Themis Bar Review Hangout - Feb. 2016 Exam Forum

[KTnKT]

anyone else feeling like it's a lot of information?!?!

Yes. Like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. But keep your head in the game because you do not want to go through this again. It suuuuucks.

Lol. I love that analogy. Great visual. Why can't the bar award points for creativity in explaining the law??

Right now I feel like a dog who is too intimidated by the blast of water, so I'm just drinking from the puddles left from the water blast.

[left shark]

anyone else feeling like it's a lot of information?!?!

Yes. Like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. But keep your head in the game because you do not want to go through this again. It suuuuucks.

Lol. I love that analogy. Great visual. Why can't the bar award points for creativity in explaining the law??

Right now I feel like a dog who is too intimidated by the blast of water, so I'm just drinking from the puddles left from the water blast.

It is pretty great, right? It's how a friend of mine described law school to me after his first year. You are not alone at those puddles. I, too, am that dog.

Speaking of avoidance, did you do the Advanced Sales essay and/or the graded MPT? I tried the MPT but my brain froze, so I checked out. I know I need to do at least a couple before game day, but today's the deadline and I just don't see it happening. As for the Advanced Sales essay, I really can't slack on it because you just know the BLE is looking for another curve ball to throw, and that could be it. (and for extra meanness, they'd preclude the warranty issues because yeah)

[KTnKT]

anyone else feeling like it's a lot of information?!?!

Speaking of avoidance, did you do the Advanced Sales essay and/or the graded MPT? I tried the MPT but my brain froze, so I checked out. I know I need to do at least a couple before game day, but today's the deadline and I just don't see it happening. As for the Advanced Sales essay, I really can't slack on it because you just <i>know</i> the BLE is looking for another curve ball to throw, and that could be it. (and for extra meanness, they'd preclude the warranty issues because yeah)

I did them both. My heart reallllly weren't in them though, so I just got through them and hit enter. Scores will suck. It's hard getting up the energy for a fully invested go at the MPT. Necessary evil, but still difficult to convince myself. I don't feel like my MPTs are getting better. I'm just a little less flustered doing them.

I'm also still working up the courage to have a go at the second MBE practice test.

[left shark]

anyone else feeling like it's a lot of information?!?!

Speaking of avoidance, did you do the Advanced Sales essay and/or the graded MPT? I tried the MPT but my brain froze, so I checked out. I know I need to do at least a couple before game day, but today's the deadline and I just don't see it happening. As for the Advanced Sales essay, I really can't slack on it because you just <i>know</i> the BLE is looking for another curve ball to throw, and that could be it. (and for extra meanness, they'd preclude the warranty issues because yeah)

I did them both. My heart reallllly weren't in them though, so I just got through them and hit enter. Scores will suck. It's hard getting up the energy for a fully invested go at the MPT. Necessary evil, but still difficult to convince myself. I don't feel like my MPTs are getting better. I'm just a little less flustered doing them.

I'm also still working up the courage to have a go at the second MBE practice test.

Yeeeeeaaaaah, about that Milestone Exam. I haven't finished Evidence yet. Working full time and doing this is killing me.

[austinmom]

I did the MPT exam. It sucked. I got a 2, rounded down from a 2.6. I was beating myself up about it as I'm a lawyer in real life (in a jurisdiction I don't currently reside in) but then I realized that this particular format is not commonly tested. I went ahead and switched my focus to the objective memo, persuasive legal arguments and client letter and feel a lot better. Apparently I was getting tripped up on the idea of writing a legally persuasive argument to lay people and I didn't do legal cites.

Right now, I'm reading through an MPT, forming my outline and then thoroughly reading through the point sheets without actually writing out a full answer. Seems to be the best bet in terms of time as I have little of it. Trying to be a full time mom to two little kids while studying is no joke.

[jaimeg314]

Any of you guys know how/where to find out the percentage "checkpoints"? I know I'm behind, but I'd like to know just how badly- and hopefully set some realistic goals for catching up.

Yes, in the home screen on the left of the green "Course Progress" button is the "Course Schedule" link. After clicking that, a PDF is downloaded, and you can open it and check off the boxes in it to compare where you are at vs. where the suggested PDF schedule says you should be at.

Just finished the practice MPT (which I thought was kind of hard) and about to start the practice "Advanced Sales" essay. For comparison's sake, I should be at 42.8% after that, which I think puts me about 1-day behind.

I've got the paper schedule, but I was hoping themis had the same kind of thing barbri does, where you know that hey, next Friday I should be at X%. Of course, the percentage doesn't really matter when my checklist is so devoid of check marks. Here's hoping I can cram 4 days' worth of stuff into this weekend. Damn you, BLE.

