Illinois Bar Exam - July 2014 Forum

[Duchovnysfan]

I figured no time like the present to start this thread for July. Repeat offender for the Illinois bar exam (it does happen shockingly) and just wanted to do roll call to see who is taking it in July and start a support group that's less annoying than a bar prep course would be

NOTE: the on time deadline to register for the exam is on Wednesday!

[dudnaito]

Hey there, 1st time applicant here. Going to take Themis for bar prep.

I realize I should know this, but do you or anyone know what percentage the various sections of the examination constitute? I thought based on reading random posts hereabouts that it's MBE: 50%, Written 50% (MEE, MPT, and 3 Illinois subject essays), but does anyone know what percentage each of the 3 parts in the "Written" exam constitutes?

Also, based on the fact that there are no minimum scores required, but rather a "combination" score minimum of 264, doing well in just the MBE gives you a ridiculous amt. of leeway in meeting the passing score, by ridiculous i mean... a virtually guaranteed pass.

Based on this post by a TLS'er (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=210339), getting into the 60th percentile of the MBE (only 6 subject multiple choice) nets you a 150 at least based on the July 2012 scale, which means that all you needed was a 114 in the "written" section, and uh... 115 scaled score for written section was the 1% percentile.

I'm not suggesting a complete gung-ho "just study for MBE" approach especially given how much time we have (87 days and counting), but I'm wondering about the viability of such a strategy and whether any substantive amount of time should be spent on the massive # of Illinois subjects if they're likely going to count for next to nothing total scaled score-wise.

Also, I'm a bit worried about the Illinois subjects. There are uh... a lot, many of which I haven't taken classes on, listed here: http://www.themisbar.com/pass-the-bar-e ... s-bar-exam. And frankly, I've been a terrible law school student so I'm constantly learning new things even just looking over Themis materials for Torts lol, so I'm not sure if I can focus too much on the Ill. subjects in addition to the MBE and MEE materials which are already pretty intimidating, at least to me.

I'd appreciate any feedback, and hope to bump this thread up and attract new posters so that we all scare the crap out of each other, and give each other fear-boners mixed with a bit of vomit and tears or as most people call it: motivation.

As a tribute to this fledgling thread, I give you the gift of "motivational penguin." http://i.imgur.com/G7UWo.gif

[homestyle28]

Checking in. Does anyone know when I should plan on starting the BarBri Online Only study course...I haven't bothered to look.

[dudnaito]

Checking in. Does anyone know when I should plan on starting the BarBri Online Only study course...I haven't bothered to look.

Why not start now? We don't have THAT much time after all. It's quite the struggle even starting your study routine imo.

Also, new info, which doesn't seem quite as optimistic as the July 2012 #'s that i posted prior. Getting a 150 MBE on the Feb. requires you to be in the 80 percentile as opposed to 60th percentile for the 2012 numbers. Did people just do terribly? Total scaled score difference between the 2 exams is a whopping 30 points. (370/340).

What accounts for the massive disparity? Not a #'s guy, so any insight would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... s-feb-2014

[bdubs]

Checking in. My study schedule for Kaplan doesn't start until May 27 and I plan on actually starting in earnest on June 1. No idea about Barbri though.

[dudnaito]

Checking in. My study schedule for Kaplan doesn't start until May 27 and I plan on actually starting in earnest on June 1. No idea about Barbri though.

Well, check back on forums June 1, and tell us how it's going.

[Duchovnysfan]

Hey there, 1st time applicant here. Going to take Themis for bar prep.

I realize I should know this, but do you or anyone know what percentage the various sections of the examination constitute? I thought based on reading random posts hereabouts that it's MBE: 50%, Written 50% (MEE, MPT, and 3 Illinois subject essays), but does anyone know what percentage each of the 3 parts in the "Written" exam constitutes?

Also, based on the fact that there are no minimum scores required, but rather a "combination" score minimum of 264, doing well in just the MBE gives you a ridiculous amt. of leeway in meeting the passing score, by ridiculous i mean... a virtually guaranteed pass.

