BarBri - NY Exam - July 2014 Forum

[Guchster]

yo can we use mechanical pencils?

Just says no 2 pencils; doesn't say wooden. The LSAT and MPRE specifically said NO MECHANICAL PENCILS.

i think the MBE said NO mechanical pencils. but they also said no ear plugs. i wouldn't risk it i guess. maybe take one with you and throw it out if they make you.

Yeah, I was going off the NY policy page--which looks like carves out of the MBE default rules. I think it's also somewhat to the discretion of the proctors to some degree--I hear most of them leave you alone and don't bother you as long as you're not interfering with other people and pissing off others, but others can take their job a little too seriously.

My friend was taking the bar near some guy who had one of these:



and it made an INSANE amount of noise (was just missing the 'DING' of a regular typewriter, lol). Even though you're technically allowed to bring it in, enough people complained and the proctors told him to put it away.

[PennBull]

here's a HAPPY topic...

where is everyone going on their post-bar trip?
OR if nowhere,
what types of bottles will you be depleting?!

going to a couple NASCAR races cause I'm a hick

other than that, just hangin with my puppy and giving her some well-deserved attention

what kinda puppy?!

i'm going to a bed and breakfast in Newport, RI. never stayed at a B&B or been to RI. pretty stoked.

she's a Cavalier King Charles

say hi Layla:

[harmonep07]

Did anyone do the half day MBE? I thought the SFE was somewhat reasonable but the half day MBE was impossible.

[turquoiseturtle]

here's a HAPPY topic...

where is everyone going on their post-bar trip?
OR if nowhere,
what types of bottles will you be depleting?!

going to a couple NASCAR races cause I'm a hick

other than that, just hangin with my puppy and giving her some well-deserved attention

what kinda puppy?!

i'm going to a bed and breakfast in Newport, RI. never stayed at a B&B or been to RI. pretty stoked.

she's a Cavalier King Charles

say hi Layla:

So adorable. I also love the name Layla, I think because my parents listened to a whole lot of Eric Clapton when I was a kid.

I'm just laying on the beach for the entire month of August.

[Guchster]

Did anyone do the half day MBE? I thought the SFE was somewhat reasonable but the half day MBE was impossible.

The half day and the full day are very tough. I've done about 25 Qs from each. I think Barbri's mentality is that if you're working on it, you've probably done Sets 1-6, the practice questions, and mixed sets--including the SFE--so you probably know your shit and need to be challenged.

[thetashster]

here's a HAPPY topic...

where is everyone going on their post-bar trip?
OR if nowhere,
what types of bottles will you be depleting?!

going to a couple NASCAR races cause I'm a hick

other than that, just hangin with my puppy and giving her some well-deserved attention

what kinda puppy?!

i'm going to a bed and breakfast in Newport, RI. never stayed at a B&B or been to RI. pretty stoked.

she's a Cavalier King Charles

say hi Layla:

So adorable. I also love the name Layla, I think because my parents listened to a whole lot of Eric Clapton when I was a kid.[/quote]


THIS PAGE NEEDS MORE PUPPIES OMGGGGGGG

[thetashster]

yo can we use mechanical pencils?

Just says no 2 pencils; doesn't say wooden. The LSAT and MPRE specifically said NO MECHANICAL PENCILS.

i think the MBE said NO mechanical pencils. but they also said no ear plugs. i wouldn't risk it i guess. maybe take one with you and throw it out if they make you.

Yeah, I was going off the NY policy page--which looks like carves out of the MBE default rules. I think it's also somewhat to the discretion of the proctors to some degree--I hear most of them leave you alone and don't bother you as long as you're not interfering with other people and pissing off others, but others can take their job a little too seriously.

My friend was taking the bar near some guy who had one of these:



and it made an INSANE amount of noise (was just missing the 'DING' of a regular typewriter, lol). Even though you're technically allowed to bring it in, enough people complained and the proctors told him to put it away.

what the HELL is that?! haha

[encore1101]

THIS PAGE NEEDS MORE PUPPIES OMGGGGGGG

<--- my dogs, Pepper (the german shepherd) and Jack (the golden retriever).

