July 2016 California Bar Exam Forum

[cal_pushed]

First graders failed me, second graders passed me. Aggregated scores "operative" not enough to get over the 1440 hump, with a 1598 Scaled MBE. Does anyone know what the process is regarding "Request for Reconsideration?" Specifically, time-line, what is involved, how the decision is communicated. Also, has anyone heard of anyone being successful on such an appeal? Thanks.

[maxmartin]

First graders failed me, second graders passed me. Aggregated scores "operative" not enough to get over the 1440 hump, with a 1598 Scaled MBE. Does anyone know what the process is regarding "Request for Reconsideration?" Specifically, time-line, what is involved, how the decision is communicated. Also, has anyone heard of anyone being successful on such an appeal? Thanks.

You can't unless you can establish (1.) An arithmetical error in the calculation of the total written score from the final grades assigned to the written questions or in the calculation of the total MBE score; or
(2.) A clerical error. Basically, they will only reconsider if your points tally is wrong.

[maxmartin]

First graders failed me, second graders passed me. Aggregated scores "operative" not enough to get over the 1440 hump, with a 1598 Scaled MBE. Does anyone know what the process is regarding "Request for Reconsideration?" Specifically, time-line, what is involved, how the decision is communicated. Also, has anyone heard of anyone being successful on such an appeal? Thanks.

Essay grading is so random. Imagine if your second grader is your first grader, your name will be on the passing list . With 1598 MBE, you are almost guaranteed Auto Pass in July 2017 exam.

[stv]

Does anybody know if we can get waived into NY or Hawaii with our CA Bar score? Or do these states require us to sit for the exam in their states?

NY definitely requires you to sit for their bar. Hawaii I'm not sure, you might be able to waive.

I think you can transfer MBE scores to the UBE, hence NY.

[Yukos]

You can transfer an MBE score to a UBE jurisdiction, but you will still need to sit for the essay part. Also, if you do that the resulting score will only be good in that jurisdiction -- you can't transfer the UBE score to other UBE states. To be able to transfer a UBE score to other UBE states you need to take both parts (MBE and essay) "concurrently."

[xjustyoursmile]

Out of curiosity:

I passed, so I don't know my actual score breakdown, but from seeing where I can waive in, I know that my MBE score is between 133 and 145. Does this mean I scored lower than average / average on the MBE and I scored above average on essays? I've been trying to figure out the numbers game for the past few days. This is merely because I want to know if my instincts were correct during the exam in terms of what I did well on and what I didn't do as well on (for example, feeling really good about PTA, but not feeling good about MBE morning session).

[jbagelboy]

Out of curiosity:

I passed, so I don't know my actual score breakdown, but from seeing where I can waive in, I know that my MBE score is between 133 and 145. Does this mean I scored lower than average / average on the MBE and I scored above average on essays? I've been trying to figure out the numbers game for the past few days. This is merely because I want to know if my instincts were correct during the exam in terms of what I did well on and what I didn't do as well on (for example, feeling really good about PTA, but not feeling good about MBE morning session).

how are you seeing where you can waive in.

[SFSpartan]

Out of curiosity:

I passed, so I don't know my actual score breakdown, but from seeing where I can waive in, I know that my MBE score is between 133 and 145. Does this mean I scored lower than average / average on the MBE and I scored above average on essays? I've been trying to figure out the numbers game for the past few days. This is merely because I want to know if my instincts were correct during the exam in terms of what I did well on and what I didn't do as well on (for example, feeling really good about PTA, but not feeling good about MBE morning session).

how are you seeing where you can waive in.

If you order an MBE score report from NCBE, they tell you where you can waive in. DC requires a 133 and MN requires a 145, which is how OP got those ranges.

[cal_pushed]

Considering a tutor. Prior CBX grader. Anyone who has used a grader, curious on your experiences? Worth the cost?

[LockBox]

Considering a tutor. Prior CBX grader. Anyone who has used a grader, curious on your experiences? Worth the cost?

Depends on your strengths, weaknesses and how you did. To me, a grader (prior bar grader is better) has the advantage that there are fresh eyes on your work product (e.g., did you respond to the call of the question, are your rule statements tight?) rather than you looking at the model/state bar answers and comparing. I would gather that this would be the same result, whether it was for essays or PTs. So I would say, for these reasons alone, yes they are worth the cost.

