July 2015 California Bar Exam Forum

[brotherdarkness]

Ok so unanimous in all civil, and unanimous in criminal only if 6 jurors?

No it always has to be unanimous in the federal courts. But if it's in state court the Seventh amendment just requires 6 votes.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some dumb reason I was thinking that the FRCP didn't govern criminal trials in federal court.

[BuenAbogado]

Ok so unanimous in all civil, and unanimous in criminal only if 6 jurors?

No it always has to be unanimous in the federal courts. But if it's in state court the Seventh amendment just requires 6 votes.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some dumb reason I was thinking that the FRCP didn't govern criminal trials in federal court.

You may still be wrong. When you say FRCP, in this context, what does the C stand for?

[redblueyellow]

Critical Pass flashcards says that an additur may be granted in federal court (or a judge can order a new trial for damages).

However, isn't an additur unconstitutional because the judge would be increasing damages that was not provided for by the jury?

[redblueyellow]

According to FRCP 48(b) - "Verdict. Unless the parties stipulate otherwise, the verdict must be unanimous and must be returned by a jury of at least 6 members."

Is a unanimous jury in Fed Courts in criminal and civil cases required?

I know state courts can be all over the place for civil and crim as long as it's a majority.

FRCP requires unanimity in all civil.

Criminal law requires unanimity if 6 jurors and majority if 12. No idea what happens if there are 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11 jurors tho...

The constitution doesn't require that it be unanimous even in criminal cases. Just has to be unanimous if six. I think the only weird ones SCOTUS has upheld are 9-3 and 10-2

So basically, in FRCP: if 6, unanimous. If more, up in the air?

What if a question tests on 8-4? Answer in the negative? Mistrial?

[brotherdarkness]

Ok so unanimous in all civil, and unanimous in criminal only if 6 jurors?

No it always has to be unanimous in the federal courts. But if it's in state court the Seventh amendment just requires 6 votes.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some dumb reason I was thinking that the FRCP didn't govern criminal trials in federal court.

You may still be wrong. When you say FRCP, in this context, what does the C stand for?

Dude you know FRCP means federal rules of civil procedure. If I'm not getting this, please explain rather than play coy.

[ilovetheatre]

FRCP can also be FRCriminalP.

[healthnut]

Ok so unanimous in all civil, and unanimous in criminal only if 6 jurors?

No it always has to be unanimous in the federal courts. But if it's in state court the Seventh amendment just requires 6 votes.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some dumb reason I was thinking that the FRCP didn't govern criminal trials in federal court.

You may still be wrong. When you say FRCP, in this context, what does the C stand for?

Dude you know FRCP means federal rules of civil procedure. If I'm not getting this, please explain rather than play coy.

Federal Crim: unanimous

Civil: unanimous UNLESS stipulated otherwise between the parties

Both at least 6 members.

[BuenAbogado]

Ok so unanimous in all civil, and unanimous in criminal only if 6 jurors?

No it always has to be unanimous in the federal courts. But if it's in state court the Seventh amendment just requires 6 votes.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some dumb reason I was thinking that the FRCP didn't govern criminal trials in federal court.

You may still be wrong. When you say FRCP, in this context, what does the C stand for?

Dude you know FRCP means federal rules of civil procedure. If I'm not getting this, please explain rather than play coy.

I'm employing the Federal Rules of Coy Procedures

[Tiago Splitter]

Critical Pass flashcards says that an additur may be granted in federal court (or a judge can order a new trial for damages).

However, isn't an additur unconstitutional because the judge would be increasing damages that was not provided for by the jury?

Barbri made clear that additur is unconstitutional in the federal courts. Not sure what Critical Pass was going for there.

EDIT: Apparently there is some debate over whether Fed courts can use additur in a diversity case, but if this comes up on the test I'm gonna say they can't and move on.

[Tiago Splitter]

What if a question tests on 8-4? Answer in the negative? Mistrial?

The state would have to have a statute that says 8-4 is ok. If so the conviction would be proper. Then the guy would have to sue on the grounds that 8-4 is unconstitutional and our answer to that would be "lol dunno." Or more artfully "Constitution does not require unanimity, but SCOTUS has not expressly affirmed 8-4"

[BuenAbogado]

Critical Pass flashcards says that an additur may be granted in federal court (or a judge can order a new trial for damages).

However, isn't an additur unconstitutional because the judge would be increasing damages that was not provided for by the jury?

Barbri made clear that additur is unconstitutional in the federal courts. Not sure what Critical Pass was going for there.

