Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[champ33]

For people who took Milestone #1 today, did you take the full 90 minutes? I took less and could have gone back to review but was too lazy. I was around the average score, and I think that's fine. Even quite a bit less than average really is fine considering that a large majority of people pass in NY.

Also, I agree with whoever said it's worth going through the large property outline, at least as far as the sections on mortgages, deeds, recording statutes, RAP because so many questions seem to be focused on those details. I don't know if that's the case on the bar or just the questions Themis is presenting.

[071816]

I'm finding these Anindita Dutta essay workshops to be pretty useless

[kapital98]

For those of you that are a behind in preparation, does Themis automatically catch you up by increasing the workload each day, or do we just work ahead? Thanks.

Themis is weird. They accelerate all of your regular assignments (lectures, readings) but expect you to take the graded essays and milestone exams when everybody else does. So, for example, I am in the middle of my property lectures. However, I had a milestone exam scheduled for today. If I took the milestone exam I would have flunked 30% of it because I don't know property! The same thing happened last week when I was assigned a graded essay on Wills & Estates even though I haven't taken the Wills & Estates lectures.

Themis' scheduler is strange too. I don't think it recognizes weekends. It ramps up all of my activities but will sometimes put a huge amount of work on Saturday and Sunday. Inexplicably, it will give me days off on Thursday or Tuesday.

If you are behind you should take Themis' Directed Study with a grain of salt. Overall it is good. However, there are times when you should go into Flex Study, or just ignore their recommended course load, in order to stay on track.

[Genuine4ps]

For those of you that are a behind in preparation, does Themis automatically catch you up by increasing the workload each day, or do we just work ahead? Thanks.

Themis is weird. They accelerate all of your regular assignments (lectures, readings) but expect you to take the graded essays and milestone exams when everybody else does. So, for example, I am in the middle of my property lectures. However, I had a milestone exam scheduled for today. If I took the milestone exam I would have flunked 30% of it because I don't know property! The same thing happened last week when I was assigned a graded essay on Wills & Estates even though I haven't taken the Wills & Estates lectures.

Themis' scheduler is strange too. I don't think it recognizes weekends. It ramps up all of my activities but will sometimes put a huge amount of work on Saturday and Sunday. Inexplicably, it will give me days off on Thursday or Tuesday.

If you are behind you should take Themis' Directed Study with a grain of salt. Overall it is good. However, there are times when you should go into Flex Study, or just ignore their recommended course load, in order to stay on track.

That's really weird. I started Themis on the scheduled date, and the only day it gave me off was the 4th of July.

I don't know about Barbri, but my Kaplan friends have a much more relaxed schedule. I'm getting overwhelmed with the Themis schedule. Not angry or anything, because Themis has proven itself with its passage rates, but I am feeling swamped.

[JoeFish]

For people who took Milestone #1 today, did you take the full 90 minutes? I took less and could have gone back to review but was too lazy. I was around the average score, and I think that's fine. Even quite a bit less than average really is fine considering that a large majority of people pass in NY.

I took approximately 44 minutes. I did not go back to review either though.

[colonial108]

I joined here back in law school and honestly don't know if I have ever posted anything. Nonetheless, I was up late the other night and logged on here just for the heck of it and found this thread. I did the Themis Bar Review for the February exam in Missouri and passed pretty easily (Missouri is a UBE state, FWIW). Take note that I own two businesses, forcing me to work full time while doing bar prep (except the last three weeks before the exam I had people cover for me at work), have four children that play a combined 1200 sports, I believe, and basically have zero free time. I liked Themis, and when I sat for the actual bar, I felt pretty prepared (especially on the MBE--the essays are an absolute crapshoot).

Here is what I did from memory, for the most part: I did all of the graded essays and graded MPT. I did NOT do any of the practice essays. Seriously. In retrospect, I am glad I did not because at least for the February UBE, they would not have helped me in the slightest. I did print off every single model answer and review it just to get a feel for how the answers were structured. The UBE essays were much like a law school exam, but with smaller fact patterns in a shorter amount of time. I am not advocating blowing off the practice essays, I am just telling you I did not do them and I passed the bar exam. I did every single MBE question they offered. I think it was around 2100 or so when it was all said and done. I did not fill out any of the handouts from the lectures. I would listen to the lectures while I worked and kind of absorbed the material in passing, I never, ever once just sat there and watched a lecture. On the subjects I was not as familiar with (Family Law, Secured, Commercial Paper) I listened to them two or three times each. I didn't spend too much time with the MBE subject lectures because the summary outlines pretty much cover that stuff. I really didn't need to hear a torts lecture. Most of the people on here could probably GIVE a torts lecture. The lectures cover very, very basic concepts, IMO. Where it's at is the summary outlines and the exceptions. The MBE LOVES to test the exceptions to the rules, especially in contracts. The only full outline from the book I read was Civ Pro because it's pretty much guaranteed on the MEE each year.

