Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[094320]

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[hous]

Are you guys completing everything Themis assigns you daily? I'm not, and I'm getting worried.

They sent out an email saying we should be between a certain percentage complete with the course and I was within the range, albeit on the lower end, but still within the range. I'm wondering if I need to do more to catchup. I spend more time on the lectures and actually review my notes before doing essay PQs, but I'm worried I'm falling too far behind and am considering just rushing through the material to catchup. I'm only at 32% complete with the Florida program which is probably a good 10% behind, but I'm scoring pretty well with the MBE PQ's (70-80%). I'm not sure whether I should switch up my study habits.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I am only at 20% complete - well behind the 32%. I am not that worried.

Also - regarding the feedback from your "personal attorney adviser" - what a joke. My feedback: "you need more robust rule statements." Really? Thanks for your thorough analysis... Looks like I am on my own!

[champ33]

Concur with what's been said about grader feedback. Mine has just said "Good analysis" or "Very good analysis" after each answer, with nothing else. Thought about writing in to ask for more detailed feedback. I'd like at least to know whether they are using anything like the grading method the bar examiners use. I doubt it.

[Tanicius]

Has anyone completed the Secured Transactions graded essay about Kitchenware's loan with Bank and a purchase of two copper sheet installment deliveries from Copperco? I'd like to cross reference and see if I was anywhere even close to the ballpark of a correct answer. The order of the questions really threw me off. The answer to the second question, as far as I could tell, did not differ even 1% from the answer to the first question, and it just seemed too simple to be true. Please PM me if you've completed the essay so we can discuss what we spotted as far as issues.

[Gotti]

LOLOLOL i just took my first NJ torts essay and failed so badly that i'm laughing at myself.

(NJ tests on MBE subjects--there are no distinctions)

[swan87]

For the practice (non-graded) essays, do you find it helpful to write them all out? Or could it be just as helpful to outline them and see if your outline lines up the the model answer?

[Tanicius]

For the practice (non-graded) essays, do you find it helpful to write them all out? Or could it be just as helpful to outline them and see if your outline lines up the the model answer?

I've been outlining more and more. The TRAC method hasn't been too difficult for me to deal with, so it's not what I'm worried about. Generally, I seem to be okay if I can successfully outline about 70% of the issues by the ten-minute mark.

I do try to frame the rule statements in numeric categories and sub-alphabetic categories like I would on the real essay though.

[Genuine4ps]

Are you guys reading the essay facts twice like Themis recommends? I feel like that is a significant waste of time.

[Tanicius]

Are you guys reading the essay facts twice like Themis recommends? I feel like that is a significant waste of time.

I basically copy down in short-hand every fact, including dates, and then give it a really quick skim-over to see if I've missed anything. It takes about five minutes to get everything important down, and by then I have a good understanding of the facts.

[071816]

I don't like this Alan Calnan guy

[LSATmakesMeNeurotic]

Can someone explain this to me?

In 2003, a government employee was appointed to a tribunal established pursuant to a congressional act. The tribunal's duties were to review claims made by veterans and to make recommendations to the Veterans Administration on their merits. Congress later abolished the tribunal and established a different format for review of such claims. The employee was offered a federal administrative position in the same bureau at a lesser salary. He thereupon sued the government on the ground that Congress may not remove a federal judge from office during good behavior nor diminish his compensation during continuance in office. Government attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the action.

The court should
A. Deny the motion, because of the independence of the federal judiciary constitutionally guaranteed by Article III.
B. Deny the motion, because the employee has established a property right to his federal employment on the tribunal.
C. Grant the motion, because the employee lacked standing to raise the question.
D. Grant the motion, because the employee was not a judge under Article III and is not entitled to life tenure.

Answer choice D is correct. Congress is limited in its restraints on the independence of the judiciary, and in particular under Article III, Section I, as to the ability to remove or impeach a federal judge. Federal judges may “hold their offices during good behavior” and may be removed only by impeachment. But the government employee here is not a federal judge. Here, answer choice A is incorrect because the employee is not a member of the federal judiciary. Answer choice B is incorrect because the employee has no such property right, absent other actions by the state which would create such a right. Answer choice C is incorrect because the employee would have standing, if he had been a federal judge.

I chose C because he wasn't a federal judge and therefore didn't have standing. WTF Themis?

[hous]

I am only at 20% complete - well behind the 32%. I am not that worried.

