Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[MrMustache]

To add to the many things wrong with the progress bar, mine is currently malfunctioning: it says I've completed 1% for the day already even though I'm still working through my first task out of six.

Okay, this is really weird. Done with the lectures, so now Themis thinks I'm done for the day. I think this glitch is gonna mess up my distribution of work for the rest of the time.

Did you work late last night? I've had Themis glitch on me like this on several occasions when I had worked past 11 p.m. the day before. Just ignore the progress bar and do whatever is assigned for today. It'll reset tomorrow and continue as normal.

[kjartan]

I love how McElroy insists that every topic "is a great place to rack up points."

EVERY one except property lol. Her stupid tips always make me get questions wrong though.

(best evidence rule is pretty much never the right answer)
(4 questions in a set have best evidence rule as a correct answer)

Yeah why do they always say things are never tested and then give a disproportionately large number of questions on those topics?

I LOVE that her advice is always, "just know the rules cold." Cool, thanks for your helpful tips!

[kateebee]

WHY ISN'T THE MARYLAND EVIDENCE OUTLINE IN THE "DISTINCTIONS" FORMAT!?!!?! ARGGGHHHH ALMOST EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AS MBE/FRE I DON'T NEED TO READ THIS WHOLE DAMNED THING AND THE DISTINCTIONS LECTURER IS UTTERLY USELESS ARGGHHHHHH

Sorry folks just needed to vent.

THISSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I emailed and got such a confusing answer that I just said screw it. :/

[eloise16]

To add to the many things wrong with the progress bar, mine is currently malfunctioning: it says I've completed 1% for the day already even though I'm still working through my first task out of six.

Okay, this is really weird. Done with the lectures, so now Themis thinks I'm done for the day. I think this glitch is gonna mess up my distribution of work for the rest of the time.

Did you work late last night? I've had Themis glitch on me like this on several occasions when I had worked past 11 p.m. the day before. Just ignore the progress bar and do whatever is assigned for today. It'll reset tomorrow and continue as normal.

I think something has been generally off about the progress bar today because mine was set at 1.8% for the day, which is already really unusually high. Then, I finished all of my assigned tasks, but the progress bar only said I had completed .7% for the day and it wouldn't move. I was getting really frustrated so I walked away and came back and it all of the sudden showed I had met my 1.8% for the day... soooo.. it's definitely acting a lil crazy

[Tripl3Espresso]

Themis has me reviewing 3 subjects tomorrow with MBE for all 3 and an essay for 2. Is that out of the ordinary in mid-June?

[MrMustache]

You guys weren't kidding about the Evidence guy. Wow.

[GULCPerson]

Themis has me reviewing 3 subjects tomorrow with MBE for all 3 and an essay for 2. Is that out of the ordinary in mid-June?

Have you taken the midterm exam? The only time I've had a day that review heavy was when it asked me to drill Ks/property/torts right before Midterm 1.

[TheLegalOne]

Asked my advisor about doing assignments open book and what we should be scoring. Her response was comforting so I'm posting part of it here:

"Ideally, all of these practice items, whether graded, should be done with your books closed - that is the only way to get a true sense of your timing and substantive knowledge as well as your ability to guess when you are unsure. That is really good rpactice for the real exam as you may indeed have to do so on July 28th. It's ok to review the substance/your notes before you sit down to write an essay for grading or before you answer a set of MBE PQs - you will have more time to study in July and you will be able to memorize most of the rules then.

It's way too early to be overly concerned about any scores! Every student starts out bar review in a different place. Some are good at Multiple Choice and standardized tests, and some are not naturally good at those questions. On average, I would say that most students begin near 45% for the first few sets of MBE PQs, regardless of the subject matter. For the MBE practice questions, about 50% correct right now is an expected level of competence. The Goal is currently set at 50% through the first 2 Milestone exams - simply because most students begin the process at or below the 50% mark. There is a Goal Ladder which will begin to rise after Milestone 2. Overall, on the MBE Qs for all subjects combined, you are shooting to score about 62% correct (That is 62 out of 100 Qs in the AM; 62 out of 100 Qs in the PM session - YOU CAN do that!).

Most students who do the essay assignments with their books closed should score around 50 points out of the possible 100. You can guage your own scores on all graded assignments by comparing to others within the course progress session results. Your goal is to have about 65-70 points or more overall on the actual bar exam (an average of the 5 essay answers). You will have strengths and weaknesses within the subejcts which are testable, but it's the overall result that matters, and you are well on your way!There is a long way to go until the actual bar exam, so you have plenty of time to improve your writing style and organization as well as your knowledge of the law."