EDIT: Apparently there is some debate over whether Fed courts can use additur in a diversity case, but if this comes up on the test I'm gonna say they can't and move on.

Usually MBE will test on our knowledge of whether a court must grant remittitur with a new trial. It must, per the 7th amendment.

Everyone do well on MBEs since it will help our essay curves.

[Raiden]

I'm as in the dark as anyone else. Idk what a passing essay looks like and idk what a failing essay looks like. I hope mine fall in the former category, but there's no way to tell. Barbri's sample answers aren't representative. The ones on the CA Bar website seem reasonable (like, I think I could do something similar), but they don't tell us what scores those received (are they examples of 65s, or 90s?). A failing essay could be something just shy of those, or something far worse.

They seem similar to the model essays we have from themis, which are suppose to be in the 85 range. I imagine those essays are in that range too.

[BuenAbogado]

I'm as in the dark as anyone else. Idk what a passing essay looks like and idk what a failing essay looks like. I hope mine fall in the former category, but there's no way to tell. Barbri's sample answers aren't representative. The ones on the CA Bar website seem reasonable (like, I think I could do something similar), but they don't tell us what scores those received (are they examples of 65s, or 90s?). A failing essay could be something just shy of those, or something far worse.

They seem similar to the model essays we have from themis, which are suppose to be in the 85 range. I imagine those essays are in that range too.

There is no such thing as a typical x score essay. If you look at the baressays exams, you have some 75s and 80s that deserved 60s and vice versa. Graders have SO MUCH influence on your exam. The procedure is unfair and deprives you of time and money. There are no intelligible standards given nor a detailed list of what we are being punished for on the essays.

[Redamon1]

I'm as in the dark as anyone else. Idk what a passing essay looks like and idk what a failing essay looks like. I hope mine fall in the former category, but there's no way to tell. Barbri's sample answers aren't representative. The ones on the CA Bar website seem reasonable (like, I think I could do something similar), but they don't tell us what scores those received (are they examples of 65s, or 90s?). A failing essay could be something just shy of those, or something far worse.

They seem similar to the model essays we have from themis, which are suppose to be in the 85 range. I imagine those essays are in that range too.

There is no such thing as a typical x score essay. If you look at the baressays exams, you have some 75s and 80s that deserved 60s and vice versa. Graders have SO MUCH influence on your exam. The procedure is unfair and deprives you of time and money. There are no intelligible standards given nor a detailed list of what we are being punished for on the essays.

The way I keep my spirits up is by thinking that California has a 3-day exam. As awful as that is, 6 essays and 2 PTs is a protection against the graders' arbitrariness.

[crumpetsandtea]

L O L if CA CP is on the test I'm 100% going to fail. Like, I might just walk out of the test. I haven't been studying it at all practically, in favor of the other topics. Like....I'll be REALLY FUCKING PISSED.

Fuck now I'm scared and I'm considering cramming CA CP for the next day.

[MBAtoJD]

I passed in Feb., and just wanted to stop by and wish you luck. Maybe a lil pep talk may help someone.

1. Do not get overwhelmed in the next few days. Stress makes you start forgetting what you know. In other words, stress makes you stupid. There is nothing on the test you've not come across. If you come across something that you've never seen, find comfort in the fact that a majority of people are in the same boat so scaling will be awesome.

2. For essays, (a) headings, headings, headings! (b) IRAC (c) break it down step by step. Let if flow like poetry. Make your grader smile!

3. For MBE, if you don't know the answer, for the love of God, don't stare at it and read to 2, 3, 4 times. Move the f**k on. The sweet thing about MBE is you cam miss 50 questions and still get a good score. 50 is a lot of questions. If you start freaking out and hovering on one question, you are going to start missing those freebie questions that you would have answered correctly if you weren't freaking out.

4. For PT, if you start getting overwhelmed with all the freaking facts, cases, statutes, close your eyes, deep breath, count to 10. Personally, PTs were my weakness. What worked for me was read supervisor's instruction, format (to, from, re, date), create heading based on supervisor's instructions which I revised after reading cases (add because), glance over file, pick a key document to read (complaint, transcript of depo, etc), then to library then back to read the rest of the file. I just typed as I went. So by an hour and a half, my screen had a lot of info and I wasn't freaking out and looking at a blank screen.

5. If you have a bad day, don't let it bleed into the following day. You are still in the ring. It's not over yet. Do not give up. Keep swinging, Floyd Mayweather!