Based on this post by a TLS'er (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=210339), getting into the 60th percentile of the MBE (only 6 subject multiple choice) nets you a 150 at least based on the July 2012 scale, which means that all you needed was a 114 in the "written" section, and uh... 115 scaled score for written section was the 1% percentile.

I'm not suggesting a complete gung-ho "just study for MBE" approach especially given how much time we have (87 days and counting), but I'm wondering about the viability of such a strategy and whether any substantive amount of time should be spent on the massive # of Illinois subjects if they're likely going to count for next to nothing total scaled score-wise.

Also, I'm a bit worried about the Illinois subjects. There are uh... a lot, many of which I haven't taken classes on, listed here: http://www.themisbar.com/pass-the-bar-e ... s-bar-exam. And frankly, I've been a terrible law school student so I'm constantly learning new things even just looking over Themis materials for Torts lol, so I'm not sure if I can focus too much on the Ill. subjects in addition to the MBE and MEE materials which are already pretty intimidating, at least to me.

I'd appreciate any feedback, and hope to bump this thread up and attract new posters so that we all scare the crap out of each other, and give each other fear-boners mixed with a bit of vomit and tears or as most people call it: motivation.

As a tribute to this fledgling thread, I give you the gift of "motivational penguin." http://i.imgur.com/G7UWo.gif

Motivational Penguin is actually quite awesome! I saved that GIF I'll keep it real, July is going to be my third time taking this. I have known people taking it 3 times and finally passing it on the third time. The first time, I had no clue what the eff I was doing so I did horrible. The second time, I got my act together, did a lot better on the writing portions but blew the MBE. I chopped my point deficit in half (32 to 16pts) Both times I worked full time (approx. 45-50 hours/wk) so I am really hopeful this time. For me this time around, I'll spend the majority of my time working the MBE. However, since it is your first time, focus on everything!! I think Themis is fantastic! The second time I used it, I found it to be extremely helpful and definitely use the support system they offer you, like the personal attorney adviser, the message center and the Director who calls from time to time to check in (she is awesome btw so definitely reach out to her!) If had another free repeat course with Themis, I'd do it again, but I don't have $1500 to spare so I am going to use what I have from last time.

As for the IL bar, here is how it is structured.....

Day 1:
Morning - 3 Illinois Essays, MPT
Afternoon - 6 MEE Qs

Day 2: MBE

MBE is 50% and the rest is 50% so they are given equal so I wouldn't blow off one part of the exam over the other. All the essays except for the MPT are out of 5 points scaled. The MPT is worth 7 points. A lot of people like to blow off the MPT, DO NOT BLOW IT OFF! It is easy points because it is all about writing a certain way, you do not have to remember any outside knowledge, it is all there! All it is takes is a few practice times and Themis does a great job for MPT prep. The first time I blew off the prep for the MPT and got a 3/7, the second time I actually used it and got a 6/7. So these are easy points to get!!

I know the IL subject list is scary and overwhelming since it is so long! Themis sends you a chart of how often subjects are tested within the last decade or so during the first wk of the course. To keep it all straight, I made a list of what was exclusively IEE subjects and what was MEE subjects. It helped me not be so overwhelmed. Themis is also going to harp on making one page review sheets for the IL subjects, DO THEM!!! I did not do them the first time I did miserably on the essays, the second time, I actually did and it helped me so much. It nice just to review 1-3 pages of material at the last minute rather than seeing people studying from a thick review book. Here are a few constants about the IL bar....Civil Procedure will always be on the IEE and MEE! Also, this is the last test that Commercial Paper will be a testable subject for the MEE, it was not on the February bar so it may appear on the July exam.

I have no advice on the MBE b/c I suck at it and I am trying to figure it out still but essays, I can definitely help out in that dept

A lot of people will talk about how much they need to get right and try to play a numbers game! Please please do NOT do this, you will drive yourself crazy and distract yourself from preparing. The test is curved so a hard number of getting X of questions on the MBE is ridiculous. I hear that for every 4 questions, if you are getting 3 right, you're on a good track.