I am dreading that practice MPT. I didn't think last July's was that hard, but cleeeeaaarly I was wrong, judging by my score sheet. The themis lecture suggested some things that I hadn't thought of/been taught before, so maybe it won't be so bad.

Oh I get your initial question now. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

I'm barely passing 50% completion today. I wonder if that's behind or not?

[KTnKT]

I'm barely passing 50% completion today. I wonder if that's behind or not?

Probably behind their schedule, but I'm at 47% so you're ahead of me.

[left shark]

I'm barely passing 50% completion today. I wonder if that's behind or not?

Just got an answer from the Associate Director (who is awesome about answering all my freaked out emails!). There isn't anywhere in the module that we can check the recommended progress percentage, but she said that we should be at 60% by the end of the week. I can totally go from 41.8% to 60% in 2.5 days, right? Yeeeaah, no.

But she also said this:

"Don't let it stress you out too much if you aren't quite there; remember the most important thing is that you are learning the material and getting in tons of practice via essays and MBE questions."


So I'm going to just trust her that I am not screwed.

[Lemon Lyman]

Yikes 60%? I'm at 40%. I've been gaining some ground by not spending time on the long-form outlines unless I have a specific question about the lecture handout. I figure there's more than enough information on those.

I've gotta somehow do Milestone 2 and get through 8 state-specific subjects by the practice MBE next week. I'm probably going to push that back a day or two since the schedule includes Fed Tax, Bankruptcy etc. for a day.

Does anyone know (or remember) if the "MBE Analysis" videos for after the practice MBE are worth watching?

[rvp20]

anyone else feeling like it's a lot of information?!?!

Yes. Like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. But keep your head in the game because you do not want to go through this again. It suuuuucks.

Lol. I love that analogy. Great visual. Why can't the bar award points for creativity in explaining the law??

Right now I feel like a dog who is too intimidated by the blast of water, so I'm just drinking from the puddles left from the water blast.

It is pretty great, right? It's how a friend of mine described law school to me after his first year. You are not alone at those puddles. I, too, am that dog.

Speaking of avoidance, did you do the Advanced Sales essay and/or the graded MPT? I tried the MPT but my brain froze, so I checked out. I know I need to do at least a couple before game day, but today's the deadline and I just don't see it happening. As for the Advanced Sales essay, I really can't slack on it because you just know the BLE is looking for another curve ball to throw, and that could be it. (and for extra meanness, they'd preclude the warranty issues because yeah)

Long time lurker...now finally providing some input into the board

I did them both.

I think advance sale was a complete waste of time. It's contracts all over again with some minor differences.

The graded MPT, however, I thought was a good one. The ones you do through the lectures are about an objective memo and a persuasive memo, but the graded MPT puts a bit of a twist to that, which I appreciated. Gotta practice different stuff you know?

[left shark]

Re: Guardianship or Trust essay question

Some of you guys may already know this, but I figured I would post it anyway just in case. I didn't see the changes in the Themis materials.

I talked to a friend of mine who is using barbri and she said their lecturer is predicting trusts because of the changes made to guardianship law in the last legislative session. I went to the Texas Legislature site (because I am sick of MBE practice questions!) and found the biggest changes (IMO):

1. Courts are now required to find, by clear and convincing evidence, that less restrictive alternatives to guardianship were considered and found not feasible, and that the support and services available that would eliminate the need for guardianships were considered and found not feasible.

2. The application for guardianship must include a statement that alternatives to guardianship and support and services that would eliminate the need for a guardianship were considered.

3. A bill of rights for wards under guardianship was created, which includes rights to information, support services, consideration of personal preferences, timely health care, privacy, communication and visitation with persons of the ward's choice, and the right to petition a court for capacity restoration or modification of the guardianship. Ward is authorized to enforce these rights in the court having jurisdiction over the guardianship, and authorizes the award of attorney's fees to an attorney appointed or retained to represent the ward.

4. Criminal history information must be obtained for a family member seeking a guardianship, in addition to other persons planning to represent the interest of a ward or guardian.

A few other big legislative changes I ran across related to the P&E:

1. Position of jury commissioner has been eliminated for the selection and impaneling of a grand jury. District Court must impanel 12 qualified persons as grand jurors and four alternates (used to be two).

2. Jurors are now required to recuse themselves from grand jury service if they could be subject to valid challenge for cause. Grand juror who knowingly failed to recuse himself could be held in contempt.

3. Added to the list of general qualifications for jury service that the person is a citizen of the U.S. and a "resident" (as opposed to a citizen) of Texas and the county in which the person is to serve.

[swtlilsoni]

help!

I am doing okay learning the material, I understand most of it. But it is not sticking! I can't do the practice questions (especially especially the essays) without referring to my outlines. How are you people memorizing this stuff??

[Tubrid]

help!

