Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[northwood]

Not gonna lie, you people are extremely intense for 6/11. You all need a chill pill. July 4th is when you really start to "study/memorize". July 15th should be when the fear hits you. Then August 1st you're telling everyone you probably failed to brace for the worst. Then August 15th you say to yourself "wait lol WTF? That was actually really easy. There's no way I fail an exam that 90% of ABA approved graduates pass." Then you forget about it and then you check every day once October 15th comes.

This is good advice. No way in hell, though, it's gonna have an impact on a bunch of neurotic TLSers.

Lol yeah. Makes me really happy to be out of law school.

staying as far away from the law library and other law students/bar preppers is a good idea

[071816]

Not gonna lie, you people are extremely intense for 6/11. You all need a chill pill. July 4th is when you really start to "study/memorize". July 15th should be when the fear hits you. Then August 1st you're telling everyone you probably failed to brace for the worst. Then August 15th you say to yourself "wait lol WTF? That was actually really easy. There's no way I fail an exam that 90% of ABA approved graduates pass." Then you forget about it and then you check every day once October 15th comes.

Thank you sir for putting this all in perspective and reminding me that law students are indeed scum (myself included).

[SilverE2]

Got my first graded essay back. Got an overall grade of 73/100. The average score on this essay was a 63 as per the chart under the graded essay list.

What does this score mean about my skills/ability on an actual bar essay? Anyone?

It means that, on your first practice essay, you did a bit better than average. It's definitely not a bad thing. But I wouldn't draw any further conclusions from your score, other than you gave up 27 points.

[Gotti]

why were 2 out of 3 questions on my "NY Real Property Distinctions" practice essay based exclusively on my knowledge of NY family law (revocation of consent in private placement adoption and parental rights of an unwed father)?

[j1987]

why were 2 out of 3 questions on my "NY Real Property Distinctions" practice essay based exclusively on my knowledge of NY family law (revocation of consent in private placement adoption and parental rights of an unwed father)?

I am guessing a. because that is how the real questions will be and b. because the NY differences are mostly vocabulary, and they can't really adequately test on that in an essay? I was wondering the same thing, but that was the conclusion I reached.

[themis513]

Anyone else losing their sanity over NY criminal law and procedure distinctions?? Lowest MBE score so far

[Tanicius]

Anyone else losing their sanity over NY criminal law and procedure distinctions?? Lowest MBE score so far

Your MBE section has state distinctions?

[themis513]

Anyone else losing their sanity over NY criminal law and procedure distinctions?? Lowest MBE score so far

Your MBE section has state distinctions?

Because there are so many state distinctions I am messing up my MBE, as I am having trouble with memorization in general

[Genuine4ps]

How are all of you memorizing the info? Are you making flashcards, outlining, simply reading the outlines/handouts, something else?

[swfangirl]

How are all of you memorizing the info? Are you making flashcards, outlining, simply reading the outlines/handouts, something else?

Mostly just reading outlines/handouts. Occasionally I'll just jot lists or whatever down on a piece of paper that help organize things conceptually. For example, I have one short list of which torts you can get nominal damages for and which you can't.

Also have a single page that summarizes the property terms of fee simple determinable, reversion, etc. The organization of the page made it pretty easy to remember.

[WonkyPanda]

Well, did the first milestone and I got a 66%. Not sure how I feel about that. It says the avg. is 63%, but there's just something inherently off-putting when you score 66% on something.

[071816]

I'm below the national averages on all the MBE subjects.

[bedefan]

How are all of you memorizing the info? Are you making flashcards, outlining, simply reading the outlines/handouts, something else?

Building a mind palace, a la Sherlock.

Seriously though, it's much more fun than flashcards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci

So one room in my Con Law palace is the "hall of scrutinies." Among other people and things in the room is a woman in a billowy dress getting married to a guy with a horse whip, Tim Duncan officiating, she's holding a folder labeled "Classified." Woman in dress = "least restrictive" means, guy with whip = "compelling" interest, Tim Duncan = fundamental rights (because he's so fundamentally sound!), folder = suspect classifications.

I guess what I like about it is that it makes studying for the bar a lot like watching a David Lynch movie. And if you miss something, you just add it to the room later on.

[sparty99]

I'm not sure ditching the long outlines is a great idea. For example, the handouts do not state the complete rules. For example, the handout notes that adultery is when one of the parties has engaged in a relationship with a third party. However, on the long outline, it notes that you must prove intent, inclination, and opportunity with regards to adultery.

It also lists the affirmative defenses available. Whereas, the handout only list one affirmative defense.

[hous]

I'm not sure ditching the long outlines is a great idea. For example, the handouts do not state the complete rules. For example, the handout notes that adultery is when one of the parties has engaged in a relationship with a third party. However, on the long outline, it notes that you must prove intent, inclination, and opportunity with regards to adultery.

It also lists the affirmative defenses available. Whereas, the handout only list one affirmative defense.