[thetashster]

THIS PAGE NEEDS MORE PUPPIES OMGGGGGGG

<--- my dogs, Pepper (the german shepherd) and Jack (the golden retriever).

so cute. if they had puppies during the exam, i think we'd all do a lot better.

[thetashster]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

[Helpful]

Did anyone do the half day MBE? I thought the SFE was somewhat reasonable but the half day MBE was impossible.

The half day and the full day are very tough. I've done about 25 Qs from each. I think Barbri's mentality is that if you're working on it, you've probably done Sets 1-6, the practice questions, and mixed sets--including the SFE--so you probably know your shit and need to be challenged.

I'm doing the half and full day just to get in as much practice as I can and maybe learn a rule or two that will get me a point or two, but it is frustrating to keep doing these and not really see a marked improvement over my simulated score. Granted, I was happy enough with my simulated score. I just hope that this practice actually makes an impact when it comes to the real thing. I'll probably do another NCBE set to try to gauge what this means with respect to the real thing.

[Guchster]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

How did you get a mortgage using a fixture? Or did you mean you got a PMSI loan?

Generally, absent an agreement, a mortgage attaches to all fixtures on the real estate. But the buyer and seller can carve out exceptions by agreement to this rule.

[Guchster]

basic property Q:

What's the difference between a tenancy at sufferance and a holder over tenant? Any legal differences?

[lawyerwannabe]

basic property Q:

What's the difference between a tenancy at sufferance and a holder over tenant? Any legal differences?

As far as I could tell they are the same thing except a holdover tenant can include a person who stays past the expiration of their lease because of an illness or something (because that is not voluntarily staying)?

[turquoiseturtle]

basic property Q:

What's the difference between a tenancy at sufferance and a holder over tenant? Any legal differences?

I don't think there's a legal difference, in general, I just think they refer to different things that arise in the same situation. When you're a hold over tenant, you have a tenancy at sufferance. I remember Paula talking about how a tenancy at sufferance only exists for a short period of time though, because either you get evicted or you get held to a new tenancy that is not at sufferance.

[harmonep07]

basic property Q:

What's the difference between a tenancy at sufferance and a holder over tenant? Any legal differences?

I think basically same thing. Semantically, I believe the tenant who stays past the lease expiration automatically creates a tenancy at sufferance, and it's only called a holdover tenancy if the LL elects to holdover.

[lawyerwannabe]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

Pretty sure if you got the mortgage on the fixture after already purchasing the fixture, then the initial mortgagee gets the stove (ignoring any race-notice potential issues).

If the second mortgage was incurred simultaneously with the fixture (e.g. a PMSI) and the second mortgagee recorded that interest within twenty days of its purchase, then they would have priority in that fixture over the first mortgagee even if the first mortgagee recorded their interest.

[lawyerwannabe]

Slightly knitpicky, but I cannot find this in my notes but remember seeing it.

Could someone explain reasonable force used to stop a fleeing criminal (could be deadly or non-deadly and felon or misdemeanor). Thanks!

[Guchster]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

Also, if you were going down the PMSI route where a third party gives someone a loan for the stove and then another mortgagee comes along and takes the property, the analysis looks slightly different:

1. UCC rule is that an interest first recorded generally wins (so a security interest in chattel will win because it gives constructive notice to mortgagee/mortgagors that personal property on the land is encumbered).

2. But for a PMSI loan--i.e., you used the loan money to pay for the stove--the PMSI creditor prevails even over a prior recorded mortgage on the land as long as its recorded within 20 days.

So in other words, if its a PMSI, the creditor will prevail over the mortgagee as long as he records his interest within 20 days.

[turquoiseturtle]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

How did you get a mortgage using a fixture? Or did you mean you got a PMSI loan?

Generally, absent an agreement, a mortgage attaches to all fixtures on the real estate. But the buyer and seller can carve out exceptions by agreement to this rule.