I appreciate you sharing this with us. I want to caution you, however. I took Themis for the Feb cycle and I did every last essay closed book and timed (practice and actual submittals). I received 65 on each Themis graded essay and always felt like I was coming up short (but their feedback was vague). Additionally, I was at 65-80% on every single MBE set. I received 3 65's and 3 60's on the actual (CA) essays & MBE was 1462 (I think the MBE is accurate). I bombed the PTs. I am repeating and I'm getting 75s from Themis on practice essays with minimal/useless critiques - "do closed book, if you are not already doing so (which I am!)...great structure, use facts more." WTF!!!

However, I have had to submit a couple of the same essays to my tutor and I'm finding that I am not using facts to argue both sides nor make inferences where necessary. In fact, I'm scoring 10 pts lower! Be cautious of vague feedback and demand more! This is our future and our $$! P.S. I thought I did great because my scaled MBE was 1462 in Feb but my tutor was quick to say I needed to be at 150...nothing less. I'm not sure what to believe but I'm at 68.97% with 986 MBEs complete with Themis & my tutor says I need to step it up. I plan on talking to Themis about this because I'm super confused at this point. Just sharing!

[Nelson]

I love how McElroy insists that every topic "is a great place to rack up points."

EVERY one except property lol. Her stupid tips always make me get questions wrong though.

(best evidence rule is pretty much never the right answer)
(4 questions in a set have best evidence rule as a correct answer)

This pissed me off too.

[teeshtee]

40%

[Tripl3Espresso]

Themis has me reviewing 3 subjects tomorrow with MBE for all 3 and an essay for 2. Is that out of the ordinary in mid-June?

Have you taken the midterm exam? The only time I've had a day that review heavy was when it asked me to drill Ks/property/torts right before Midterm 1.

Yup, I did the first milestone exam on those subjects. I'm not behind schedule either. It looks like I'll have a lot of fun tomorrow unless their system adjusts my schedule at midnight.

[Underoath]

For criminal law I understand that we need to know common law, are you guys just ignoring when it says "modernly". I ask because what's the point of putting the material in the outline if it isn't even tested?

[Raiden]

Asked my advisor about doing assignments open book and what we should be scoring. Her response was comforting so I'm posting part of it here:

"Ideally, all of these practice items, whether graded, should be done with your books closed - that is the only way to get a true sense of your timing and substantive knowledge as well as your ability to guess when you are unsure. That is really good rpactice for the real exam as you may indeed have to do so on July 28th. It's ok to review the substance/your notes before you sit down to write an essay for grading or before you answer a set of MBE PQs - you will have more time to study in July and you will be able to memorize most of the rules then.

It's way too early to be overly concerned about any scores! Every student starts out bar review in a different place. Some are good at Multiple Choice and standardized tests, and some are not naturally good at those questions. On average, I would say that most students begin near 45% for the first few sets of MBE PQs, regardless of the subject matter. For the MBE practice questions, about 50% correct right now is an expected level of competence. The Goal is currently set at 50% through the first 2 Milestone exams - simply because most students begin the process at or below the 50% mark. There is a Goal Ladder which will begin to rise after Milestone 2. Overall, on the MBE Qs for all subjects combined, you are shooting to score about 62% correct (That is 62 out of 100 Qs in the AM; 62 out of 100 Qs in the PM session - YOU CAN do that!).

Most students who do the essay assignments with their books closed should score around 50 points out of the possible 100. You can guage your own scores on all graded assignments by comparing to others within the course progress session results. Your goal is to have about 65-70 points or more overall on the actual bar exam (an average of the 5 essay answers). You will have strengths and weaknesses within the subejcts which are testable, but it's the overall result that matters, and you are well on your way!There is a long way to go until the actual bar exam, so you have plenty of time to improve your writing style and organization as well as your knowledge of the law."

I appreciate you sharing this with us. I want to caution you, however. I took Themis for the Feb cycle and I did every last essay closed book and timed (practice and actual submittals). I received 65 on each Themis graded essay and always felt like I was coming up short (but their feedback was vague). Additionally, I was at 65-80% on every single MBE set. I received 3 65's and 3 60's on the actual (CA) essays & MBE was 1462 (I think the MBE is accurate). I bombed the PTs. I am repeating and I'm getting 75s from Themis on practice essays with minimal/useless critiques - "do closed book, if you are not already doing so (which I am!)...great structure, use facts more." WTF!!!

However, I have had to submit a couple of the same essays to my tutor and I'm finding that I am not using facts to argue both sides nor make inferences where necessary. In fact, I'm scoring 10 pts lower! Be cautious of vague feedback and demand more! This is our future and our $$! P.S. I thought I did great because my scaled MBE was 1462 in Feb but my tutor was quick to say I needed to be at 150...nothing less. I'm not sure what to believe but I'm at 68.97% with 986 MBEs complete with Themis & my tutor says I need to step it up. I plan on talking to Themis about this because I'm super confused at this point. Just sharing!