6. Like I tell my 9 year old, no negative self talk. Be positive, be confident! A huge part of this exam is your emotion. Don't underestimate what you can do. After PTB in Feb., as they were reading the final instruction, I told the guy next to me, that I guess I'll be back in July! His response was, "Really?!?! You looked like you knew what you were doing!" Throughout the exam, I was cracking jokes, laughing, getting to know those sitting next to me, asking proctor were she got her nice looking necklace from. I guess in my mind, I was like...it could be worse. The Bar could have said you can only take the Bar twice in 3 years or some shit.

If you know your worth and what you can do in life, no f**king Bar can stop you. They can delay you but they can't stop you.

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best. GO KICK ASS!

[Charger]

I passed in Feb., and just wanted to stop by and wish you luck. Maybe a lil pep talk may help someone.

1. Do not get overwhelmed in the next few days. Stress makes you start forgetting what you know. In other words, stress makes you stupid. There is nothing on the test you've not come across. If you come across something that you've never seen, find comfort in the fact that a majority of people are in the same boat so scaling will be awesome.

2. For essays, (a) headings, headings, headings! (b) IRAC (c) break it down step by step. Let if flow like poetry. Make your grader smile!

3. For MBE, if you don't know the answer, for the love of God, don't stare at it and read to 2, 3, 4 times. Move the f**k on. The sweet thing about MBE is you cam miss 50 questions and still get a good score. 50 is a lot of questions. If you start freaking out and hovering on one question, you are going to start missing those freebie questions that you would have answered correctly if you weren't freaking out.

4. For PT, if you start getting overwhelmed with all the freaking facts, cases, statutes, close your eyes, deep breath, count to 10. Personally, PTs were my weakness. What worked for me was read supervisor's instruction, format (to, from, re, date), create heading based on supervisor's instructions which I revised after reading cases (add because), glance over file, pick a key document to read (complaint, transcript of depo, etc), then to library then back to read the rest of the file. I just typed as I went. So by an hour and a half, my screen had a lot of info and I wasn't freaking out and looking at a blank screen.

5. If you have a bad day, don't let it bleed into the following day. You are still in the ring. It's not over yet. Do not give up. Keep swinging, Floyd Mayweather!

6. Like I tell my 9 year old, no negative self talk. Be positive, be confident! A huge part of this exam is your emotion. Don't underestimate what you can do. After PTB in Feb., as they were reading the final instruction, I told the guy next to me, that I guess I'll be back in July! His response was, "Really?!?! You looked like you knew what you were doing!" Throughout the exam, I was cracking jokes, laughing, getting to know those sitting next to me, asking proctor were she got her nice looking necklace from. I guess in my mind, I was like...it could be worse. The Bar could have said you can only take the Bar twice in 3 years or some shit.

If you know your worth and what you can do in life, no f**king Bar can stop you. They can delay you but they can't stop you.

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best. GO KICK ASS!

Exactly what I needed to hear right now. Thanks!

[sopranorleone]

I passed in Feb., and just wanted to stop by and wish you luck. Maybe a lil pep talk may help someone.

1. Do not get overwhelmed in the next few days. Stress makes you start forgetting what you know. In other words, stress makes you stupid. There is nothing on the test you've not come across. If you come across something that you've never seen, find comfort in the fact that a majority of people are in the same boat so scaling will be awesome.

2. For essays, (a) headings, headings, headings! (b) IRAC (c) break it down step by step. Let if flow like poetry. Make your grader smile!

3. For MBE, if you don't know the answer, for the love of God, don't stare at it and read to 2, 3, 4 times. Move the f**k on. The sweet thing about MBE is you cam miss 50 questions and still get a good score. 50 is a lot of questions. If you start freaking out and hovering on one question, you are going to start missing those freebie questions that you would have answered correctly if you weren't freaking out.

4. For PT, if you start getting overwhelmed with all the freaking facts, cases, statutes, close your eyes, deep breath, count to 10. Personally, PTs were my weakness. What worked for me was read supervisor's instruction, format (to, from, re, date), create heading based on supervisor's instructions which I revised after reading cases (add because), glance over file, pick a key document to read (complaint, transcript of depo, etc), then to library then back to read the rest of the file. I just typed as I went. So by an hour and a half, my screen had a lot of info and I wasn't freaking out and looking at a blank screen.

5. If you have a bad day, don't let it bleed into the following day. You are still in the ring. It's not over yet. Do not give up. Keep swinging, Floyd Mayweather!