I'm a little bit confused about fixture stuff as well, but on a slightly different point. In the lecture, it was implied that it has to be "objectively" clear that you don't mean for the fixture to stay with the land. And I really feel like in the lecture it was made to seem like that standard is rarely met, so that a landlord can keep fixtures. But then all the MBE questions I've encountered have very much been the opposite, looking at the tenants subjective intent and almost always they can take the fixture with them when they leave.

[harmonep07]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

Pretty sure if you got the mortgage on the fixture after already purchasing the fixture, then the initial mortgagee gets the stove (ignoring any race-notice potential issues).

If the second mortgage was incurred simultaneously with the fixture (e.g. a PMSI) and the second mortgagee recorded that interest within twenty days of its purchase, then they would have priority in that fixture over the first mortgagee even if the first mortgagee recorded their interest.

But she didn't mention an initial mortgage for the purchase of the stove. Once you installed the fixture as a tenant, if you had the intent for it to remain I think it becomes affixed to the property. At that point, I don't think you as the tenant could mortgage it. If you do, I don't think the fixtures mortgagee would be protected by the recording act.

[turquoiseturtle]

Slightly knitpicky, but I cannot find this in my notes but remember seeing it.

Could someone explain reasonable force used to stop a fleeing criminal (could be deadly or non-deadly and felon or misdemeanor). Thanks!

The level of reasonable force allowed depends on if you're a cop or a private person. (also this is on pg 21 of the CMR) I'm assuming you're asking about effectuating arrests of fleeing felons. The standard to prevent a crime is slightly different.

If you're a cop: Nondeadly force is always allowed if reasonably necessary. Deadly force is allowed if reasonably necessary to prevent a felon's escape and the police officer reasonably believes the felon is dangerous.

If you're a private person: All the same requirements as cops, except that nondeadly force require that the crime was ACTUALLY committed and the private person has reasonable grounds to believe the person committed it. For deadly force, the felon must because actually guilty of the offense.

So to further split it: no deadly force ever for a misdemeanor, regardless of whether its a cop or a private person.

[lawyerwannabe]

property MBE question...

so let's say i install a fixture in the house. the lease is silent on fixtures. then i get a mortgage using the fixture. lease ends. and i default on the mortgage.

who gets the stove?

this is a really poor summary of a question i had come across. and i'm still a bit confused on it.

Pretty sure if you got the mortgage on the fixture after already purchasing the fixture, then the initial mortgagee gets the stove (ignoring any race-notice potential issues).

If the second mortgage was incurred simultaneously with the fixture (e.g. a PMSI) and the second mortgagee recorded that interest within twenty days of its purchase, then they would have priority in that fixture over the first mortgagee even if the first mortgagee recorded their interest.

But she didn't mention an initial mortgage for the purchase of the stove. Once you installed the fixture as a tenant, if you had the intent for it to remain I think it becomes affixed to the property. At that point, I don't think you as the tenant could mortgage it. If you do, I don't think the fixtures mortgagee would be protected by the recording act.

Ya. RC fail.

For this situation I believe the standard is if the premises can be restored to their prior condition and removal can be done within a reasonable amount of time (which is usually before termination of the lease unless the lease was terminated by the LL and the tenant did not have sufficient prior notice).

[harmonep07]

Slightly knitpicky, but I cannot find this in my notes but remember seeing it.

Could someone explain reasonable force used to stop a fleeing criminal (could be deadly or non-deadly and felon or misdemeanor). Thanks!

(1) Police: can use (a) non-deadly force to arrest for any crime, (b) can use deadly force only if necessary to prevent escape of a fleeing felon AND he reasonably believes the felon poses a risk of death or serious injury.

(2) Regular people: same as police except (a) can only use non-deadly force to arrest if a crime has actually been committed and they have reasonable grounds to believe the person committed it and (b) can only use deadly force if the person in fact committed the crime.

[turquoiseturtle]

THIS PAGE NEEDS MORE PUPPIES OMGGGGGGG

<--- my dogs, Pepper (the german shepherd) and Jack (the golden retriever).

Also adorable!