I am doing okay learning the material, I understand most of it. But it is not sticking! I can't do the practice questions (especially especially the essays) without referring to my outlines. How are you people memorizing this stuff??

I'm having the same issue. But remember that you're not expected to get everything right. You're going to miss an issue here or there on essays. When I write essays that aren't graded, I write down every rule I remember, then supplement my outline with the rules I didn't remember, then see how well I can analyze the facts in light of the rules. It helps me remember some of the more obscure rules a little better (here's looking at you, executor compensation for lawyer who also wrote the will being only half of standard executor compensation but legal fees still being 100% regardless).

And if there's something that's important that you want to just have down cold (e.g., attractive nuisance), then I would just take ten minutes to rewrite the rule for attractive nuisance over and over again in order to get some sort of muscle memory associated with it. Every little thing helps.

[KTnKT]

help!


And if there's something that's important that you want to just have down cold (e.g., attractive nuisance), then I would just take ten minutes to rewrite the rule for attractive nuisance over and over again in order to get some sort of muscle memory associated with it. Every little thing helps.

For me, it is too much stuff too. I'm memorizing a blanket 2-3 (depending on the subject) black letter law to spew out per subject. Otherwise, I'm just trying to read and memorize mistakes I make on the practice essays. Then just reading as many prompts and answers as I can to hope some of it sticks. Not easy, and I feel like I'm a lot further away than I should be at t-minus 20 days.

[left shark]

help!

I am doing okay learning the material, I understand most of it. But it is not sticking! I can't do the practice questions (especially especially the essays) without referring to my outlines. How are you people memorizing this stuff??

Prioritize rules where you can- as you read the practice essay questions (both on themis and on the ble site) you'll see some patterns. For wills, the popular topics are intestacy, what makes a will valid, and how to probate a lost will. For marital, know what is separate property* and what is community property. Also know the effect of how title is taken to property. For family, best interest of the child and guideline child support. Spousal maintenance is another popular topic. These are all things that get tested all the time. If you can rattle that stuff off, you have a solid basis for 5 likely essays of the 12 that will show up.

There is a ton of nuance, and common wisdom is that the BLE loves nuance in February. Because they're assholes. But get the general umbrella and you can tap dance your way through the other stuff if you absolutely have to. If you don't know a rule, MAKE ONE UP.


*maybe a helpful mnemonic to remember separate property: On Gilligan's Island Mary Ann Picked Coconuts

Owned before marriage
Gift
Inheritance
Mutation
Agreement
Personal injury recovery
Credit

[jaimeg314]

That Simulated MBE was rough, especially the PM session. Way harder than the practice questions, in my opinion.

[austinmom]

anybody doing Themis for Texas? Did I miss something or are they lacking on the Texas short answer lectures? I feel like the civil procedure lecture was literally the guy reading off the handout and the evidence and crim pro distinctions were pretty paltry. I couldn't even find Apex deposition info in the big outline book but it was included in one of the BLE's released answers.

[RetakeFTW]

anybody doing Themis for Texas? Did I miss something or are they lacking on the Texas short answer lectures? I feel like the civil procedure lecture was literally the guy reading off the handout and the evidence and crim pro distinctions were pretty paltry. I couldn't even find Apex deposition info in the big outline book but it was included in one of the BLE's released answers.

Yea this is my second time doing Themis and this is a part of the course that I thought is really lacking. Frankly I just had to make my own smaller outlines from the their outlines and didn't pay much attention to the videos. Do all the practice short answer q's and check their answers. Thankfully this is something the Bar repeats a ton, so you are unlikely to see many off-the-wall questions.

[Icametowin]

Anybody 2 weeks or more behind? And could you pls tell of your strategy to catch up if any?

I'm sinking in all the information wish I could take a day to clear my head. Am I the only one??!!

[rvp20]

With roughly 2.5 weeks left, I'm freaking the F out.

I "felt" like I had the material down and covered BUT I'm constantly hovering around 50~60% (sometimes below 50%) on the practice MBEs for the individual subjects. Going to take Milestone #2 tonight, so hopefully things get better. I think my problem is that too much of my decision making comes down to a 50/50 guess, which probably means that I don't have a complete and concrete grasp on the rules.

Thought I would just vent here. I'm so sick of hearing "everyone passes, don't worry" or "John/Jane managed to pass with two weeks of studying, don't worry."

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

[juniormint33]

With roughly 2.5 weeks left, I'm freaking the F out.

I "felt" like I had the material down and covered BUT I'm constantly hovering around 50~60% (sometimes below 50%) on the practice MBEs for the individual subjects. Going to take Milestone #2 tonight, so hopefully things get better. I think my problem is that too much of my decision making comes down to a 50/50 guess, which probably means that I don't have a complete and concrete grasp on the rules.

