THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[Itwasascam]

Mixed Problem Sets 1-6: 68, 74, 62, 74, 67, 62, 52(!!!)

I've never been great, but it looks like I'm getting worse and worse. I really hope Themis is just fucking with me and giving me harder sets, but I doubt that's the case. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong and how I'm doing worse despite feeling like I know more.

I have gone: 67-76-62-64-58-62-60

And I'm honestly not worried at all about my MBE. If you're above 60% you're fine

Is this true if you’re bombing the essays. I’ve only done 3 graded essays but I got a 6 and two 8’s out of 25

[CBlaw]

Anyone else loosing steam? Just been so lazy last couple of days. Only can get myself to do like 3-4 hours of work then i cant focus. Ready to just take the dam test now

[dabigchina]

Does anyone understand the Con Law question about the avocado growers and standing to sue?

None of the growers suffered an injury, but the correct answer says that they can still sue - without suffering injury - by getting an injunction to prevent "future" injury??

I thought that you must suffer injury first in order to have standing?

You can sue for future injury, but the future injury must be more concrete than a mere threat. TBH I have no idea what facts would indicate the future injury is more than a mere threat.

[Pajsa18]

Does anyone understand the Con Law question about the avocado growers and standing to sue?

None of the growers suffered an injury, but the correct answer says that they can still sue - without suffering injury - by getting an injunction to prevent "future" injury??

I thought that you must suffer injury first in order to have standing?

You can sue for future injury, but the future injury must be more concrete than a mere threat. TBH I have no idea what facts would indicate the future injury is more than a mere threat.

Ok thank you! I think it's because this injury would be caused by the passing of a statute - I totally missed the future injury / standing exception - thank you for the clarification!

[2015_Splitter]

Does anyone understand the Con Law question about the avocado growers and standing to sue?

None of the growers suffered an injury, but the correct answer says that they can still sue - without suffering injury - by getting an injunction to prevent "future" injury??

I thought that you must suffer injury first in order to have standing?

You can sue for future injury, but the future injury must be more concrete than a mere threat. TBH I have no idea what facts would indicate the future injury is more than a mere threat.

Ok thank you! I think it's because this injury would be caused by the passing of a statute - I totally missed the future injury / standing exception - thank you for the clarification!

I think the idea is that the future injury has to be imminent. There was a question with dairy producers with a law that was old on the books and had never been enforced. The dairy producers didn't have standing because the injury wasn't imminent since that law had never been enforced against anyone.

With the avocado guys, the law was recently implemented so they were likely going to face enforcement if they attempted to sell.

[abogado2018]

I've been getting good grades from Themis on my (CA) performance tests so far (ranging 65-80), I'm not a super fast typer and I have trouble spitting out a lot of pages. I'm averaging about 1300-1400 words. Do the bar examiners care about length at all?

[LawIsLyfe33]

Mixed Problem Sets 1-6: 68, 74, 62, 74, 67, 62, 52(!!!)

I've never been great, but it looks like I'm getting worse and worse. I really hope Themis is just fucking with me and giving me harder sets, but I doubt that's the case. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong and how I'm doing worse despite feeling like I know more.

I have gone: 67-76-62-64-58-62-60

And I'm honestly not worried at all about my MBE. If you're above 60% you're fine

Is this true if you’re bombing the essays. I’ve only done 3 graded essays but I got a 6 and two 8’s out of 25

Take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

It's a couple years old, but shows what people got on Themis or Barbri's Practice Test v. the actual exam. The average overage between all the courses was 25. So for example if you score a 120/200 (60%) on the practice exam this week it would correlate to about a 145 scaled MBE. Obviously take it for what it's worth.

[landshoes]

Anyone else loosing steam? Just been so lazy last couple of days. Only can get myself to do like 3-4 hours of work then i cant focus. Ready to just take the dam test now

I had this issue too last week. I took a day and a half off, which helped some. Also have been trying to just consciously quit at a certain point so I'm not spending hours sitting there trying to focus and getting nothing done.

[Pajsa18]

Does anyone understand the Con Law question about the avocado growers and standing to sue?

None of the growers suffered an injury, but the correct answer says that they can still sue - without suffering injury - by getting an injunction to prevent "future" injury??

I thought that you must suffer injury first in order to have standing?

You can sue for future injury, but the future injury must be more concrete than a mere threat. TBH I have no idea what facts would indicate the future injury is more than a mere threat.

Ok thank you! I think it's because this injury would be caused by the passing of a statute - I totally missed the future injury / standing exception - thank you for the clarification!

I think the idea is that the future injury has to be imminent. There was a question with dairy producers with a law that was old on the books and had never been enforced. The dairy producers didn't have standing because the injury wasn't imminent since that law had never been enforced against anyone.

With the avocado guys, the law was recently implemented so they were likely going to face enforcement if they attempted to sell.

That makes sense - I was missing both the future / imminent aspect - thank you!