Also - regarding the feedback from your "personal attorney adviser" - what a joke. My feedback: "you need more robust rule statements." Really? Thanks for your thorough analysis... Looks like I am on my own!

Well I bombed my torts essay. Essay is definitely my weakness. I only got 1 point below the median on the torts essay but she must have been very gratuitous to me because I missed the entire discussion on warranties and negligent products liability.

[Gotti]

Can someone explain this to me?

In 2003, a government employee was appointed to a tribunal established pursuant to a congressional act. The tribunal's duties were to review claims made by veterans and to make recommendations to the Veterans Administration on their merits. Congress later abolished the tribunal and established a different format for review of such claims. The employee was offered a federal administrative position in the same bureau at a lesser salary. He thereupon sued the government on the ground that Congress may not remove a federal judge from office during good behavior nor diminish his compensation during continuance in office. Government attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the action.

The court should
A. Deny the motion, because of the independence of the federal judiciary constitutionally guaranteed by Article III.
B. Deny the motion, because the employee has established a property right to his federal employment on the tribunal.
C. Grant the motion, because the employee lacked standing to raise the question.
D. Grant the motion, because the employee was not a judge under Article III and is not entitled to life tenure.

Answer choice D is correct. Congress is limited in its restraints on the independence of the judiciary, and in particular under Article III, Section I, as to the ability to remove or impeach a federal judge. Federal judges may “hold their offices during good behavior” and may be removed only by impeachment. But the government employee here is not a federal judge. Here, answer choice A is incorrect because the employee is not a member of the federal judiciary. Answer choice B is incorrect because the employee has no such property right, absent other actions by the state which would create such a right. Answer choice C is incorrect because the employee would have standing, if he had been a federal judge.

I chose C because he wasn't a federal judge and therefore didn't have standing. WTF Themis?

Lollll I like the explanation: "Answer choice C is incorrect because the employee would have standing, if he had been a federal judge." ... wut

Also, property SUCKS ASS.

Edit: LMMN - the best I can come up with to support D as the answer is the fact that his status as a federal judge is the threshold question to determine whether or not he has standing, so the reason he doesn't have standing is BECAUSE he's not a federal judge. The question of whether he's a judge comes first to determine standing. Does that make sense?

[j1987]

I can't quote everyone, but here is my take on what I've seen so far:

1. My essay grader has been helpful so far and given me meaningful feedback aside from him completely screwing up how he scored my essay, but Themis said they are fixing that. I just did my second graded essay, so we will see what feedback my grader has for me this time around (I followed his advice, but completely had NO IDEA what the answer to the last question was so I put down the rules and BSed as much as I could).

2. I am considering giving up the long outlines after seeing this New York Practice & Procedure one. Over 100 pages, is this serious? I don't know how I am possibly going to memorize all of this stuff. Also, do we REALLY need to know every single statute of limitations in NY as well as what actions fall under those specific statutes? Ugh.

3. I haven't been doing every task that Themis has assigned on the day they assign it. Sometimes I go ahead and do a different subject rather than working on the essays (I always come back to the essays on a different day). I think it really is what works for you, so just follow what they give you and mix it up every once in a while if that's what you need.

[Genuine4ps]

I can't quote everyone, but here is my take on what I've seen so far:

1. My essay grader has been helpful so far and given me meaningful feedback aside from him completely screwing up how he scored my essay, but Themis said they are fixing that. I just did my second graded essay, so we will see what feedback my grader has for me this time around (I followed his advice, but completely had NO IDEA what the answer to the last question was so I put down the rules and BSed as much as I could).

2. I am considering giving up the long outlines after seeing this New York Practice & Procedure one. Over 100 pages, is this serious? I don't know how I am possibly going to memorize all of this stuff. Also, do we REALLY need to know every single statute of limitations in NY as well as what actions fall under those specific statutes? Ugh.

3. I haven't been doing every task that Themis has assigned on the day they assign it. Sometimes I go ahead and do a different subject rather than working on the essays (I always come back to the essays on a different day). I think it really is what works for you, so just follow what they give you and mix it up every once in a while if that's what you need.

I'm not in NY, so I'm not going to tell you what to do. But I don't see the point in reading the longer outline UNLESS you were actually going to try and retain that information. Even then, I think it's too much information and a bad strategy.

I'm not reading the long outlines. I hope this doesn't screw me, though, because Themis DOES say you should.