But will we get our money's worth by continue to push them? Or will they just continue to give us vague answers? Also thanks for sharing your experience! I think that just made me more scared, haha.

[Nanosoft]

*sigh*

Crim Law and Crim Pro were pretty fun as a law student, but these lectures are a major drag.

[TheLegalOne]

@Raiden - I'm hoping so. But we won't know if we don't try. I'm waiting on a response from my grader. I asked her if she would be specific and give me an example of how I could have used a particular set of facts differently. BTW, my intent wasn't to scare you. I was kind of writing out of frustration because I want to believe the "as long as you are trending at.." talk. But, been there, done that.

I'm sure my experience does not represent others. I just wanted to share.

[henry flower]

Is it just me, or are the explanations and answers for the questions labeled "the foregoing NCBE MBE question has been modified to reflect current NCBE stylistic approaches" markedly less helpful than those for the official questions? The questions seem to be a little lacking too, but the shortfall is a lot more noticeable when it comes to the explanations, which are shorter and feel sort of cursory.

It's unfortunate, because the answers (even for MBEs I got correct) have been my most helpful study tool by far.

[collegewriter]

@Raiden - I'm hoping so. But we won't know if we don't try. I'm waiting on a response from my grader. I asked her if she would be specific and give me an example of how I could have used a particular set of facts differently. BTW, my intent wasn't to scare you. I was kind of writing out of frustration because I want to believe the "as long as you are trending at.." talk. But, been there, done that.

I'm sure my experience does not represent others. I just wanted to share.

Yeah I definitely took her response with a grain of salt too...I think the problem is that a lot of bar courses sell you the idea that you will learn the stuff just by doing what they tell you and that you don't have to actively and really try to memorize and get better. Which I don't think is true for everyone. So when they say "yeah getting 50% is fine" I don't necessarily believe it. While it's comforting to know that these results are "normal" in a sense, I think what differentiates people who pass from those who fail are the ones who make an active effort to understand what they are doing wrong and fix it, which means deviating from doing the rote work assigned each day.

I'm not 100% clear on what your tutor told you to do differently. Do you mean that doing the essays closed book was not helping? Or just that Themis isn't being that helpful by telling us it's ok to be getting bad scores? My essay grader isn't great and I think I'm going to ask for a new one if the second essay comments aren't helpful.

[collegewriter]

Is it just me, or are the explanations and answers for the questions labeled "the foregoing NCBE MBE question has been modified to reflect current NCBE stylistic approaches" markedly less helpful than those for the official questions? The questions seem to be a little lacking too, but the shortfall is a lot more noticeable when it comes to the explanations, which are shorter and feel sort of cursory.

It's unfortunate, because the answers (even for MBEs I got correct) have been my most helpful study tool by far.

Agreed. I think there's a schism between how they modified it and what the explanation should be as compared to the original question, if that makes sense. Luckily there have only been a few of those.

[kjartan]

Themis assigned my state-specific Evidence lectures today. I plan on watching one to see if they're as useless as everyone says. If so, I'm skipping that shit.

[gr8scOtt!]

[+] Spoiler

MD Crim Law Distinction: Prof says solicitation only applies to sexual offenses. Editor's note on outline says "Lecturer misspeaks, solicitation can apply to any crime." Assessment question: Solicitation applies to which offenses? My response: All crimes. Correct response? Sexual offenses.

WTH???

[Confused7]

I love the Con Law/Civ Pro guy and generally find him enjoyable, but holy cow are there exceptions missing in the lectures after doing some MBEs.

[zot1]

Themis messaged me here about the progress bar to tell me I should contact tech support. I HAD DONE THAT. By the time I got this message, Tech support had not reply. They did just now, but they do not know what happened because they just asked me to fix the time zone, which had already been set just fine.

Dear Themis, do not contact me through here. This is a space for bar takers to do all sorts of whining. I contact you through the official channels when needed. Learn to give a fella some space.

Rant over.

[Mad Hatter]

Looks like Clark teaches combined federal/state evidence for IL.



*nods*
"great"

[smalogna]

Submitted graded essay on time on Friday. Still no grade. Cool.

[always_raining]

Themis messaged me here about the progress bar to tell me I should contact tech support. I HAD DONE THAT. By the time I got this message, Tech support had not reply. They did just now, but they do not know what happened because they just asked me to fix the time zone, which had already been set just fine.

Dear Themis, do not contact me through here. This is a space for bar takers to do all sorts of whining. I contact you through the official channels when needed. Learn to give a fella some space.

Rant over.

Maybe they will see how the incorrect explanations for things are driving all of us mad, and pretend to care.