y'all discovered a purpose or does it deviate soon?
It is a rehash. Don't watch. Just skip and answer the questions at the end of each video.
Agreed. I don't remember anything coming up in the "advanced" sales material that made a difference on the actual bar.

P.S. I took Themis and passed NY. If I remember I did something like 1700-1800 MBE practice questions and somewhere around 50-60 practice essays. One thing that helped I think was that I started doing "test" mode during the MBE sets in July. Not only did my % correct increase dramatically, I could tell in the results that if I didn't know I had gotten one or two questions wrong, I was better able to continue blazing through as if nothing happened. It also helped me practice moving on and forgetting about it when I was uncertain on an answer choice, which very much came in handy on the real thing as I felt like that for 65% of the entire MBE.

For 1st time takers I think first month focus on crunching all the material down into the outlines and handouts they have is good (it also doesn't burn you out quite like the 2nd month of just practice, flash cards, more practice, etc., which is also good). I didn't start making flash cards until July, and I didn't even bother making my own outlines. The final study ones Themis had felt sufficient, but that was after spending June doing the handouts and lectures (admittedly on 2x-3x depending on how slow the lecturer was). Wouldn't even bother with the post-MBE practice videos. Other then enraging you with "this was an easy question" ad nauseum, I didn't pick up anything from those.

The Themis MBE questions are real MBE questions (except Civ Pro). Honestly I wasn't as taken by surprise as a lot of people on TLS seemed to be at the actual MBE questions. The only questions that really felt alien were the Civ Pro questions (I don't remember a single question on jurisdiction when Themis beat you over the head with it). But since Civ Pro is a new MBE subject, I can't complain too much on that. I also have a very clear memory of a Wills MBE question, which was just "LOL I see you non-graded question."

Final piece of advice is don't shirk the simulated exams. You need practice with the pressure and uncertainty. I know a lot of people in NY who freaked after the essay that shall not be named, which seeped into their performance on the MPT (probably the easiest set of points you can get) and into the next day during the MBE. So, do ALL of the simulations, and do them in "test" conditions.

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MrMustache

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by MrMustache » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:05 pm

It's 2015 and I still have to wait for snail mail to see what score I got to fail the bar, after waiting for four months to find out that I failed. :evil:

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Raiden

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Raiden » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:00 pm

Repeaters, what schedule are you guys planning to do? I was planning to start studying after thanksgiving. I suppose I would read big outlines during Decemeber, and then practice after that.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by MrMustache » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:01 pm

For those of you who have already signed up for the Themis course. Has it officially started already? If not, when is the start date?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by MrMustache » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:22 pm

Raiden wrote:Repeaters, what schedule are you guys planning to do? I was planning to start studying after thanksgiving. I suppose I would read big outlines during Decemeber, and then practice after that.

My plan might change once I get another copy for my lost score report. I plan to follow the Themis Directed Study schedule as a rough outline and focus on Flex study. I will read the big outlines and jump into practicing MBEs and Essays. For the July bar, I focused more on the MBEs- big mistake given the MBE set we got for the July bar. This time around I will focus on essays. I think I will also sign-up for BarEssays in addition to Themis, because I found the Themis feedback for graded essays to be lacking ("it doesn't look like the model answer")

I will also focus on memorization from the beginning. For the July bar, I felt like I spent too much time on refreshing my understanding of the subjects I took in law school and learning the subjects I was learning from scratch. As a result, I wasted too much time during the bar on thinking about how to rephrase a rule that I understand to make it sound like an actual rule.

Edit: Got my score report. Had 1500 on MBE, and 1286 on written portion. Will definitely focus on essays this time around.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by KTnKT » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:41 pm

MrMustache wrote:For those of you who have already signed up for the Themis course. Has it officially started already? If not, when is the start date?
There is an advised start date, and then just the date that access opens. I started when access opened, Nov. 4 for my state. Advised start date was something like Dec. 21. Given that I work full time, it wasn't advisable for me to wait until then.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by EyeTwitchAllSummer » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:46 pm

Hey, fellow Themis peeps.