Finally, trust the process and schedule. I can definitely vouch for Themis on this. There is a method to their madness. So it is crucial that you stay on its schedule because it keeps you accountable and gets you through the content without being so overwhelmed.

PS: For themis, use 2x speed for the lectures.......it is a difference maker

[Duchovnysfan]

Checking in. Does anyone know when I should plan on starting the BarBri Online Only study course...I haven't bothered to look.

I never used BarBri but my guess would be most law schools in IL finish the semester right around the same time, so it is always the Monday after graduation that it seems to start. Just a guess though. It may be different now.

[dudnaito]

Checking in. Does anyone know when I should plan on starting the BarBri Online Only study course...I haven't bothered to look.

I never used BarBri but my guess would be most law schools in IL finish the semester right around the same time, so it is always the Monday after graduation that it seems to start. Just a guess though. It may be different now.

Thanks for the info. and I'm sure you'll pass this time. Multiple takers do badly primarily because they do the same thing over and over again, just over a longer period of time.

A question though (btw i take themis), what do you do when Themis's outlines give you majority rule, minority rule, restatements, modern trend, etc... about causation in negligence claims for example. I basically memorized everything, took a practice essay, could've written probably 3-4 pages on just that, but the model essay was around 3-4 sentences and literally just says "forseeability is the issue," whereas the outlines talk about multiple different interpretations of forseeability and how some jurisdictions don't even view it that way, blah blah blah blah.

And I've gone through a ton of the MBE for at least Con Law, and Torts, and I don't recall them ever asking for minority rules unless it's something glaringly necessary like comparative fault and contributive negligence jurisdiction differences.

[Duchovnysfan]

Thanks for the info. and I'm sure you'll pass this time. Multiple takers do badly primarily because they do the same thing over and over again, just over a longer period of time.

A question though (btw i take themis), what do you do when Themis's outlines give you majority rule, minority rule, restatements, modern trend, etc... about causation in negligence claims for example. I basically memorized everything, took a practice essay, could've written probably 3-4 pages on just that, but the model essay was around 3-4 sentences and literally just says "forseeability is the issue," whereas the outlines talk about multiple different interpretations of forseeability and how some jurisdictions don't even view it that way, blah blah blah blah.

And I've gone through a ton of the MBE for at least Con Law, and Torts, and I don't recall them ever asking for minority rules unless it's something glaringly necessary like comparative fault and contributive negligence jurisdiction differences.

No problem! Are you looking at the Themis outlines or the lecture handouts? The outlines are more for a reference. If there is something you don't understand in the handout the outline definitely elaborate more. The handout is really highlighting common concepts that come up on the bar exam. For the MEE, they just want the majority rule; everything else is irrelevant unless there is a relevant exception to a rule. IEE, pretty much the same, but they definitely want you to get in those Illinois distinctions in your responses.

When it comes to Torts, on the MBE 1/2 of torts Qs is negligence. Just to be safe, know EVERYTHING about negligence in that instance. If they want to ask you something about comparative fault or contributory negligence, they'll definitely mention it in the call of the question. The MBE Qs on Themis are pretty close to the real thing, just FYI

[dudnaito]

Thanks for the info. and I'm sure you'll pass this time. Multiple takers do badly primarily because they do the same thing over and over again, just over a longer period of time.

A question though (btw i take themis), what do you do when Themis's outlines give you majority rule, minority rule, restatements, modern trend, etc... about causation in negligence claims for example. I basically memorized everything, took a practice essay, could've written probably 3-4 pages on just that, but the model essay was around 3-4 sentences and literally just says "forseeability is the issue," whereas the outlines talk about multiple different interpretations of forseeability and how some jurisdictions don't even view it that way, blah blah blah blah.

And I've gone through a ton of the MBE for at least Con Law, and Torts, and I don't recall them ever asking for minority rules unless it's something glaringly necessary like comparative fault and contributive negligence jurisdiction differences.