I'm not so sure what the benefits are re: the substantive law. I learned a little, sure, but I think I could have done without it. I passed though, so I won't complain, I guess. If you weren't close to passing (in my mind that's outside to well outside 100 points) then a tutor who goes over substantive law, how to write an essay, attacking MBE's etc. may be worth it. However, just having a tutor give feedback on a lot of your written work, and you putting in a lot of work as well could be key if you were somewhat close.

Obviously, it's very person-specific so ymmv.

[rcharter1978]

Considering a tutor. Prior CBX grader. Anyone who has used a grader, curious on your experiences? Worth the cost?

For me, absolutely.

A lot of people can tell you what needs to go into an essay, but with limited time it was important for me to know what I could leave out of an essay and where I needed to focus my time.

I also think that it was important for me to get the perspective of someone who has actually read an essay in a few minutes and what they, as a grader would look for.

I get the impression it's a very fast read so I needed ALL his tricks and tips.

To.echo lockbox....he wasn't my go to guy for substantive law. But I think that if you performed well in law school you already have a method for learning substantive law.

[Rap Genius]

Did not make the cut... Any suggestions? I'll be moving along to the February 2017 thread.

Essay 1: 60 (Civil Procedure)
Essay 2: 55 (Real Property)
Essay 3: 55 (Contracts)
Essay 4: 65 (Constitutional Law)
Essay 5: 60 (Community Property)
Essay 6: 60 (Professional Responsibility)
PTA Task: 55 (Persuasie Letter: Real Poperty)
PTB Task: 55 (Objective Memorandum: Remedies)

Raw Written: 575
Scaled Written: 1342.2643
Scaled MBE: 1343.00000

Total Scaled Score 1342.5218

[a male human]

Did not make the cut... Any suggestions? I'll be moving along to the February 2017 thread.

Essay 1: 60 (Civil Procedure)
Essay 2: 55 (Real Property)
Essay 3: 55 (Contracts)
Essay 4: 65 (Constitutional Law)
Essay 5: 60 (Community Property)
Essay 6: 60 (Professional Responsibility)
PTA Task: 55 (Persuasie Letter: Real Poperty)
PTB Task: 55 (Objective Memorandum: Remedies)

Raw Written: 575
Scaled Written: 1342.2643
Scaled MBE: 1343.00000

Total Scaled Score 1342.5218

Your consistent essay scores (ranging 55-65, mostly 60) and low MBE score suggest two things to me:
- You didn't know the issues or the law well enough.
- However, your essay structure was probably fine.

I would suggest being exposed to a lot of essays next time. Make sure you're doing clean IRAC. Each subject has its own quirks and way to organize and approach. Get feedback from sample/model answers.

Your PTs should also be improved, for sure. Big points come from here. Shoot for 65+! Maybe set aside time every Tuesday or whenever to do one an review.

[Rap Genius]

Re-reads killed me. Had a majority of 65s that were brought down to 62.5s or lower as well as a 70 that was brought down to a 67.5. I have no idea what to make of my scaled MBE. I took Themis and was meeting their target scores as well as scoring higher on the MBE midterm than the average. It says my scaled MBE was a 1364 can any one tell me, even if its just a rough estimate, what the raw of that would be? Did I completely bomb the MBE? Thanks guys.

1364 would be 119 raw. Admissions.calbar.ca.gov/portals/4/documents/unsuccessful_info.pdf

Just saw that that scale was for 2001. Anyone have any idea if its still accurate?

It's useful as an estimate. The scaling is different for each exam, and I'm not sure if there are other tables out there.

^ that. Sorry, shoulda put a disclaimer woops

In 2001 a 1364 would be about 128 raw using this formula: (8.4589)(MBE raw ) + 282.87. In 2011, I believe your score would be given by a chart (with no equation although it happens to be non-linear) in which 1364 is 119 raw as stated above.

Does anybody else have other more recent formulas or tables that came in the pass/fail letter that we can use to approximate raw scores?