As a 2nd time bar reviewer, I am just throwing this out there for anyone who has the opportunity to get their hands on other bar materials like Barbri or BarMax. My bar tutor says he checked out the Themis outlines and says that he finds the Themis outlines of black letter law to be confusingly/poorly worded.

He says that Themis' black letter law spends too much time telling you what does not meet the elements of a law as opposed to telling you what the law IS and what DOES meet the elements of the law.

My tutor uses outlines he made based on BarBri's black letter law. Having used these Barbri-based outlines for a few days now, I agree that I have a much easier time learning the law from these outlines as opposed to Themis.

Believe me: I am not trying to make anyone feel like shit and full of buyer's remorse. But if you have friends/classmates that have BarBri's outlines, try them out and compare. If you find BarBri's material is easier to understand, use it. If you find that Themis' material works for you, use Themis.

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Raiden

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Raiden » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:01 pm

Just bought adaptibar, how have people used adaptibar with Themis? The MBE on adaptibar seems much more sophisticated than the ones on Themis, at least the features and fact you know every single question is an actual MBE question.

Also have the $50 coupon code for anyone that wants it, just pm me.

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bluesplitter

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by bluesplitter » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:18 pm

EyeTwitchAllSummer wrote:Hey, fellow Themis peeps.

As a 2nd time bar reviewer, I am just throwing this out there for anyone who has the opportunity to get their hands on other bar materials like Barbri or BarMax. My bar tutor says he checked out the Themis outlines and says that he finds the Themis outlines of black letter law to be confusingly/poorly worded.

He says that Themis' black letter law spends too much time telling you what does not meet the elements of a law as opposed to telling you what the law IS and what DOES meet the elements of the law.

My tutor uses outlines he made based on BarBri's black letter law. Having used these Barbri-based outlines for a few days now, I agree that I have a much easier time learning the law from these outlines as opposed to Themis.

Believe me: I am not trying to make anyone feel like shit and full of buyer's remorse. But if you have friends/classmates that have BarBri's outlines, try them out and compare. If you find BarBri's material is easier to understand, use it. If you find that Themis' material works for you, use Themis.

Not sure if i follow. One month in...i have realized there is no substitute around doing the work. Just do the work. I have themis, and just skim the outlines. The real heavy lifting is doing practice problems and reviewing what and how you picked the wrong answer.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Gamecubesupreme » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:54 am

So I started a bit early and just finished my second MBE PQs Session and did awful...only got 13 right out of 34, which is below the goal of 50%.

I did a lot better on the first PQs Session...really not sure why I did so much worse the second time around.

Is this normal or am I missing something?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by healthnut » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:08 pm

Gamecubesupreme wrote:So I started a bit early and just finished my second MBE PQs Session and did awful...only got 13 right out of 34, which is below the goal of 50%.

I did a lot better on the first PQs Session...really not sure why I did so much worse the second time around.

Is this normal or am I missing something?
I wouldn't worry about it--totally normal. Really start worrying about your MBE scores once you finish the material for all MBE subjects.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Raiden » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:03 pm

Has anyone used bar essays in conjunction with Themis before? I want to compare the model answers with ones that are available on bar essays, but themis doesn't tell you which bar exam the essay question is from.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:07 pm

Raiden wrote:Has anyone used bar essays in conjunction with Themis before? I want to compare the model answers with ones that are available on bar essays, but themis doesn't tell you which bar exam the essay question is from.
I am not officially signedup for the themis program, but I have the books. It is somewhat essay to locate the corresponding essay on Baressays.com because you can do a search by topic...then filter the results by year.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Raiden » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:50 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:
Raiden wrote:Has anyone used bar essays in conjunction with Themis before? I want to compare the model answers with ones that are available on bar essays, but themis doesn't tell you which bar exam the essay question is from.
I am not officially signedup for the themis program, but I have the books. It is somewhat essay to locate the corresponding essay on Baressays.com because you can do a search by topic...then filter the results by year.