You will never be able to memorize everything in the long outlines. I think of bar preping about finding the most efficient way to pass the bar and broadly memorizing all the basic rules is more efficient then getting the nuances. Trying to catch all the small things can be detrimental to the bigger picture. However, if you are not struggling to stay on schedule then by all means spend more time on the long outlines.

[Gotti]

why were 2 out of 3 questions on my "NY Real Property Distinctions" practice essay based exclusively on my knowledge of NY family law (revocation of consent in private placement adoption and parental rights of an unwed father)?

I am guessing a. because that is how the real questions will be and b. because the NY differences are mostly vocabulary, and they can't really adequately test on that in an essay? I was wondering the same thing, but that was the conclusion I reached.

Yeah, I figured...I know that's how the real thing's gonna be BUT the first one I did was pure property so I was confused. Also, they CAN technically test on just MBE property with NY distinctions. Oh well.

[j1987]

I just found out the one professor I had been most excited to see isn't giving any of the civil procedure lectures. He was advertised as giving them at the Themis table at my school.

I feel so deceived.

[j1987]

why were 2 out of 3 questions on my "NY Real Property Distinctions" practice essay based exclusively on my knowledge of NY family law (revocation of consent in private placement adoption and parental rights of an unwed father)?

I am guessing a. because that is how the real questions will be and b. because the NY differences are mostly vocabulary, and they can't really adequately test on that in an essay? I was wondering the same thing, but that was the conclusion I reached.

Yeah, I figured...I know that's how the real thing's gonna be BUT the first one I did was pure property so I was confused. Also, they CAN technically test on just MBE property with NY distinctions. Oh well.

I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to memorize all of this crap.

[j1987]

I just found out the one professor I had been most excited to see isn't giving any of the civil procedure lectures. He was advertised as giving them at the Themis table at my school.

I feel so deceived.

Just kidding. He's doing the NJ one, not the NY/federal one.

[Tanicius]

I'm not sure ditching the long outlines is a great idea. For example, the handouts do not state the complete rules. For example, the handout notes that adultery is when one of the parties has engaged in a relationship with a third party. However, on the long outline, it notes that you must prove intent, inclination, and opportunity with regards to adultery.

It also lists the affirmative defenses available. Whereas, the handout only list one affirmative defense.

You will never be able to memorize everything in the long outlines. I think of bar preping about finding the most efficient way to pass the bar and broadly memorizing all the basic rules is more efficient then getting the nuances. Trying to catch all the small things can be detrimental to the bigger picture. However, if you are not struggling to stay on schedule then by all means spend more time on the long outlines.

Yeah, you definitely need to get comfortable with the fact that there will be some questions you just won't know the answer to, and you will realize you don't know the answer while taking the actual test. That's okay! Your realistic goal is 65 to 70% correct on every subject. As long as you're towing that line, you'll be okay. If anything, try to compartmentalize the topics where you are most likely unable to know the answers, and only spend time on them once you have gone through everything else.

For me, I followed Duffy's advice and decided that I wasn't going to spend a lot of time perfecting my knowledge of future interests. There are some convoluted Property MBE questions about multi-generational devises and conveyances that I pretty much always get wrong. I have a good understanding of the Rule Against Perpetuities, and I know the general rules for future interests, but when there's a long-ass paragraph that takes five minutes to read through and half a page of notes in the margins... nuh uh, I'm simply not wasting my time and brain power on that one stupid question.

Likewise, for Conlaw I have come to accept that there are just some facets of First Amendment law that I won't be able to wrap my head around. I can't understand when strict scrutiny always attaches, and I cannot always remember the ultra-nuanced elements for things like commercial speech regulation. I've decided that I'm only going to try perfecting these concepts in July; for the time being I am more than satisfied with my average of 70+% correct on Conlaw.

Another thing I'm considering:

- Not giving a shit about MEE-only topics like Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. So far, secured transactions hasn't been too complex, and it seems like a subject of finite depth, which is nice, but it takes me a really long time to get through the material, and I forget it in minutes. If I'm pressed for time come July, I'm going to make sure I have an extra-tight grip on Crim/Evidence/Torts/Conlaw, and spend the rest of my time getting better at my weakest MBE subjects, Property and Contracts.

[Genuine4ps]

I'm not sure ditching the long outlines is a great idea. For example, the handouts do not state the complete rules. For example, the handout notes that adultery is when one of the parties has engaged in a relationship with a third party. However, on the long outline, it notes that you must prove intent, inclination, and opportunity with regards to adultery.

It also lists the affirmative defenses available. Whereas, the handout only list one affirmative defense.

You will never be able to memorize everything in the long outlines. I think of bar preping about finding the most efficient way to pass the bar and broadly memorizing all the basic rules is more efficient then getting the nuances. Trying to catch all the small things can be detrimental to the bigger picture. However, if you are not struggling to stay on schedule then by all means spend more time on the long outlines.