No problem! Are you looking at the Themis outlines or the lecture handouts? The outlines are more for a reference. If there is something you don't understand in the handout the outline definitely elaborate more. The handout is really highlighting common concepts that come up on the bar exam. For the MEE, they just want the majority rule; everything else is irrelevant unless there is a relevant exception to a rule. IEE, pretty much the same, but they definitely want you to get in those Illinois distinctions in your responses.

When it comes to Torts, on the MBE 1/2 of torts Qs is negligence. Just to be safe, know EVERYTHING about negligence in that instance. If they want to ask you something about comparative fault or contributory negligence, they'll definitely mention it in the call of the question. The MBE Qs on Themis are pretty close to the real thing, just FYI

Don't want to sound like a freak, but i've borderline memorized these 79 page outlines at least for 2 MBE subjects so far. Like if someone were to give me an index, i'm pretty sure i could 85-90% recreate the themis outline lol. Oh.. so I guess I have been going overkill. Nice to know, cause i can't possibly keep up this pace. Thanks for the info, i was getting burnt out after only 9 days of studying lol.

Oh and if our gameplan composes of Themis, Adaptibar, and the Kaplan MBE's, i'm guessing there'll be a lot of overlap huh?

Oh, and 1 last question, do we know our exam location yet? Can't find this info. Gonna try to airbnb a place a week before the test and maybe take some practice tests around there just to get used to the ambience or smell or.. somethin.

[Rosebud523]

I'm taking it for the third time too. My biggest problem is that I don't really want to be a lawyer. I was the most motivated the first time I took it, (last summer) but I still didn't study as much as other people because I have never really been the type to study much. I am not sure I even know how to properly study.

The second time..I didn't mentally prepare myself to retake it, and I literally didn't study at all besides do around 500 Barbri MBE questions online. The first time I failed by 9 points and the second time I only failed by 6. I hadn't even looked at any essay subjects and thought I had forgotten everything, but apparently I have some information in my brain somewhere.

I decided on May 1 (the deadline for repeat takers) to just go ahead and take it this summer..originally I had no intentions of taking it again for a while, but I decided that it is better to do it now before they add civil procedure to the mbe and raise the passing score. I only got the Barbri February class for free because I didn't pass in July. so I won't be enrolled in any course this time. I am obviously mad at myself that I didn't take advantage of it when I had it in February.

I still have my July 2013 books, but I sent back the February 2014 ones. I am obviously very nervous about self studying as I couldn't even study with the guided and structured schedule of a prep course. This is mostly just a rant but I'm glad there are other repeaters here and hopefully we can try and motivate each other to stay on track.

Also if anyone has any suggestions, I will gladly take them. Unfortunately I don't have the money to shell out on tutoring or more prep courses...as much as I wish I could just enroll in something so I have some accountability.

[dudnaito]

Also if anyone has any suggestions, I will gladly take them. Unfortunately I don't have the money to shell out on tutoring or more prep courses...as much as I wish I could just enroll in something so I have some accountability.

Don't really know what to tell you man, what would even compel you to snap out of it, or even whether it's advisable that you continue down this path if your motivation level is so low not just for the exam but the occupation itself.

Risking the possibility of getting ripped to shreds in TLS, I don't really want to be an attorney either. It's just that a number of circumstances combined with personality, skill set, etc... made this a rational and very possibly lucrative choice down the road. And re: enrolling in prep courses as a way to establish some accountability, I don't think that's the way it works for the most part. People who enroll in prep courses saying this exact reason are usually the ones who were the most disciplined in law school imo anyway, while those who didn't work hard in school never went to bar prep classes either. I don't think it would help you too much re: accountability.

It's actually pretty amazing that you're not too far off the mark of a passing score despite only studying with 500 MBE questions. Maybe just use that "almost there, I can't give up a 100 yards from the finish line" mentality to take it home.