6. Like I tell my 9 year old, no negative self talk. Be positive, be confident! A huge part of this exam is your emotion. Don't underestimate what you can do. After PTB in Feb., as they were reading the final instruction, I told the guy next to me, that I guess I'll be back in July! His response was, "Really?!?! You looked like you knew what you were doing!" Throughout the exam, I was cracking jokes, laughing, getting to know those sitting next to me, asking proctor were she got her nice looking necklace from. I guess in my mind, I was like...it could be worse. The Bar could have said you can only take the Bar twice in 3 years or some shit.

If you know your worth and what you can do in life, no f**king Bar can stop you. They can delay you but they can't stop you.

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best. GO KICK ASS!

Exactly what I needed to hear right now. Thanks!

Ditto. Karma points for you!

[BuenAbogado]

I passed in Feb., and just wanted to stop by and wish you luck. Maybe a lil pep talk may help someone.

1. Do not get overwhelmed in the next few days. Stress makes you start forgetting what you know. In other words, stress makes you stupid. There is nothing on the test you've not come across. If you come across something that you've never seen, find comfort in the fact that a majority of people are in the same boat so scaling will be awesome.

2. For essays, (a) headings, headings, headings! (b) IRAC (c) break it down step by step. Let if flow like poetry. Make your grader smile!

3. For MBE, if you don't know the answer, for the love of God, don't stare at it and read to 2, 3, 4 times. Move the f**k on. The sweet thing about MBE is you cam miss 50 questions and still get a good score. 50 is a lot of questions. If you start freaking out and hovering on one question, you are going to start missing those freebie questions that you would have answered correctly if you weren't freaking out.

4. For PT, if you start getting overwhelmed with all the freaking facts, cases, statutes, close your eyes, deep breath, count to 10. Personally, PTs were my weakness. What worked for me was read supervisor's instruction, format (to, from, re, date), create heading based on supervisor's instructions which I revised after reading cases (add because), glance over file, pick a key document to read (complaint, transcript of depo, etc), then to library then back to read the rest of the file. I just typed as I went. So by an hour and a half, my screen had a lot of info and I wasn't freaking out and looking at a blank screen.

5. If you have a bad day, don't let it bleed into the following day. You are still in the ring. It's not over yet. Do not give up. Keep swinging, Floyd Mayweather!

6. Like I tell my 9 year old, no negative self talk. Be positive, be confident! A huge part of this exam is your emotion. Don't underestimate what you can do. After PTB in Feb., as they were reading the final instruction, I told the guy next to me, that I guess I'll be back in July! His response was, "Really?!?! You looked like you knew what you were doing!" Throughout the exam, I was cracking jokes, laughing, getting to know those sitting next to me, asking proctor were she got her nice looking necklace from. I guess in my mind, I was like...it could be worse. The Bar could have said you can only take the Bar twice in 3 years or some shit.

If you know your worth and what you can do in life, no f**king Bar can stop you. They can delay you but they can't stop you.

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best. GO KICK ASS!

U my boy blue

[brotherdarkness]

I passed in Feb., and just wanted to stop by and wish you luck. Maybe a lil pep talk may help someone.

1. Do not get overwhelmed in the next few days. Stress makes you start forgetting what you know. In other words, stress makes you stupid. There is nothing on the test you've not come across. If you come across something that you've never seen, find comfort in the fact that a majority of people are in the same boat so scaling will be awesome.

2. For essays, (a) headings, headings, headings! (b) IRAC (c) break it down step by step. Let if flow like poetry. Make your grader smile!

3. For MBE, if you don't know the answer, for the love of God, don't stare at it and read to 2, 3, 4 times. Move the f**k on. The sweet thing about MBE is you cam miss 50 questions and still get a good score. 50 is a lot of questions. If you start freaking out and hovering on one question, you are going to start missing those freebie questions that you would have answered correctly if you weren't freaking out.

4. For PT, if you start getting overwhelmed with all the freaking facts, cases, statutes, close your eyes, deep breath, count to 10. Personally, PTs were my weakness. What worked for me was read supervisor's instruction, format (to, from, re, date), create heading based on supervisor's instructions which I revised after reading cases (add because), glance over file, pick a key document to read (complaint, transcript of depo, etc), then to library then back to read the rest of the file. I just typed as I went. So by an hour and a half, my screen had a lot of info and I wasn't freaking out and looking at a blank screen.

5. If you have a bad day, don't let it bleed into the following day. You are still in the ring. It's not over yet. Do not give up. Keep swinging, Floyd Mayweather!

