definition of "employment" for bar application Forum

[objctnyrhnr]

So the bar application asks to list everywhere one has been employed

Does this include the following (if you're not positive but you think so, please say probably):

1. Internships done while in LS for no pay

2. Internships done while in LS for school-funded pay

3. Volunteer work done, full time, before LS, with stipend

4. odd jobs where you were paid in cash

5. short-term, full time job where you were paid in cash

6. And this is just a question--would you ever get questions for not having enough W.E. down there? example -- you clearly took a year off between college and LS. Why is there no employment listed for that period?


If I leave the volunteer position off in #3 (because I might not want to go into why I left), and the bar people decide is it employment, what is the worst case scenario? they ask me why I didn't mention it, I say it was volunteer (and show them evidence that it was volunteer), they say okay?...or is it potentially worse?

[It's A Lion]

It generally does not hurt to over disclose. Under-disclosing is generally what the bar does not take kindly to.

[objctnyrhnr]

It generally does not hurt to over disclose. Under-disclosing is generally what the bar does not take kindly to.

Can you elaborate on what they mean by "does not take kindly to"?

[It's A Lion]

It generally does not hurt to over disclose. Under-disclosing is generally what the bar does not take kindly to.

Can you elaborate on what they mean by "does not take kindly to"?

They're are looking for willful omissions. Why did you leave out x internship? Is it because you were fired or did bad work, etc...

Call the office and ask what you should include.

[objctnyrhnr]

so people put their internships on there?

[ggocat]

If your bar does not define employment, my common sense definition says employment requires payment by the employer directly to you. However, if you listed any "job" on a resume ever, I'd include it on your bar application.

[objctnyrhnr]

How much research do they do for omitted jobs? how could they really even research this?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Does your bar provide instructions to the instructions, so to speak? My state instructions specified, "Legal Internships should be included under Legal Employment, even though you may not have been monetarily compensated for your activities." I included everything you listed in your original post. And I don't think you can leave a job off because you don't want to explain why you left - that's kind of the point of character and fitness, to find out whether there are any signs in your past history that you wouldn't be a fit attorney. (Leaving a job, though, would be really unlikely to be a problem - lots of people leave jobs that don't work out - unless you left because you were embezzling client funds, which would be a huge problem.)

As for underdisclosing, everything I've ever heard anyone (including bar association reps) say about the bar, anywhere, ever, is that failure to disclose something negative in your past is a much bigger problem and much more likely to prevent your admission than whatever the past negative thing was. Leaving stuff off is just a really really bad idea.

[sidhesadie]

Yeah, in my state's bar exam instructions it says list every job, internship, externship, or volunteer position.

If yours doesn't specify, I would just call and ask. I've had to call 3x already, they are always really nice here, although sometimes you have to try a few times to get through.

[Bikeflip]

So the bar application asks to list everywhere one has been employed

Does this include the following (if you're not positive but you think so, please say probably):

1. Internships done while in LS for no pay

2. Internships done while in LS for school-funded pay

3. Volunteer work done, full time, before LS, with stipend

4. odd jobs where you were paid in cash

5. short-term, full time job where you were paid in cash

6. And this is just a question--would you ever get questions for not having enough W.E. down there? example -- you clearly took a year off between college and LS. Why is there no employment listed for that period?


If I leave the volunteer position off in #3 (because I might not want to go into why I left), and the bar people decide is it employment, what is the worst case scenario? they ask me why I didn't mention it, I say it was volunteer (and show them evidence that it was volunteer), they say okay?...or is it potentially worse?

Your application may get held up for months, and you may have to explain a lot more than you bargained for. When in doubt, disclose and document. When in serious doubt, lawyer up.

For my bar application, I had to talk about why I got in trouble at an old jerb, and it turned out fine.

[kaiser]

You also have to include school clinic experience under "employment" (at least in NY). I didn't realize this and it held up my application a bit.

[objctnyrhnr]

wow, okay. guys, thank you for all the advice. I had no idea that employment was this broadly defined. i just called the bar person and she was like legit say every single thing you did.

had it not been for this thread, I wouldn't have thought twice about leaving most of my #'s (above) out.

thanks!

[dudnaito]

wow, okay. guys, thank you for all the advice. I had no idea that employment was this broadly defined. i just called the bar person and she was like legit say every single thing you did.

had it not been for this thread, I wouldn't have thought twice about leaving most of my #'s (above) out.

thanks!

Yeah, it's that broadly defined; pretty crazy. Then again, i needed 4 pages for places that i've lived in including that motel in the outskirts of Atlanta i lived in for 3 months, eating eggs out of the motel drawers cause there wasn't any space left in the uber-mini-fridge lol

[newyorker88]

wow, okay. guys, thank you for all the advice. I had no idea that employment was this broadly defined. i just called the bar person and she was like legit say every single thing you did.

Is it everything legal or every job you've ever had? If the latter, I feel like that would take forever to compile.