[d3sp]

Has anyone completed the Evidence workshops? I feel like that was a complete waste of time. The prof misspoke constantly, and his outline is anything but helpful. Also, has anyone noticed that while we are told the best evidence rule is almost never the right answer on the MBE it has been the right answer almost every time it's been asked--at least 4/5 times.

[Lilly76]

Has anyone completed the Evidence workshops? I feel like that was a complete waste of time. The prof misspoke constantly, and his outline is anything but helpful. Also, has anyone noticed that while we are told the best evidence rule is almost never the right answer on the MBE it has been the right answer almost every time it's been asked--at least 4/5 times.

In my first evidence MBE I missed nearly every question that had the best evidence rule as a possible answer because they said it was a frequently wrong answer.

[JJ556]

Has anyone completed the Evidence workshops? I feel like that was a complete waste of time. The prof misspoke constantly, and his outline is anything but helpful. Also, has anyone noticed that while we are told the best evidence rule is almost never the right answer on the MBE it has been the right answer almost every time it's been asked--at least 4/5 times.

In my first evidence MBE I missed nearly every question that had the best evidence rule as a possible answer because they said it was a frequently wrong answer.

My average for the Evidence MBE PQs would be ~80% if it wasn't for those damn best evidence questions. I got almost every one wrong for the first two or three practice sets.

[j1987]

I'm not in NY, so I'm not going to tell you what to do. But I don't see the point in reading the longer outline UNLESS you were actually going to try and retain that information. Even then, I think it's too much information and a bad strategy.

I'm not reading the long outlines. I hope this doesn't screw me, though, because Themis DOES say you should.

Yeah… Bronx Bum said he stopped reading the longer outlines and depended on the summary outlines that were given.

I just started the NY Practice lectures, and we do have to know the SOLs because they are frequently tested. Ugh.

[Tanicius]

Has anyone completed the Evidence workshops? I feel like that was a complete waste of time. The prof misspoke constantly, and his outline is anything but helpful. Also, has anyone noticed that while we are told the best evidence rule is almost never the right answer on the MBE it has been the right answer almost every time it's been asked--at least 4/5 times.

Yeah he's a fun guy but he got all kinds of stuff wrong, not all of it noted by the editor BTW.

[Gotti]

i don’t like these NJ sample answers at all. i think i make way better points.

also, i hate how they are actual student answers from when the question was given during the bar, instead of model answers.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Does anyone know if all of the questions on the Milestone Exams are real MBE questions from past exams? I tried to find the answer in our intro handout, but it wasn't clear... Thanks! Oh, and btw, I haven't decided if I'm getting Lean Sheets or not, but I searched and searched and found a good discount code if anyone decides to get them... it's "DUSTIN" and that should get you 25% off
If anyone has them, let me know if you think they're helpful - thanks! OH, and one more thing! I noticed Dr. Dennis Sacuzzo's CA Bar predictions for July 2014. PR, Crimes, Evidence, Contracts/Remedies, Real Property, Business Associations or Wills & Trusts... thoughts anyone?? Of course, don't rely on that - but I do think it's still worth pondering considering how OVERWHELMING all of this is... waaaaay too much material to memorize.

[Genuine4ps]

Does anyone know if all of the questions on the Milestone Exams are real MBE questions from past exams? I tried to find the answer in our intro handout, but it wasn't clear... Thanks! Oh, and btw, I haven't decided if I'm getting Lean Sheets or not, but I searched and searched and found a good discount code if anyone decides to get them... it's "DUSTIN" and that should get you 25% off
If anyone has them, let me know if you think they're helpful - thanks! OH, and one more thing! I noticed Dr. Dennis Sacuzzo's CA Bar predictions for July 2014. PR, Crimes, Evidence, Contracts/Remedies, Real Property, Business Associations or Wills & Trusts... thoughts anyone?? Of course, don't rely on that - but I do think it's still worth pondering considering how OVERWHELMING all of this is... waaaaay too much material to memorize.

First, thank you for the discount code. I'm really close to pulling the trigger. I just hope it doesn't deviate from Themis. DO NOT want to have to learn differently worded rules, definitions, etc.

Second, how exactly does this Sacuzzo come to his predictions? I thought it was absolutely random.

[Burgstaller04]

I've got my first Milestone exam tomorrow. Anyone taken one and know roughly how long they take? What does the Milestone involve? Is it just more practice MC questions?