I know you are anxious, and I know bar exam prep is stressful and annoying. The amount of material Themis gives you is mind-numbing. It would probably have taken me two years to do all of it if I actually completed everything they assigned. I did not. Not even close. I focused on MBE and reading the answers as to why they were right/wrong. That will help you with any essays that cover MBE material, too. You will start to see the patterns on the MBE, and when you get to the exam you will start reading the question and say "oh, it's one of these." In the end, I was pretty happy with the Themis program. Don't get down if you think you are behind. Obviously I can't speak for those who are studying for exams that include state specific material, like California. I couldn't imagine dealing with that thing. I just wanted to provide a little hope for those who may be struggling a bit. I just went through this 6 months ago, so it's still fresh. Keep plugging away, you'll be fine.

[kapital98]

That's really weird. I started Themis on the scheduled date, and the only day it gave me off was the 4th of July.

I don't know about Barbri, but my Kaplan friends have a much more relaxed schedule. I'm getting overwhelmed with the Themis schedule. Not angry or anything, because Themis has proven itself with its passage rates, but I am feeling swamped.

Let me clarify a little: Themis won't necessarily give me the day off. They will treat it like they treat most Saturdays and Sundays for the people on track. So, for example, they will only give me one or two topics on random days ("review con law notes" -- watch this one lecture). Then on some days, including Sundays, they will give me 5-10 topics.

My main goal is to reach that 75% mark. By mainly following their schedule and going into Flex Mode when necessary I should be able to accomplish that without too much trouble.

[Genuine4ps]

Colonial, thank you for your post. Would you consider yourself pretty damn good at multiple choice? I get the impression you dominated the MBE and somewhat winged it on the essays.

[Tanicius]

Colonial, what did you do for the essays? The UBE essay prep is what's giving me the most anxiety. I just don't know how I'm supposed to prepare myself for ultra-specific statutory topics like Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper, where the entire answer hinges on a stupid exception to an exception to an exception that only the long outline mentions.

[Tanicius]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between presentment and transfer warranties? Maybe if you could help explain the policy behind the difference and why they are treated differently? I honestly have zero idea in a Commercial Paper fact pattern which warranty action is triggered as opposed to the other, or what consequences it leads to.

[colonial108]

I did pretty well on the multiple choice, yes. It took awhile of study to get the multiple choice figured out though. I was probably 1200-1500 questions in before the light bulb completely came on, but once you get it, you get it. (As an aside, I am also 37 years old, and as people age they generally get worse at standardized tests. I did NOT do that well on the LSAT, for the record). I recall on one of the Themis milestone exams, I got 11/11 on a property section and literally wanted to quit studying right there

One thing that was weird was evidence. I sucked at evidence in law school. My second lowest grade in all three years. However, I completely understood it for the bar. After the Themis review it just made sense. Strange.

Anyway, the essays...

...like I said, the UBE essays were much like a law school exam. Don't be afraid. The only thing you need to manage is your time. Remember, the thing is just to say something. It doesn't have to be a perfect answer. There are people all around you giving horrific answers, trust me. The MEE questions in February were VERY narrow, and I was really surprised. I thought they would cover a broader area in whatever topic, but they did not. It was literally one odd topic from a large body of law. I would elaborate, but I don't want to violate the disclosure rules from the exam. After day one, the first thing I said was "I am so glad I didn't do all of those practice essays because it would have been a complete waste of time." As long as you know your rules, you can draft a coherent essay. Just IRAC the damn thing out and plow on through it. In every essay, I just did IRAC. If you don't know the answer, move on to the next issue and/or essay. The UBE gives you basically 30 minutes to do each MEE. I had 27 minutes left when I hit the final question (which was this horrid partnerships question that I know I bombed). I don't have any great tips for the essays, other than they really reminded me of law school essay questions, just with shorter fact patterns.

The MPT wasn't terrible. One question sucked, the other was completely manageable. Missouri was 50% MBE, 30% MEE, 20% MPT. Know those distributions. I knew I totally bombed that last MEE essay, but didn't even worry because it was only 5% of the entire exam. Like I said, I printed off every question/model answer and just looked at the structure. The key is to know the law. Memorize your rules/laws the best you can, and apply them to the structure. You are NOT going to know everything. It's impossible. Sometimes you are just going to have to punt. If so, do it and move on. With the exception of very few people taking the bar with you, most will be struggling. It's a test of endurance as well as knowledge. I had to pause around the 140th multiple choice question, regroup, and remind myself to plow on through. On the MBE you can almost always eliminate two answers immediately. I think I was also able to spot the non-graded questions as well too and didn't waste much time with those (remember, there are only 190 MBE questions that actually count--so if you see an MBE question that seems to be straight up Civ Pro, my guess is that it's a sample question--I can't say for sure, but there were a few questions that just didn't seem like they fit with the rest).