Right, but how do you find the essay from themis? They don't tell you which bar exam or which question that essay is from.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Iceman389 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:01 pm

Florida repeater checking in. Took Kaplan the first time but if we are being completely honest I did not take my bar prep seriously and my failure had nothing to do with Kaplan and everything to do with thinking I could cram for two weeks, not do any practice essays and still pass. 134 on the MBE (I think this is passing in some jurisdictions but you need 136 in Florida), above average Florida multiple choice score but straight up BOMBED two of the three essays. Anyone that has taken Florida with Themis that can comment on their essay prep?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by KTnKT » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:37 pm

Welp... Day 1 for Texas Themis users. And the bar is already less than 9 weeks away. Eeek.

Let's do this! :shock:

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by PishPosh » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:30 am

I am a little confused as to what I should be basing my outlines on. Should I be summarizing the lecture handout or the outline in the book? There are some things in the outline the lecturer says not to concentrate on- should I listen to this advice? I just want to know what people are doing bc I summarized both, they overlapped obviously but it took forever! Thank you!

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KTnKT

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by KTnKT » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:13 pm

Honestly, I'm not stressing the outlines much. I'm taking the condensed outlines (found in MBE test book) and just making a note of any acronyms, and highlighting the bits I especially want to remember if I'm skimming. Making them the go to source for anything I want to remember for MBE. That is based on comments from others stating they spent too much time on outlines and lectures and not enough on practice. Might be different if I learned law school primarily by writing detailed outlines. But I didn't.

But on MBE, I'm compiling a list of every black letter rule that I miss by subject, and on the essays, I'm compiling black letter rules that I've been tested over and any specific language I want to remember. I'm tracking the percentage wrong for every subsection and then in my review prior to a problem set I do a quick skim of the condensed outlines provided and only stop to do a slower read through of my weakest areas. That has been helping me improve my scores.

I plan to spend one day on each essay subject just reading old exams, and noting the black letter language and practicing rewriting it.

Dunno if it is right, but I haven't heard one person say that they spent too much time practicing essays and questions. I figure the quicker I can get to actual practice the better... and I'll be memorizing as I practice.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by left shark » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:04 pm

Sooooo, Texas re-taker here. The MBE killed me and I hate it and I am seriously not at peace with having to face it again! My essays were strong, and my MPT and short answers were ok, but I knew going in that if my MBE score was weak, the rest of the stuff wasn't going to save me. I wasn't able to take a prep class for July 2015, but I had some old Barbri books (2011) and did practice questions out of them, but not having a condensed and focused schedule/task list really made everything more difficult. I managed to get the money together for Themis this time and I am just trying to trust that if I do what they tell me to, I'll be ok. So here I am.


Two things:
1. Has anyone started watching the MBE property lectures yet? The professor is kind of awesome, in a nerdy way. I also really liked the torts lecturer- wish I'd had him in school.

2. The practice essays. What do you guys think of them? For me, they haven't been super useful (so far) because they're all old bar questions. During school and bar prep I (and many, many others, I am sure) went over and over and over those questions and answers. Also, the sample answers provided by Themis are just the selected answers from the BLE website, and some of them contain either incorrect or incomplete statements of the law.

I think it is helpful to use the types of questions that the BLE actually asks, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the model answers to a) be 100% correct, and b) not be sourced from fellow bar examinees. I am glad that we will be getting personalized feedback for the graded essays. I wish we had that opportunity for every topic, but I know that might not be feasible so I will just make the most out of the commentary I do get.


ANYWAY. Even with my essay frustrations, I'm just going to trust them and trust their pass rates. Some of my friends who passed did prep with Themis, so clearly it does work. It has to, because I'm not sure I can do this a third time.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by KTnKT » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:48 am

left shark wrote:
Two things:
1. Has anyone started watching the MBE property lectures yet? The professor is kind of awesome, in a nerdy way. I also really liked the torts lecturer- wish I'd had him in school.

2. The practice essays. What do you guys think of them? For me, they haven't been super useful (so far) because they're all old bar questions. During school and bar prep I (and many, many others, I am sure) went over and over and over those questions and answers. Also, the sample answers provided by Themis are just the selected answers from the BLE website, and some of them contain either incorrect or incomplete statements of the law.
1. Agreed on both accounts. I love the nerdyness and laughed a lot at the property. Torts guy was just awesome in general. Mostly just didn't dig the family law guy thus far.

