California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread Forum

[jarofsoup]

I am not sure how to spot the format in a PT like Beene v Frost where it is not provided for you. That is what the persons options are... what are the advice you can give me? Or is this an outlier PT.

[JJDancer]

yes to everything said in the past few posts. But, we can do this! Just keep on chugging on.

[a male human]

I am not sure how to spot the format in a PT like Beene v Frost where it is not provided for you. That is what the persons options are... what are the advice you can give me? Or is this an outlier PT.

Breene v. Frost (July 2006 PT-B for everyone's reference)? Never done that before. Took a quick look and it's a client letter. It also gives 4 sections you must have, including an objective analysis. I'd say that's the meat of it.

Please draft for my signature an opinion letter, following the format and guidelines described in the firm's memorandum on opinion letters, explaining to Breene what options are available to him and which one we recommend to him.

• State the facts that led to the client's need for advice. --> statement of facts, X paragraphs depending on the complexity
• State your understanding of the client's goal or goals. --> I'd probably do a bullet point or heading per goal.
• Identify options the client has or the actions the client could take to achieve those goals. --> Not sure what the situation is. Paragraph under each bullet point/heading
• Objectively analyze each of the client's options or possible actions in light of the applicable law and the relevant facts. Be sure to identify the likely success in achieving the client's goals of pursuing each option or action. --> Typical legal memo

[pkt63]

I am just so grateful right now that the latest season of The Walking Dead hasn't been released on Netflix and that I finished Scandal and OITNB weeks ago. I'd feel even more guilty right now, but god knows I'd be binge watching it anyway.

[Mr. Pink]

I haven't looked at it either, but if it is a client letter, I know they are big on using lay terms in the letter. You have to know your audience, and your client isn't likely to understand many legal terms and doctrines, so you have to spell it out. Like I said, haven't seen that particular one, but that's been my experience with client letters

[jarofsoup]

I am not sure how to spot the format in a PT like Beene v Frost where it is not provided for you. That is what the persons options are... what are the advice you can give me? Or is this an outlier PT.

Breene v. Frost (July 2006 PT-B for everyone's reference)? Never done that before. Took a quick look and it's a client letter. It also gives 4 sections you must have, including an objective analysis. I'd say that's the meat of it.

Please draft for my signature an opinion letter, following the format and guidelines described in the firm's memorandum on opinion letters, explaining to Breene what options are available to him and which one we recommend to him.

• State the facts that led to the client's need for advice. --> statement of facts, X paragraphs depending on the complexity
• State your understanding of the client's goal or goals. --> I'd probably do a bullet point or heading per goal.
• Identify options the client has or the actions the client could take to achieve those goals. --> Not sure what the situation is. Paragraph under each bullet point/heading
• Objectively analyze each of the client's options or possible actions in light of the applicable law and the relevant facts. Be sure to identify the likely success in achieving the client's goals of pursuing each option or action. --> Typical legal memo

Thanks. the overall structure, but it was identifying the options and actions. It is stolen from questions that the attorney asks the client during a conversation. Just was not very clear during my first read that they did this.

[WonkyPanda]

I'm praying to every deity that we're not the first CA Civ Pro guinea pigs.

[pkt63]

Anyone in this thread taking at Oakland? I am not nearby and won't have a chance to stop by and check out the facility ahead of time. Any basic info, like on which street is the main entrance or anything else you may learn from visiting the location, I would appreciate the info SO MUCH!!!!

[CalBar2014]

Does anyone have the elements for strict products liability nailed down? The lecture gave the following:

(1) D is a merchant
(2) Product must be defective (manufacture, design, warning)
(3) Product was defective when left manufacturer/not been altered
(4) Foreseeable use by the plaintiff.

CMR is all over the place, but has the following:

(1) Strict duty owed by commercial supplier
(2) production or sale of defective product
(3) actual and proximate cause
(4) damages

These are somewhat different. What am I missing? Also, is "assumption of the risk" in a contributory negligence jurisdiction a valid defense or not?

Thank you in advance for any help!