I will try to answer questions the best I can. Hopefully I am not being too vague, nor overbroad (a little Jeffries for you there).

[Lasers]

I'm finding these Anindita Dutta essay workshops to be pretty useless

yeah. all the essay and mbe workshops are useless, aren't they?

the worksheets are useful, but those lectures are a waste of time.

[Lasers]

For those of you that are a behind in preparation, does Themis automatically catch you up by increasing the workload each day, or do we just work ahead? Thanks.

Themis is weird. They accelerate all of your regular assignments (lectures, readings) but expect you to take the graded essays and milestone exams when everybody else does. So, for example, I am in the middle of my property lectures. However, I had a milestone exam scheduled for today. If I took the milestone exam I would have flunked 30% of it because I don't know property! The same thing happened last week when I was assigned a graded essay on Wills & Estates even though I haven't taken the Wills & Estates lectures.

Themis' scheduler is strange too. I don't think it recognizes weekends. It ramps up all of my activities but will sometimes put a huge amount of work on Saturday and Sunday. Inexplicably, it will give me days off on Thursday or Tuesday.

If you are behind you should take Themis' Directed Study with a grain of salt. Overall it is good. However, there are times when you should go into Flex Study, or just ignore their recommended course load, in order to stay on track.

yep. i'm behind by over a week and the assignments just stack. it's funny.

i'm gonna start actually trying. soon.

[d3sp]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between presentment and transfer warranties? Maybe if you could help explain the policy behind the difference and why they are treated differently? I honestly have zero idea in a Commercial Paper fact pattern which warranty action is triggered as opposed to the other, or what consequences it leads to.

Presentment warranties can only be asserted by the presentment bank, i.e. the bank that the draft is presented to for payment.

Transfer warranties can be asserted by the holder of a draft--not the presentment bank--against any prior holders of the draft.

So think of it like this:
A draft was altered before it got to D and accordingly, the presentment bank as well. So the presentment files a breach of presentment bank on D, the person who presented the draft. D, can turn around and file a breach of transfer warranty against C, the person he took the draft from as long as C had broke a transfer warranty(alteration). It helps to look at the flow chart. Hope this helps, Tanicius.

[FlanAl]

my percentage of the course completed dropped 4% from what it was yesterday. Did I somehow do negative work last night? Also, the directed study automatically adjusts itself if I don't do work for a day right? I just want to make sure I am not supposed to be doing more than is assigned to make up for my weekend laziness.

[puttycake]

my percentage of the course completed dropped 4% from what it was yesterday. Did I somehow do negative work last night? Also, the directed study automatically adjusts itself if I don't do work for a day right? I just want to make sure I am not supposed to be doing more than is assigned to make up for my weekend laziness.

I think maybe the percentage complete goes down when new tasks become available. So you're always being told your progress for what you actually could be doing, not the stuff that's locked.

I think.

I might be full of it.

[Themis Bar Review]

I'd be curious to hear how far along people are who will be testing in the famously easy jurisdictions (Illinois, Mass., any others?).

I'm at 10% in Illinois and not terribly worried. Getting a little more serious about studying this week, then I'll turn it on after July 4.

Any others from easy jurisdictions want to check in? (Or are you all at the beach...?)

+1 would like to know this too.

Also, pretty behind as well. I don't think we're in that bad of a position, thought, because we're only supposed to complete 75%. I think if we stick to the schedule from here on out, we should be able to meet that goal. Could be wrong.

Just so everyone knows, if you do happen to fail, you won't get another course free unless you have done 75% of each category. So, for example, if you did not finish 75% of practice essays, you're out of luck. Its not measured by 75% of the entire course.
Don't mean to bring up any possibility of failing, I just figured the guarantee meant 75% of the whole course and apparently it does not.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to take an opportunity to address the exchange from above. The information posted above regarding our Pass or Free Repeat Guarantee is incorrect.

From our website - http://www.themisbar.com/faq#general-questions

"Do you offer a pass guarantee?
In the unlikely event that you are unsuccessful on your bar exam, Themis offers our pass guarantee. Under the Pass or a Free Repeat Guarantee, if you are a first-time Themis taker, we will provide you with a free repeat of our course for the next administration of the same bar exam at no cost to you. We are that confident in your success!"