6. Like I tell my 9 year old, no negative self talk. Be positive, be confident! A huge part of this exam is your emotion. Don't underestimate what you can do. After PTB in Feb., as they were reading the final instruction, I told the guy next to me, that I guess I'll be back in July! His response was, "Really?!?! You looked like you knew what you were doing!" Throughout the exam, I was cracking jokes, laughing, getting to know those sitting next to me, asking proctor were she got her nice looking necklace from. I guess in my mind, I was like...it could be worse. The Bar could have said you can only take the Bar twice in 3 years or some shit.

If you know your worth and what you can do in life, no f**king Bar can stop you. They can delay you but they can't stop you.

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best. GO KICK ASS!

I needed that, thanks. Had a nice panic attack this morning and nearly melted down.

[a male human]

For those who have taken the Bar before, what are some logistical things we should prepare for? I assume it's like the MPRE, time ten.

This is my first-time, but I had a friend take and pass in February. He has some pretty straight forward, common sense, and practical advice:

*Get there early (i.e. 7:30-ish), have a plan for parking if you're commuting, etc.
*Pack your own food for lunch so that you're not fighting the crowds during lunch break
*Note that you have to leave your laptop during lunch break (go to your room if you're staying close)
*Have your stuff ready to take into the exam room the day before (ID, Admittance Ticket, pencils, watch, laptop + Charger, etc., but NO: Food, drink, etc.)
*If you need to go to the bathroom, check your time and go. Better than being uncomfortable waiting
*Fight the urge to listen and/or talk about anything on breaks or in the evening
*Get good rest and don't stay up late reviewing
*Have a plan B if your laptop bombs so you're ready to write. (Hope for the best, but plan for the worst)

I'll add:
- earplugs for sleeping and/or during the test
- a pillow if you want to cushion your back and ass for the 18+ hours you'll be at your station
- an analog watch to keep track of time (set it to noon every section for easy reference)
- do not bring a paper clip on Wednesday
- consider answering the essays not in order, depending on how comfortable you feel with each subject

I'll post more relevant things starting tomorrow

[BuenAbogado]

For those who have taken the Bar before, what are some logistical things we should prepare for? I assume it's like the MPRE, time ten.

This is my first-time, but I had a friend take and pass in February. He has some pretty straight forward, common sense, and practical advice:

*Get there early (i.e. 7:30-ish), have a plan for parking if you're commuting, etc.
*Pack your own food for lunch so that you're not fighting the crowds during lunch break
*Note that you have to leave your laptop during lunch break (go to your room if you're staying close)
*Have your stuff ready to take into the exam room the day before (ID, Admittance Ticket, pencils, watch, laptop + Charger, etc., but NO: Food, drink, etc.)
*If you need to go to the bathroom, check your time and go. Better than being uncomfortable waiting
*Fight the urge to listen and/or talk about anything on breaks or in the evening
*Get good rest and don't stay up late reviewing
*Have a plan B if your laptop bombs so you're ready to write. (Hope for the best, but plan for the worst)

I'll add:
- earplugs for sleeping and/or during the test
- a pillow if you want to cushion your back and ass for the 18+ hours you'll be at your station
- an analog watch to keep track of time (set it to noon every section for easy reference)
- do not bring a paper clip on Wednesday
- consider answering the essays not in order, depending on how comfortable you feel with each subject

I'll post more relevant things starting tomorrow

Ooh wow. Surprisingly unorthodox re: not going in order

[brotherdarkness]

L O L if CA CP is on the test I'm 100% going to fail. Like, I might just walk out of the test. I haven't been studying it at all practically, in favor of the other topics. Like....I'll be REALLY FUCKING PISSED.

Fuck now I'm scared and I'm considering cramming CA CP for the next day.

If we get a CA civ pro question, I'm letting Jesus take the wheel -- and I'm counting on everyone else doing the same.

[robinhoodOO]

L O L if CA CP is on the test I'm 100% going to fail. Like, I might just walk out of the test. I haven't been studying it at all practically, in favor of the other topics. Like....I'll be REALLY FUCKING PISSED.

Fuck now I'm scared and I'm considering cramming CA CP for the next day.

If we get a CA civ pro question, I'm letting Jesus take the wheel -- and I'm counting on everyone else doing the same.

Agreed

[robinhoodOO]

It's also pretty fucked that pretty much everyone is predicting a CA CivPro question. Was it like that in Feb? What is there rational; guessing a hail mary?

Fucking cbx might as well test tribal law at this point