Lecture notes vs. CMR for barbri Forum

[ShitLawOrBust]

Will I be prepared for the exam if I memorize the lecture notes but disregard the CMRs? Right now I've been reading the CMR before each lecture, but other than that I don't pay attention to the CMRs. All of my memorization efforts are put toward the lecture notes. Is this a credited approach, or am I setting myself up for failure?

[AJS30]

I'd like to know this as well. I understand that the lectures will not go into as much detail as we did in law school, but I'm starting to worry that the lectures aren't enough. For example there is only like two things on the free exercise clause in my lecture handout, meanwhile there were a lot more things we focused on in my class, like RFRA, RLUIPA, etc. and not sure if I should be worrying about that stuff.

[LSATNightmares]

I find that it's not too difficult to do the lecture first then Conviser. You can then skim a lot of Conviser and read for the details you don't know.

[ShitLawOrBust]

I find that it's not too difficult to do the lecture first then Conviser. You can then skim a lot of Conviser and read for the details you don't know.

Cool. I'm curious if this is necessary, though. Or are the lecture notes sufficient.

[adonai]

Lecture notes aren't really enough. They might get you through the essays but it seems like the MBEs like to test you on the details.

[MoneyMay]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

[ShitLawOrBust]

Lecture notes aren't really enough. They might get you through the essays but it seems like the MBEs like to test you on the details.

Do you say this from experience? I'm doing fine on the mbe questions right now--75%+ on all--and I've just been using the lectures. Kind of worried this is just bc barbri tailors it to their materials, though

[ShitLawOrBust]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

Good to hear

[MoneyMay]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

Good to hear

Yeah I think the key is to know the lecture materials COLD, and the lecturers even say there will be shit you don't know but the lectures have enough stuff to get us through it.

And are you talking about the StudySmart questions? Even those I feel are flame... I did the Evidence workshop and the guy said 2/3 of the questions would be hearsay/ relevance/ character evidence and some of the StudySmart modules aren't even half of that stuff.

[ShitLawOrBust]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

Good to hear

Yeah I think the key is to know the lecture materials COLD, and the lecturers even say there will be shit you don't know but the lectures have enough stuff to get us through it.

And are you talking about the StudySmart questions? Even those I feel are flame... I did the Evidence workshop and the guy said 2/3 of the questions would be hearsay/ relevance/ character evidence and some of the StudySmart modules aren't even half of that stuff.

Yea the study smart 18 Q sets. And yea I just think they might be iffy bc barbri is choosing the questions that make up the sets

[MoneyMay]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

Good to hear

Yeah I think the key is to know the lecture materials COLD, and the lecturers even say there will be shit you don't know but the lectures have enough stuff to get us through it.

And are you talking about the StudySmart questions? Even those I feel are flame... I did the Evidence workshop and the guy said 2/3 of the questions would be hearsay/ relevance/ character evidence and some of the StudySmart modules aren't even half of that stuff.

Yea the study smart 18 Q sets. And yea I just think they might be iffy bc barbri is choosing the questions that make up the sets

I agree. How do you address new material in the questions not in the lecture? I have been jotting it down in the handout somewhere if I think it's important but sometimes if it's easy I read the explanation, maybe open the CMR to better understand, but don't write it down.

[ShitLawOrBust]

I know a couple people who scored very well on the MBE (above the 90th percentile) and they both used the CMR as reference only. I think when it comes time to start memorizing there is no way to really memorize more than the lectures (that is my theory anyway).

Good to hea

Yeah I think the key is to know the lecture materials COLD, and the lecturers even say there will be shit you don't know but the lectures have enough stuff to get us through it.

And are you talking about the StudySmart questions? Even those I feel are flame... I did the Evidence workshop and the guy said 2/3 of the questions would be hearsay/ relevance/ character evidence and some of the StudySmart modules aren't even half of that stuff.

Yea the study smart 18 Q sets. And yea I just think they might be iffy bc barbri is choosing the questions that make up the sets

I agree. How do you address new material in the questions not in the lecture? I have been jotting it down in the handout somewhere if I think it's important but sometimes if it's easy I read the explanation, maybe open the CMR to better understand, but don't write it down.

Sounds like we're taking the exact same approach man. Godspeed

[belowthelaw57]

I've been reading CMR and listening to lectures. I've noticed sometimes the lecturers will gloss over stuff, make a slight contradiction or oversimplification of something in the CMR if they gloss something over too quickly. Also, with state distinctions, they gloss over a LOT, and sometimes characterize them differently than in the CMR. I've found state distinctions to be the most irritating because if the CMR isn't clear and the lecture didn't mention it, there's no other place to look it up short of the internet or submitting a question to barbri (which may or may not help).

[adonai]

Lecture notes aren't really enough. They might get you through the essays but it seems like the MBEs like to test you on the details.