[Itwasascam]

Mixed Problem Sets 1-6: 68, 74, 62, 74, 67, 62, 52(!!!)

I've never been great, but it looks like I'm getting worse and worse. I really hope Themis is just fucking with me and giving me harder sets, but I doubt that's the case. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong and how I'm doing worse despite feeling like I know more.

I have gone: 67-76-62-64-58-62-60

And I'm honestly not worried at all about my MBE. If you're above 60% you're fine

Is this true if you’re bombing the essays. I’ve only done 3 graded essays but I got a 6 and two 8’s out of 25

Take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

It's a couple years old, but shows what people got on Themis or Barbri's Practice Test v. the actual exam. The average overage between all the courses was 25. So for example if you score a 120/200 (60%) on the practice exam this week it would correlate to about a 145 scaled MBE. Obviously take it for what it's worth.

Is there anything similar for essays? I’m not too worried about the MBE, just afraid that I’ll bomb the essays

[Neilt001]

I've been getting good grades from Themis on my (CA) performance tests so far (ranging 65-80), I'm not a super fast typer and I have trouble spitting out a lot of pages. I'm averaging about 1300-1400 words. Do the bar examiners care about length at all?

Length def matters

Haha but seriously, in my opinion, writing more is always a good thing, so long as it's well structured with headings and signposting language etc. During the NYBX, the guy next to me spent like 10 minutes writing an outline by hand before he actually started typing his MPT, and I don't think he ended up writing that much (even though it may have been pure gold. Who knows).

On the other hand, I immediately started typing (after reading the material of course) and just didn't stop until the time was up. My MPTs were pretty long in the end, and I scored in the 90th percentile for the written part. They weren't genius answers by any stretch, but I feel like you'll hit most of the main points if you just keep typing arguments and counter-arguments until the time's up.

And the beautiful thing about laptops is that you can constantly go back and change your headings and structure, etc as you type. The argument always evolves so it's nice to go back and tweak things as you type, without wasting 10 minutes making a dumb outline.

[LawIsLyfe33]

Take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

It's a couple years old, but shows what people got on Themis or Barbri's Practice Test v. the actual exam. The average overage between all the courses was 25. So for example if you score a 120/200 (60%) on the practice exam this week it would correlate to about a 145 scaled MBE. Obviously take it for what it's worth.

Is there anything similar for essays? I’m not too worried about the MBE, just afraid that I’ll bomb the essays

Not that I could find. Although, most Themis graders grade way harder than the Bar Examiners.

[midtrains]

Does anyone know if there's a way to access the simulated exam early? I was set on taking the MPT/MEE today but of course I can't click on them from the home page or the practice exams page

[White Dwarf]

I've been averaging ~80% on the mixed MBE sets and decided to try Set 19 (34 questions) just to see if the difficulty would be any different... I got a 50.

Got more questions wrong (17) than I missed on the entire 100 question set. They threw every exception-to-the-exception question they had in that set. I really hope these sets are random, and Themis didn't deliberately set it up to try and murder your confidence right before you take the real test.

[Neilt001]

Take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

It's a couple years old, but shows what people got on Themis or Barbri's Practice Test v. the actual exam. The average overage between all the courses was 25. So for example if you score a 120/200 (60%) on the practice exam this week it would correlate to about a 145 scaled MBE. Obviously take it for what it's worth.

Is there anything similar for essays? I’m not too worried about the MBE, just afraid that I’ll bomb the essays

Not that I could find. Although, most Themis graders grade way harder than the Bar Examiners.

Yeah it's way harder to get a reliable essay practice score versus real bar exam score, partly because most states don't notify examinees what they got on essays (NY only tells you your MBE). Also because essays are scaled way differently than MBE.

And yes, I think it's true that Themis graders are harder than the bar. I usually scored between 2 and 4 out of 6, but ended up in the 90th percentile on the bar.

I wouldn't worry about stats, grades, etc. Just make sure you print out all the Themis model answers and learn them. Also IRAC and use headings. These are the best ways to increase your score I reckon. I bullshited a couple essays on exam day and still did well.

[Neilt001]

I've been averaging ~80% on the mixed MBE sets and decided to try Set 19 (34 questions) just to see if the difficulty would be any different... I got a 50.

Got more questions wrong (17) than I missed on the entire 100 question set. They threw every exception-to-the-exception question they had in that set. I really hope these sets are random, and Themis didn't deliberately set it up to try and murder your confidence right before you take the real test.

My sense has always been that the Themis tests are random. Well, they're not random because I think you're doing the same test as everyone else, so it's not a randomizer that chooses PQs each time. But they are random in terms of their difficulty. I don't think Themis makes any sets deliberately harder, though it may certainly seem like that sometimes.

I was the same as you - sometimes I'd do well and feel good, then I'd write a simulated test or a 100Q set and get murdered.