[Duchovnysfan]

Thanks for the info. and I'm sure you'll pass this time. Multiple takers do badly primarily because they do the same thing over and over again, just over a longer period of time.

A question though (btw i take themis), what do you do when Themis's outlines give you majority rule, minority rule, restatements, modern trend, etc... about causation in negligence claims for example. I basically memorized everything, took a practice essay, could've written probably 3-4 pages on just that, but the model essay was around 3-4 sentences and literally just says "forseeability is the issue," whereas the outlines talk about multiple different interpretations of forseeability and how some jurisdictions don't even view it that way, blah blah blah blah.

And I've gone through a ton of the MBE for at least Con Law, and Torts, and I don't recall them ever asking for minority rules unless it's something glaringly necessary like comparative fault and contributive negligence jurisdiction differences.

No problem! Are you looking at the Themis outlines or the lecture handouts? The outlines are more for a reference. If there is something you don't understand in the handout the outline definitely elaborate more. The handout is really highlighting common concepts that come up on the bar exam. For the MEE, they just want the majority rule; everything else is irrelevant unless there is a relevant exception to a rule. IEE, pretty much the same, but they definitely want you to get in those Illinois distinctions in your responses.

When it comes to Torts, on the MBE 1/2 of torts Qs is negligence. Just to be safe, know EVERYTHING about negligence in that instance. If they want to ask you something about comparative fault or contributory negligence, they'll definitely mention it in the call of the question. The MBE Qs on Themis are pretty close to the real thing, just FYI

Don't want to sound like a freak, but i've borderline memorized these 79 page outlines at least for 2 MBE subjects so far. Like if someone were to give me an index, i'm pretty sure i could 85-90% recreate the themis outline lol. Oh.. so I guess I have been going overkill. Nice to know, cause i can't possibly keep up this pace. Thanks for the info, i was getting burnt out after only 9 days of studying lol.

Oh and if our gameplan composes of Themis, Adaptibar, and the Kaplan MBE's, i'm guessing there'll be a lot of overlap huh?

Oh, and 1 last question, do we know our exam location yet? Can't find this info. Gonna try to airbnb a place a week before the test and maybe take some practice tests around there just to get used to the ambience or smell or.. somethin.

Last July it was UIC Pavilion and the Forum, February was in the Forum so I think they may do what they did last July. The Pavilion blows....I have the wonderful pleasuring of having a M last name and got assigned there.... there is nothing nearby, I felt the facilities just seemed run down. Although the Forum was fantastic. I felt more comfortable there and there is places for lunch all within walking distance. They'll announce it in June where the test will be.

Bar exam prep is a test of endurance, so don't burn out too quickly! I know the lectures are miserable but do those it is a review of what you are reading in the outlines and pick out the relevant stuff for the bar exam. Outlines are just merely reference points for your studying. For the review outlines you make, it is just basically black letter law in about 1-3 pages.

Finally, I think Themis is enough for you, they have about I think 2200 MBE practice questions, that is more than enough and I remember they were really close to the real thing. Using Adaptibar, Kaplan seems unnecessary at this point. If you somehow finish all those Qs on Themis, then maybe get those but initially don't drop anymore $$$, I really do believe Themis has everything in its review course to help you out.

[Duchovnysfan]

I'm taking it for the third time too. My biggest problem is that I don't really want to be a lawyer. I was the most motivated the first time I took it, (last summer) but I still didn't study as much as other people because I have never really been the type to study much. I am not sure I even know how to properly study.

The second time..I didn't mentally prepare myself to retake it, and I literally didn't study at all besides do around 500 Barbri MBE questions online. The first time I failed by 9 points and the second time I only failed by 6. I hadn't even looked at any essay subjects and thought I had forgotten everything, but apparently I have some information in my brain somewhere.

I decided on May 1 (the deadline for repeat takers) to just go ahead and take it this summer..originally I had no intentions of taking it again for a while, but I decided that it is better to do it now before they add civil procedure to the mbe and raise the passing score. I only got the Barbri February class for free because I didn't pass in July. so I won't be enrolled in any course this time. I am obviously mad at myself that I didn't take advantage of it when I had it in February.