Do you say this from experience? I'm doing fine on the mbe questions right now--75%+ on all--and I've just been using the lectures. Kind of worried this is just bc barbri tailors it to their materials, though

I've done lots of essays so far and found that the lecture stuff was adequate (getting decent scores), unless the question involved some rarely tested issue that comes out of nowhere. As for the MBE, I've just been going off barbri's stuff and hoping it's accurate. To me it seems they test way more on details. If the real MBE is totally different, disregard my advice.

On another note, I don't see how people are doing so well on the study smart Q's. Those questions are really difficult. Getting half right in a subject as of now places you around the 8th percentile of all barbri students. I find it hard to believe people are doing unbelievably well at these. Are you looking at an outline while doing the questions or doing them cold?

[ShitLawOrBust]

Lecture notes aren't really enough. They might get you through the essays but it seems like the MBEs like to test you on the details.

Do you say this from experience? I'm doing fine on the mbe questions right now--75%+ on all--and I've just been using the lectures. Kind of worried this is just bc barbri tailors it to their materials, though

I've done lots of essays so far and found that the lecture stuff was adequate (getting decent scores), unless the question involved some rarely tested issue that comes out of nowhere. As for the MBE, I've just been going off barbri's stuff and hoping it's accurate. To me it seems they test way more on details. If the real MBE is totally different, disregard my advice.

On another note, I don't see how people are doing so well on the study smart Q's. Those questions are really difficult. Getting half right in a subject as of now places you around the 8th percentile of all barbri students. I find it hard to believe people are doing unbelievably well at these. Are you looking at an outline while doing the questions or doing them cold?

Been taking them cold under timed conditions. To be fair, I'm not doing so well on the essays

[LSATNightmares]

Lecture notes aren't really enough. They might get you through the essays but it seems like the MBEs like to test you on the details.

Do you say this from experience? I'm doing fine on the mbe questions right now--75%+ on all--and I've just been using the lectures. Kind of worried this is just bc barbri tailors it to their materials, though

I've done lots of essays so far and found that the lecture stuff was adequate (getting decent scores), unless the question involved some rarely tested issue that comes out of nowhere. As for the MBE, I've just been going off barbri's stuff and hoping it's accurate. To me it seems they test way more on details. If the real MBE is totally different, disregard my advice.

On another note, I don't see how people are doing so well on the study smart Q's. Those questions are really difficult. Getting half right in a subject as of now places you around the 8th percentile of all barbri students. I find it hard to believe people are doing unbelievably well at these. Are you looking at an outline while doing the questions or doing them cold?

I would look at the front of the MBE book for the average. The average is around 50%. That means there's a big group of people getting the average if getting slightly below puts you in the 8th percentile. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

[Stringer6]

I've been reading CMR and listening to lectures. I've noticed sometimes the lecturers will gloss over stuff, make a slight contradiction or oversimplification of something in the CMR if they gloss something over too quickly. Also, with state distinctions, they gloss over a LOT, and sometimes characterize them differently than in the CMR. I've found state distinctions to be the most irritating because if the CMR isn't clear and the lecture didn't mention it, there's no other place to look it up short of the internet or submitting a question to barbri (which may or may not help).

there are 2 other outline books -- the big MBE book and the big NY book. look there if something isn't in the CMR or the lectures. i haven't found anything like that so far.

[belowthelaw57]

I've been reading CMR and listening to lectures. I've noticed sometimes the lecturers will gloss over stuff, make a slight contradiction or oversimplification of something in the CMR if they gloss something over too quickly. Also, with state distinctions, they gloss over a LOT, and sometimes characterize them differently than in the CMR. I've found state distinctions to be the most irritating because if the CMR isn't clear and the lecture didn't mention it, there's no other place to look it up short of the internet or submitting a question to barbri (which may or may not help).

there are 2 other outline books -- the big MBE book and the big NY book. look there if something isn't in the CMR or the lectures. i haven't found anything like that so far.

Generally you're right. But Neither the Multistate book nor the New York Book have New York distinctions on the MBE Topics. The only source I've been able to find for that is the CMR.

[amk110]

I'm trying not to get bogged down by the detail in the CMR. You're going to get bogged down in all those details doing practice MBE questions (which will often present new material you didn't encounter in the lecture outlines or the CMR.) Those are usually the ones I get wrong. So I'll make a flash card for those explaining the rule.

Then before I do the next set of MBE questions I'll review my short outline (put together from the lecture outlines) and the stack of flashcards.

So I'd say stick with the lecture outlines. Use the CMR only when something from the lecture outlines doesn't make sense to you. Then do tons of practice questions. Those will teach you many of the nitty gritty details you'd otherwise find in the CMR, but you're learning them through practice rather than just glancing at them in the book.

[jd20132013]

I'd be interested in hearing someone who did this last year or before comment on the usefulness of the CMR. I too feel like just reading the CMR may not be the BEST use of time. Maybe better spent on flashcards?