As you can see, there is no qualifying benchmark of percentage to complete in order to take advantage of this. Once you receive your score report from your respective state and if you were unsuccessful, you can email a copy of your score report to info@themisbar.com and you will be enrolled into the February 2015 course for your state.

Good luck over the next few weeks, everyone.

EJ
Themis Bar Review

[Genuine4ps]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to take an opportunity to address the exchange from above. The information posted above regarding our Pass or Free Repeat Guarantee is incorrect.

From our website - http://www.themisbar.com/faq#general-questions

"Do you offer a pass guarantee?
In the unlikely event that you are unsuccessful on your bar exam, Themis offers our pass guarantee. Under the Pass or a Free Repeat Guarantee, if you are a first-time Themis taker, we will provide you with a free repeat of our course for the next administration of the same bar exam at no cost to you. We are that confident in your success!"

As you can see, there is no qualifying benchmark of percentage to complete in order to take advantage of this. Once you receive your score report from your respective state and if you were unsuccessful, you can email a copy of your score report to info@themisbar.com and you will be enrolled into the February 2015 course for your state.

Good luck over the next few weeks, everyone.

EJ
Themis Bar Review

Themis,

A couple of us that are behind on schedule were wondering if Themis automatically increases the workload in directed study to catch us up or whether we should be working ahead on our own. Thanks!

[Themis Bar Review]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to take an opportunity to address the exchange from above. The information posted above regarding our Pass or Free Repeat Guarantee is incorrect.

From our website - http://www.themisbar.com/faq#general-questions

"Do you offer a pass guarantee?
In the unlikely event that you are unsuccessful on your bar exam, Themis offers our pass guarantee. Under the Pass or a Free Repeat Guarantee, if you are a first-time Themis taker, we will provide you with a free repeat of our course for the next administration of the same bar exam at no cost to you. We are that confident in your success!"

As you can see, there is no qualifying benchmark of percentage to complete in order to take advantage of this. Once you receive your score report from your respective state and if you were unsuccessful, you can email a copy of your score report to info@themisbar.com and you will be enrolled into the February 2015 course for your state.

Good luck over the next few weeks, everyone.

EJ
Themis Bar Review

Themis,

A couple of us that are behind on schedule were wondering if Themis automatically increases the workload in directed study to catch us up or whether we should be working ahead on our own. Thanks!

Hi Genuine,

Yes, your Directed Study schedule does adjust each night at midnight. If you are concerned about getting caught up or the amount of work you should be completing per day, please go to your myCommunication tab in your course portal. From here, select New Message in the bottom left hand corner. When the message box pops up, choose Study Strategies as your message type to ensure that your message is sent to the correct party that will be able to best assist you.

EJ
Themis Bar Review

[Genuine4ps]

Hoping for some help on a property question.

In the question, an owner of a mansion devises that mansion to a charity "so long as the charity keeps it open to the public." I got this question correct but for the wrong reason. I thought that it violated RAP? Can someone explain how it doesn't?

Thanks!

[Tanicius]

Hoping for some help on a property question.

In the question, an owner of a mansion devises that mansion to a charity "so long as the charity keeps it open to the public." I got this question correct but for the wrong reason. I thought that it violated RAP? Can someone explain how it doesn't?

Thanks!

Charities are not subject to the RAP.

[Prime]

My favorite:

While this answer is correct, we like this answer better. No indication made as to "pick the best answer' merely which of the following claims can the party assert. I love Con law..

[Tanicius]

My favorite:

While this answer is correct, we like this answer better. No indication made as to "pick the best answer' merely which of the following claims can the party assert. I love Con law..

This has been happening on Contracts too, with growing frequency. I'm starting to understand why Duffy said don't worry about Contracts and move on to other subjects. I did a 35 question set on K's today, and there were about five questions that didn't even ask an intelligible question, let alone provide intelligibly distinct answers. The "Correct, but not for our arbitrarily preferred reasons" explanation showed up at least as many times.

[Prime]

My favorite:

While this answer is correct, we like this answer better. No indication made as to "pick the best answer' merely which of the following claims can the party assert. I love Con law..

This has been happening on Contracts too, with growing frequency. I'm starting to understand why Duffy said don't worry about Contracts and move on to other subjects. I did a 35 question set on K's today, and there were about five questions that didn't even ask an intelligible question, let alone provide intelligibly distinct answers. The "Correct, but not for our arbitrarily preferred reasons" explanation showed up at least as many times.

I can't wait to get to contracts.

[Gotti]

For people who took Milestone #1 today, did you take the full 90 minutes? I took less and could have gone back to review but was too lazy. I was around the average score, and I think that's fine. Even quite a bit less than average really is fine considering that a large majority of people pass in NY.

I took approximately 44 minutes. I did not go back to review either though.

Wow, I took 95 minutes lol