[Neilt001]

Does anyone know if there's a way to access the simulated exam early? I was set on taking the MPT/MEE today but of course I can't click on them from the home page or the practice exams page

There's no way to access the online simulated exams early. However, you can do the hardcopy simulated exams in the MBE exam book if you want to get started early. Then when the day comes, you just enter your answers.

This is what I did, and it's also what my Themis rep told me when I asked them the same question.

[Neilt001]

Take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

It's a couple years old, but shows what people got on Themis or Barbri's Practice Test v. the actual exam. The average overage between all the courses was 25. So for example if you score a 120/200 (60%) on the practice exam this week it would correlate to about a 145 scaled MBE. Obviously take it for what it's worth.

Is there anything similar for essays? I’m not too worried about the MBE, just afraid that I’ll bomb the essays

Not that I could find. Although, most Themis graders grade way harder than the Bar Examiners.

Yeah it's way harder to get a reliable essay practice score versus real bar exam score, partly because most states don't notify examinees what they got on essays (NY only tells you your MBE). Also because essays are scaled way differently than MBE, and practice graders are all over the place.

And yes, I think it's true that Themis graders are harder than the bar. I usually scored between 2 and 4 out of 6 on graded essays, but ended up in the 90th percentile on the bar.

I wouldn't worry about stats, grades, etc. Just make sure you print out all the Themis model answers and learn them. Also IRAC and use headings. These are the best ways to increase your score I reckon. I bullshited a couple essays on exam day and still did well by sticking to the formula.

[aclang24]

Out of curiosity, when are people starting to do the essays without looking at notes? I've already done this with the multiple choice, but I still don't feel comfortable going off-book for essays, as I've only started memorizing stuff in the past week. Is there a strategy for slowly weaning myself off of notes for essays?

[RareExports]

Does anyone know what MBE percentage should be targeted to pass in a 266 jurisdiction? I understand that it varies, but I have seen divergent answers from 60% to 70%. Would be helpful to have a more refined target.

Also, to respond to earlier discussion, I'm not sure the MBE sets get harder. My scores so far are: 74/74/68/70/75/68/66/76/80/72/72/60/68, though I probably have gotten better over time, so maybe the fact that there has been no trend is an indication that the sets become more difficult.

[Neilt001]

Does anyone know what MBE percentage should be targeted to pass in a 266 jurisdiction? I understand that it varies, but I have seen divergent answers from 60% to 70%. Would be helpful to have a more refined target.

Also, to respond to earlier discussion, I'm not sure the MBE sets get harder. My scores so far are: 74/74/68/70/75/68/66/76/80/72/72/60/68, though I probably have gotten better over time, so maybe the fact that there has been no trend is an indication that the sets become more difficult.

You'll want to be scoring around 66% raw, but it's impossible to say because it depends on how examinees do on MBE day and how things get curved. But generally 66% will earn you a pass.

Scoring 66% or thereabouts on Themis is likely to translate into a higher raw score on your MBE. For example I scored in the high 60s for most of my study but ended up with a 75% raw MBE score (or 85th percentile).

[Neilt001]

Out of curiosity, when are people starting to do the essays without looking at notes? I've already done this with the multiple choice, but I still don't feel comfortable going off-book for essays, as I've only started memorizing stuff in the past week. Is there a strategy for slowly weaning myself off of notes for essays?

Personally, I think it's a waste of time to force yourself to write a full essay if you don't know the answer. I mean yeah, maybe you'll get practice on bullshitting essays (which, admittedly, is important on exam day because I ended up bullshitting a couple essays that were totally out of left field).

But really, just try to answer it based on what you know thus far, and if you don't know the answer, then just try to issue spot and dot point. The real learning (in my opinion) comes from copying and pasting the model answer, deleting fact-related stuff, printing it, and then highlighting/marking it up so you learn the rule. That way you'll know for next time. Themis does a good job of covering most of the potential areas you'll be tested on.

You see, almost all Themis essays target different areas of the subject, so (for the most part) you'll often be at a loss as to how exactly to answer it. However, once you've studied the model answer, you should then be in a good position to answer questions on those topics going forward. Of course, you should also know the subject well in case you get curve balls, but I think the model answer give a good idea about how to approach essays in each subject.

By the end of my study, I hadn't actually written *that* many full essays, but I did have all the model answers memorized.

[Pajsa18]

My Themis rep said that 60% overall was the goal for Missouri MBE, and a 6/10 on essays.

She also said that Themis recalibrates to purposely test you on areas you get consistently wrong, so it’s an automated and individualized assessment and not “random” but tailored to test your specific weak points.

I should mention - Missouri passing is 260

[Allux]

What score do we need to get on simulated exam?? Just finished, dropped 8% on afternoon session

[Pajsa18]

What score do we need to get on simulated exam?? Just finished, dropped 8% on afternoon session

I’m not sure - she told me to shoot for 60% overall MBE - she also said if we were “lower scoring” - which I think means sub-60% on average (for Missouri) - that the average test taker in that category sees a 5%-8% bump between the simulated MBE and the final / real score