I still have my July 2013 books, but I sent back the February 2014 ones. I am obviously very nervous about self studying as I couldn't even study with the guided and structured schedule of a prep course. This is mostly just a rant but I'm glad there are other repeaters here and hopefully we can try and motivate each other to stay on track.

Also if anyone has any suggestions, I will gladly take them. Unfortunately I don't have the money to shell out on tutoring or more prep courses...as much as I wish I could just enroll in something so I have some accountability.

awww I feel like if you give this your best effort, I am sure you will pass this time around. You are so close, has to be a difference of a few MBE questions or 2 essays. I am self studying because I just cannot shell out another $1500 for Themis. However, I definitely saved everything I did for the February bar and just got a couple of books to practice MBE questions, I am spending less than $100 on this. I found them all on eBay and friends that want to get rid of their MBE books. The fact you have the July 2013 books is fine, the feb books would probably be the same since a year to bar review is July + February.

I know when I took it the first time, I was really stressed and had such a bad attitude towards the exam. Lots of mind games. When I realized that I could not afford to do that again for February, I really put myself through an attitude adjustment and seriously I felt like I did better because of it. I felt better about it and it showed because even though I failed I got closer to 264 (first time I was off by 32 pts and second time 16 pts away) I really do believe positive thinking can go a long way, you can do this especially since you are so close!

For self studying, I just made a very rough schedule for my first month of studying which is all MBE, then in June and beyond I'll start adding the essay subjects in there to review.

I also have lean sheets for IL bar and they did a great job on most of the subjects. If you want, I can e-mail it to you! Just msg me your e-mail address!

[dudnaito]

Anyone else having issues with getting the id/pw for the examsoft laptop program?

[homestyle28]

Anyone else having issues with getting the id/pw for the examsoft laptop program?

I got an email from softtest on May 15, with "SofTest Installation & Registration Instructions for ILBAR" as subject. Just completed the Softtest setup without any issues.

[dudnaito]

Anyone else having issues with getting the id/pw for the examsoft laptop program?

I got an email from softtest on May 15, with "SofTest Installation & Registration Instructions for ILBAR" as subject. Just completed the Softtest setup without any issues.

Yeah, no worries, Ill. Bar said they'll take care of the remaining stragglers in one swoop this coming Monday.

[bdubs]

Can someone explain to me how the July Illinois bar exam has an 85- 90% pass rate, but is an "equated test" in which the scores are scaled and you need a 66% (264 out of 400) to pass? What are the scores scaled to? Is there a guaranteed pass/fail rate (curve) or is there some sort of absolute value that determines who passes and who doesn't? The scoring for this thing is pretty confusing to me.

[dudnaito]

"The July bar exam venue(s) will be announced in early Spring." Still? Do we know exactly where the test is? Thanks

[Rosebud523]

Does anyone have a copy of the Illinois paced program they wouldn't mind sending me?

[Duchovnysfan]

"The July bar exam venue(s) will be announced in early Spring." Still? Do we know exactly where the test is? Thanks

Probably going to be at UIC Forum and Pavilion again this year. The hotel block they have going is very close to UIC so I imagine they would not go too far from that. You will find out for sure on your eligibility form because it will say your test center assignment

[Duchovnysfan]

Does anyone have a copy of the Illinois paced program they wouldn't mind sending me?

If it is not in reference to Themis chances are I don't have it

[Rosebud523]

Nah..BarBri...I still have my barbri books so the themis one probably wouldn't help me. Thanks though!

[dudnaito]

Haven't been here in awhile, but I hope everyone's on the straight and narrow. Just got a sweet pad for a week on AirBnB and should be in Chicago 5 days before the test. I definitely haven't done nearly as much as I've wanted to... actually more like 50% of what I wanted to accomplish, but this test is pretty generous with the min. score, so I think I'll be "ok."

How's everyone else doing?