I know the answer. Numbers (3) and (4) from the lecture go under actual and proximate cause from the CMR. Better to go with the CMR outline of the elements, rather than the lecture elements. Numbers (1) and (2) between the lecture and CMR are pretty much the same.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Carryon]

question about promoter liability. the rule is a promoter is personally liable for any acts on behalf of a corporation before incorporation. i know novation of contract would be an exception. however, does the corporation's adoption (express or implied) of the contract or its benefits relieve a promoter of personally liability?

i ask because i read an answer that stated a promoter can still be personally liable absent a subsequent novation, even if the corporation later adopted the contract.

Novation, where all parties agree to relieve the promoter of liability for pre-incorporation contracts, is the only avenue to relieve promoter's liability on the contract. Adoption makes the corporation also liable.

great, thanks.

Promoter can also be indemnified after adoption right?

According to cmr, promoter has a right of idemnification. However, I notice some of the old essay non student model answers (e.g feb 2007, fedb 2005) state that the promoter may not compel reimbursement from the corporation if the act is not done under the direction of the corporation, even though the promoter did it in good faith on behalf of the corporation. This sounds a bit confusing. Any thoughts from you or anybody else?

[CalBar2014]

For those worried about the MBE and don't trust the scores they are getting from BarBri, I'd suggest spending $50 and taking one of the NBCE 100-question tests found here: http://store.ncbex.org/

I took another bar exam a few years ago and remember the actual MBE being easier than the BarBri practice I had done. Most notably, the actual MBE questions are shorter. After going through some BarBri tests and getting scores lower than I wanted, and almost not finishing 100 questions in under 3 hours, I was starting to get concerned. I took a practice MBE from NBCE and (1) scored higher (about 10%) and (2) finished much earlier than I anticipated. The questions from NBCE are more what I remember from that actual MBE. And the analysis that the test spits back also gives you a breakdown where you fit relative to the average.

I thought it was worth the $50. My .02.

[jarofsoup]

For those worried about the MBE and don't trust the scores they are getting from BarBri, I'd suggest spending $50 and taking one of the NBCE 100-question tests found here: http://store.ncbex.org/

I took another bar exam a few years ago and remember the actual MBE being easier than the BarBri practice I had done. Most notably, the actual MBE questions are shorter. After going through some BarBri tests and getting scores lower than I wanted, and almost not finishing 100 questions in under 3 hours, I was starting to get concerned. I took a practice MBE from NBCE and (1) scored higher (about 10%) and (2) finished much earlier than I anticipated. The questions from NBCE are more what I remember from that actual MBE. And the analysis that the test spits back also gives you a breakdown where you fit relative to the average.

I thought it was worth the $50. My .02.

I am debating doing this. At the same time I am nervous I will bomb it and freak out.

[Anonnn]

Con Law question: I was just doing Barbri's Mixed Subject Set 3 for the MBE and question 11 was essentially as follows.

"Federal Agency issued call for bids to supply SUVs without antipollution device and with size 4,000 engine. Supplier in state A won the contract with lowest bid. State A prohibits the making of any vehicles without antipollution device and prohibits engines bigger than size 2,500. Supplier files suit to declare law not enforceable as to its work, result?"

Correct answer was statute conflicts with the supremacy clause. Looking at the outlines they all simply just say "state cannot regulate federal government." But is this really always true? Can the state NEVER apply a general law that just so happens to regulate what people produce FOR the federal government within it's borders?

Also how are people testing themselves on CA Civ Pro since we don't have any essays to go off (since its never been tested)?

[Carryon]

Con Law question: I was just doing Barbri's Mixed Subject Set 3 for the MBE and question 11 was essentially as follows.

"Federal Agency issued call for bids to supply SUVs without antipollution device and with size 4,000 engine. Supplier in state A won the contract with lowest bid. State A prohibits the making of any vehicles without antipollution device and prohibits engines bigger than size 2,500. Supplier files suit to declare law not enforceable as to its work, result?"

Correct answer was statute conflicts with the supremacy clause. Looking at the outlines they all simply just say "state cannot regulate federal government." But is this really always true? Can the state NEVER apply a general law that just so happens to regulate what people produce FOR the federal government within it's borders?

Also how are people testing themselves on CA Civ Pro since we don't have any essays to go off (since its never been tested)?

I think that I will look through the outline. I notice one difference between Fed and Ca Civ Pro is that CA Civ Pro is fact pleading rather than notice pleading for Fed Civ Pro.