2. I agree to the extent that I think they should have modified any incorrect law. Otherwise, I'm fine with using BLE stuff- first time I've seen most of it.








Buuuuut, my question to the forum: are yall actually typing as much as the sample answers? On the graded essay I only typed one page before the time ran out. Compared to the 4 of the sample answer. I spent 15 minutes reading and outlining the answer, 15 writing. Is that the right ratio, or should I be shooting for more like 5 reading and 25 typing? Also, are yall getting as much on paper as the sample answers, or are yall writing less as well? Any tips for somebody clueless on essays like me?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by bluesplitter » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:28 am

KTnKT wrote:


Buuuuut, my question to the forum: are yall actually typing as much as the sample answers? On the graded essay I only typed one page before the time ran out. Compared to the 4 of the sample answer. I spent 15 minutes reading and outlining the answer, 15 writing. Is that the right ratio, or should I be shooting for more like 5 reading and 25 typing? Also, are yall getting as much on paper as the sample answers, or are yall writing less as well? Any tips for somebody clueless on essays like me?

Yes, I also noticed how much essay content in terms of word length there are in the sample answers.

I have adjusted to about a 1o minute read and outline by my third or fourth practice essay.


As far as the essays go, I plan on following the Themis schedule on essays and just trust the system. On the MBE I am attacking on multiple fronts.

The other way I am straying from the Themis schedule is P & E, where once a week I am just entirely focusing on that. Meaning practice fill in the blanks over and over for the whole day.

My theory is if I can do above average on mbe and P&e, ...all i have to do is just average on the Essays, and because I have no idea what the heck is going on in all the subjects in the essays,...I am trusting the system of Themis.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by left shark » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:30 pm

Do you guys feel smarter at the end of every day? I've had a string of really bad days where it seems like I can't remember anything. Trying to keep my head in the game, but it's disheartening to keep getting MBE questions wrong when I thought I had a clue.

First time around, I outlined the outlines in the old barbri books I had, I read them, I made flash cards. It clearly didn't work- how are you guys cementing this crap in your brains? Are you taking notes during the lectures in addition to the lecture handout? When your assignment is "REVIEW: (topic) Lecture Notes and Handout" what are you doing?
Buuuuut, my question to the forum: are yall actually typing as much as the sample answers? On the graded essay I only typed one page before the time ran out. Compared to the 4 of the sample answer. I spent 15 minutes reading and outlining the answer, 15 writing. Is that the right ratio, or should I be shooting for more like 5 reading and 25 typing? Also, are yall getting as much on paper as the sample answers, or are yall writing less as well? Any tips for somebody clueless on essays like me?
I'm still managing only a page or two on some subjects, but others are barely a page because of time. I don't know how long my graded essay answer was- I think I might have been too conclusive towards the end. It's weird for me to type since I am a handwriter, and it's harder to glance back at my rule statements to make sure I've addressed everything. Maybe you could shorten your answer outline? I don't know if you're doing this or not, but don't outline your rule statements- I just use quick abbreviations or a snippet of the rule, and for the facts I throw down a short quote from the question. Does that make any sense? I'm a little addled today.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by legaleasel » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:57 pm

How many questions does Themis have in their bank? I did some property ones a few days ago and the schedule included them when I did it earlier to day. Unfortunately, it only included the point I initially got on the mcs. I was tempted to go into the database and do more but wasn't sure if I would run out of the practice ones?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Hodor33 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:38 pm

My state specific Writing Workshop lady kept pronouncing Arthur as "author", and Freight as "fright". It was incredibly distracting. Maybe that's my ADD talking.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam

Post by Tubrid » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:34 pm

I'm having trouble cementing everything, as well. I don't remember all the tests, even when I recognize an issue (e.g., mutual mistake or something) in a practice essay, I always find myself referring back to the material when writing the answers. This is going to be an issue unless I just spend a couple days drilling every single test (elements) into memory using flash cards or something.

Anyone else having an issue memorizing the hundreds of elements we're encountering?

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