Yeah, you definitely need to get comfortable with the fact that there will be some questions you just won't know the answer to, and you will realize you don't know the answer while taking the actual test. That's okay! Your realistic goal is 65 to 70% correct on every subject. As long as you're towing that line, you'll be okay. If anything, try to compartmentalize the topics where you are most likely unable to know the answers, and only spend time on them once you have gone through everything else.

For me, I followed Duffy's advice and decided that I wasn't going to spend a lot of time perfecting my knowledge of future interests. There are some convoluted Property MBE questions about multi-generational devises and conveyances that I pretty much always get wrong. I have a good understanding of the Rule Against Perpetuities, and I know the general rules for future interests, but when there's a long-ass paragraph that takes five minutes to read through and half a page of notes in the margins... nuh uh, I'm simply not wasting my time and brain power on that one stupid question.

Likewise, for Conlaw I have come to accept that there are just some facets of First Amendment law that I won't be able to wrap my head around. I can't understand when strict scrutiny always attaches, and I cannot always remember the ultra-nuanced elements for things like commercial speech regulation. I've decided that I'm only going to try perfecting these concepts in July; for the time being I am more than satisfied with my average of 70+% correct on Conlaw.

Another thing I'm considering:

- Not giving a shit about MEE-only topics like Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. So far, secured transactions hasn't been too complex, and it seems like a subject of finite depth, which is nice, but it takes me a really long time to get through the material, and I forget it in minutes. If I'm pressed for time come July, I'm going to make sure I have an extra-tight grip on Crim/Evidence/Torts/Conlaw, and spend the rest of my time getting better at my weakest MBE subjects, Property and Contracts.

Is this because some subjects are tested much more often than others? So you're kind of hedging your bets?

I think this is what I'm going to have to do. I'd rather have the most important stuff down cold than just be moderately good at everything. Hope this is a good strategy.

[bkenney2]

I'm not sure ditching the long outlines is a great idea. For example, the handouts do not state the complete rules. For example, the handout notes that adultery is when one of the parties has engaged in a relationship with a third party. However, on the long outline, it notes that you must prove intent, inclination, and opportunity with regards to adultery.

It also lists the affirmative defenses available. Whereas, the handout only list one affirmative defense.

You will never be able to memorize everything in the long outlines. I think of bar preping about finding the most efficient way to pass the bar and broadly memorizing all the basic rules is more efficient then getting the nuances. Trying to catch all the small things can be detrimental to the bigger picture. However, if you are not struggling to stay on schedule then by all means spend more time on the long outlines.

Yeah, you definitely need to get comfortable with the fact that there will be some questions you just won't know the answer to, and you will realize you don't know the answer while taking the actual test. That's okay! Your realistic goal is 65 to 70% correct on every subject. As long as you're towing that line, you'll be okay. If anything, try to compartmentalize the topics where you are most likely unable to know the answers, and only spend time on them once you have gone through everything else.

For me, I followed Duffy's advice and decided that I wasn't going to spend a lot of time perfecting my knowledge of future interests. There are some convoluted Property MBE questions about multi-generational devises and conveyances that I pretty much always get wrong. I have a good understanding of the Rule Against Perpetuities, and I know the general rules for future interests, but when there's a long-ass paragraph that takes five minutes to read through and half a page of notes in the margins... nuh uh, I'm simply not wasting my time and brain power on that one stupid question.

Likewise, for Conlaw I have come to accept that there are just some facets of First Amendment law that I won't be able to wrap my head around. I can't understand when strict scrutiny always attaches, and I cannot always remember the ultra-nuanced elements for things like commercial speech regulation. I've decided that I'm only going to try perfecting these concepts in July; for the time being I am more than satisfied with my average of 70+% correct on Conlaw.

Another thing I'm considering:

- Not giving a shit about MEE-only topics like Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper. So far, secured transactions hasn't been too complex, and it seems like a subject of finite depth, which is nice, but it takes me a really long time to get through the material, and I forget it in minutes. If I'm pressed for time come July, I'm going to make sure I have an extra-tight grip on Crim/Evidence/Torts/Conlaw, and spend the rest of my time getting better at my weakest MBE subjects, Property and Contracts.

Secured transaction is fine until that second to last lecture. I had to watch it twice to understand. Then got to the essay and was all like, "wait... what?" So, yea. I'll be ignoring Secured for a little while.

[puttycake]

With the essays, I think for me I'll just be drilling the template wording just so I can get started rather than staring at the screen blankly. Just being able to rattle off some law seems like a good idea. But yeah, there are definitely some aspects of some of these topics that I know I'm never going to grasp.

At this point, I don't know how people pass the CA bar.

[d3sp]

Is anybody getting worried that some of the days they assign only 4-5 hours worth of work? I can only read over the outline(s) so many times before it doesn't help anymore.

[puttycake]

Is anybody getting worried that some of the days they assign only 4-5 hours worth of work? I can only read over the outline(s) so many times before it doesn't help anymore.

If you're worried about it, you can work ahead. I don't get this worry, but we're all different.