[LockBox]

Re-reads killed me. Had a majority of 65s that were brought down to 62.5s or lower as well as a 70 that was brought down to a 67.5. I have no idea what to make of my scaled MBE. I took Themis and was meeting their target scores as well as scoring higher on the MBE midterm than the average. It says my scaled MBE was a 1364 can any one tell me, even if its just a rough estimate, what the raw of that would be? Did I completely bomb the MBE? Thanks guys.

1364 would be 119 raw. Admissions.calbar.ca.gov/portals/4/documents/unsuccessful_info.pdf

Just saw that that scale was for 2001. Anyone have any idea if its still accurate?

It's useful as an estimate. The scaling is different for each exam, and I'm not sure if there are other tables out there.

^ that. Sorry, shoulda put a disclaimer woops

In 2001 a 1364 would be about 128 raw using this formula: (8.4589)(MBE raw ) + 282.87. In 2011, I believe your score would be given by a chart (with no equation although it happens to be non-linear) in which 1364 is 119 raw as stated above.

Does anybody else have other more recent formulas or tables that came in the pass/fail letter that we can use to approximate raw scores?

I understand the need to analyze, especially if you're trying to determine what went wrong in order to correct that issue.

My advice would be, after obsessing about it for however long, you stop spending time looking back and instead look forward. There are about two months left and my suggestion would be to think about February.

Just based on your scores my assessment would be everything is a *little* low. Therefore, everything needs to be improved. My suggestions:

Essays: between now and CBX, you should be writing at least 2 full essays a day. Each. Day. If you can purchase a review package from a former bar grader (whether its 6 essays or 20 or 30 etc.) have it critiqued by them. Then read the released answers from the bar (both of them) then read high passing answers on baressays. Oddly enough, I found that the work I did in my first three weeks of prep carried me more than the last leg where I was somewhat fatigued. 2 per day.

MBE: I would recommend 50 per day. Do what everyone says, make sure you understand the ones you get wrong. I would do 10 at a time then take a break. Timing was never an issue so I did them untimed. Additionally, I had a word doc where I wrote down succinct to-the-point rule statements. Write them, don't copy paste. I did all of my MBE work solely on Adaptibar and recommend them.

PT: This came easily to me so i'm at a loss for recommending solutions. Read A Male Human's 17 page primer - there are some good stuff in there. How does one screw up a PT? Either they don't follow the memo, or the style is off, in my opinion. Therefore, what I did was just took the barbri book and took 15 minutes to read the opening memo/brief/instructions and just outline my response. Secondly, I read the model answers and really looked at the style it was written in.

The bar graders are the gatekeepers so look at it from their view - when they are deciding who to let into the profession and who to reject, they can only base this on what you've written on the page. So, you need to show that you're already an attorney on the bar. I remember you were talking about group essay writing etc. This exam involves knowing the law, but it is more so about applying it to a set of facts. And you can only be in the proper shape, much like running a marathon, by doing it over and over. Good luck.

[rcharter1978]

Lockbox is right about a lot of things in his post, but let me just double the advice that you get started now. The test is ONLY 2 months away.

And PTs. I know I keep harping on it, but PTs are such "gimme" points. Each is worth 2 essays and the February exam is the last time you'll have 2 PTs (which can help bolster 4 essays).

PTs give you all the law you need, all the information you need. They are a pain in the ass and hard as hell, but you don't have to memorize much of anything to succeed.

I'm sure a male human has great materials, but the red PT book is a great source for getting a good method in place for attacking the PT. And that's what I needed.

My tutor also had a good PT lecture and I used his methods. But if you're wanting to save some $$ try the red PT book first.

[phan]

Anyone know when they'll be releasing model answers?

[LockBox]

Anyone know when they'll be releasing model answers?

They are up. http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals ... s1-6_R.pdf

[Genius]

Anyone know if a party who is in default still has the right to attend the deposition of the party's co-defendant being deposed?

I know that a party in default is cutoff from participating in litigation but would like some definite legal authority on attending deposition.

[iliketurtles123]

Might be a stupid question but I can't really find the packet they mailed me and don't feel like navigating the horrendous bar site.


So I passed the bar exam and passed all the requirements on the site (moral char, etc.).
I sent in my "bar oath card" which was notarized and signed.

Is that it? Do I just wait for confirmation?

edit: found the answer from a friend. no confirmation. you need to search for your name on their website.