[adonai]

Minimum competency is such a high bar. PTs, carry me.

[FutureInLaw]

Advice question. Since the recent talk of the importance and difficulty of PTs, I submitted Ochoa to Barmax for grading.

Got a 75.

For those who have done more PTs (I've only done 3), is Ochoa representative? Should I take the 75 as a sign I'm pretty good with PTs? Or is this one on the easier side? Trying to figure out whether spending more time on PTs is worth it.

Thanks.

[Carryon]

Advice question. Since the recent talk of the importance and difficulty of PTs, I submitted Ochoa to Barmax for grading.

Got a 75.

For those who have done more PTs (I've only done 3), is Ochoa representative? Should I take the 75 as a sign I'm pretty good with PTs? Or is this one on the easier side? Trying to figure out whether spending more time on PTs is worth it.

Thanks.

Do Feb 2013 ptb, it will help you study UCC concepts. You can kill two birds with one stone.

Did they give any comments or just a score? If they did give you comments, were they helpful? I am tempted to send them a pt that i did (Feb 2013 ptb).

[adonai]

Advice question. Since the recent talk of the importance and difficulty of PTs, I submitted Ochoa to Barmax for grading.

Got a 75.

For those who have done more PTs (I've only done 3), is Ochoa representative? Should I take the 75 as a sign I'm pretty good with PTs? Or is this one on the easier side? Trying to figure out whether spending more time on PTs is worth it.

Thanks.

I didn't do Ochoa, but I did do 6 others. My highest was also a 75. I never got anything near that score again. PTs are really a crapshoot. They can range from extremely easy to ridiculously flip the table difficult. The July 2013 PTs I heard were killer. I would try those and if you feel comfortable with them then I'd say you're set.

Edit: Actually, I did do Ochoa now that I think about it. It was the heli-skiing one right? I remember that one being easy-moderate. I remember my classmates also saying how easy it was. I actually had a lot of time to do the analysis on that one. Not trying to discount your 75 in any way, which is excellent.

[Law-So-Hard]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

[boozehound]

Down shifting to Scotch studying mode. Laphroaig is totally different and yummy. Glenlivet 15 is fantastic. Anywho, CA Bar can go F*** itself as far as I'm concerned now. I'm pretty sure I'll pass, but at least I don't care anymore. Peace out!

[Carryon]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

[Carryon]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

If the older ones have model answers, then at least outlining your answers for them would be beneficial. The old ones may have questions or issues that may be on this exam.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

If the older ones have model answers, then at least outlining your answers for them would be beneficial. The old ones may have questions or issues that may be on this exam.

Good question... was wondering the same thing. Seems like all of the essays I've been reading the past couple hours have been from the 1990s. Either they're a waste of time because they're different now, or they're the "pot of gold" of issues that could resurface again.

[ilovesf]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

If the older ones have model answers, then at least outlining your answers for them would be beneficial. The old ones may have questions or issues that may be on this exam.

Good question... was wondering the same thing. Seems like all of the essays I've been reading the past couple hours have been from the 1990s. Either they're a waste of time because they're different now, or they're the "pot of gold" of issues that could resurface again.

barbri has one in their book that is 27 years old. i definitely laughed at how old it was.

[Kiwi917]

Time value of doing old essays? Ones from the 1990s or even older than 10 years. Worth it? Newer essays seem to have a different feel to them. Older ones seem to have had more issues available to discuss while new ones are more analytical IMO. (and also, kind of weird/left field-y)

If the older ones have model answers, then at least outlining your answers for them would be beneficial. The old ones may have questions or issues that may be on this exam.

Good question... was wondering the same thing. Seems like all of the essays I've been reading the past couple hours have been from the 1990s. Either they're a waste of time because they're different now, or they're the "pot of gold" of issues that could resurface again.

I don't think they would be bad to skim for issue spotting, but I would worry a little about getting confused by outdated law, at least in areas with relatively significant changes in the last decade (Crim Pro, maybe Community Property?). I am finding that outlining recent essays and reading model answers, even for ones I did back in May/June, is reinforcing the rules and helping me get better at organizing my answers quickly. But if it is issue-spotting you want to practice and you have run out of fresh material, the older essays might be the only option.