Thought I would just vent here. I'm so sick of hearing "everyone passes, don't worry" or "John/Jane managed to pass with two weeks of studying, don't worry."

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

To answer your question, my subject-specific practice MBEs were usually around 60%. But I'm a repeater, so I had seen a lot of those questions before, albeit several months ago. To give you some advice that you didn't ask for - your scores on those subject MBEs don't matter. I mean unless you're getting like 30%, which clearly you're not. That's how you're learning. Your score is irrelevant as long as you're understanding and learning the rules that you're getting wrong.

[swtlilsoni]

With roughly 2.5 weeks left, I'm freaking the F out.

I "felt" like I had the material down and covered BUT I'm constantly hovering around 50~60% (sometimes below 50%) on the practice MBEs for the individual subjects. Going to take Milestone #2 tonight, so hopefully things get better. I think my problem is that too much of my decision making comes down to a 50/50 guess, which probably means that I don't have a complete and concrete grasp on the rules.

Thought I would just vent here. I'm so sick of hearing "everyone passes, don't worry" or "John/Jane managed to pass with two weeks of studying, don't worry."

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

To answer your question, my subject-specific practice MBEs were usually around 60%. But I'm a repeater, so I had seen a lot of those questions before, albeit several months ago. To give you some advice that you didn't ask for - your scores on those subject MBEs don't matter. I mean unless you're getting like 30%, which clearly you're not. That's how you're learning. Your score is irrelevant as long as you're understanding and learning the rules that you're getting wrong.

But if you're understanding and learning, wouldn't your scores increase over time? If you are consistently getting around 50% doesn't that mean you aren't actually learning?

[rvp20]

With roughly 2.5 weeks left, I'm freaking the F out.

I "felt" like I had the material down and covered BUT I'm constantly hovering around 50~60% (sometimes below 50%) on the practice MBEs for the individual subjects. Going to take Milestone #2 tonight, so hopefully things get better. I think my problem is that too much of my decision making comes down to a 50/50 guess, which probably means that I don't have a complete and concrete grasp on the rules.

Thought I would just vent here. I'm so sick of hearing "everyone passes, don't worry" or "John/Jane managed to pass with two weeks of studying, don't worry."

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

To answer your question, my subject-specific practice MBEs were usually around 60%. But I'm a repeater, so I had seen a lot of those questions before, albeit several months ago. To give you some advice that you didn't ask for - your scores on those subject MBEs don't matter. I mean unless you're getting like 30%, which clearly you're not. That's how you're learning. Your score is irrelevant as long as you're understanding and learning the rules that you're getting wrong.

But if you're understanding and learning, wouldn't your scores increase over time? If you are consistently getting around 50% doesn't that mean you aren't actually learning?

Thanks for the replies.

That's exactly my frustration..scores aren't improving at all. I'm trying to be optimistic that i'ts not a linear relationship but somewhat like a "step" or "stairs" where the average jumps after certain amount of practices.

[jaimeg314]

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

I started off around 50%. I've improved over the past 5-6 weeks to an average of about 65% for most subjects. Some are in the 70s. One thing that helped me is focusing on the explanations for each question--even the ones I got correct.

[juniormint33]

With roughly 2.5 weeks left, I'm freaking the F out.

I "felt" like I had the material down and covered BUT I'm constantly hovering around 50~60% (sometimes below 50%) on the practice MBEs for the individual subjects. Going to take Milestone #2 tonight, so hopefully things get better. I think my problem is that too much of my decision making comes down to a 50/50 guess, which probably means that I don't have a complete and concrete grasp on the rules.

Thought I would just vent here. I'm so sick of hearing "everyone passes, don't worry" or "John/Jane managed to pass with two weeks of studying, don't worry."

What's the average score for you guys on the subject practice MBEs? Themis says the "goal" is 50%, but I have a feeling that's not sufficient.

Then again, I look back to the MPRE. I got 50~55% on the Themis practice tests but ended up with a score of 108 (top 10~15% percentile), so maybe Themis is right that 50% should be the "goal."

To answer your question, my subject-specific practice MBEs were usually around 60%. But I'm a repeater, so I had seen a lot of those questions before, albeit several months ago. To give you some advice that you didn't ask for - your scores on those subject MBEs don't matter. I mean unless you're getting like 30%, which clearly you're not. That's how you're learning. Your score is irrelevant as long as you're understanding and learning the rules that you're getting wrong.

But if you're understanding and learning, wouldn't your scores increase over time? If you are consistently getting around 50% doesn't that mean you aren't actually learning?

Thanks for the replies.

That's exactly my frustration..scores aren't improving at all. I'm trying to be optimistic that i'ts not a linear relationship but somewhat like a "step" or "stairs" where the average jumps after certain amount of practices.

Are you doing the mixed sets yet? Still getting 50s on those? I think the best tool for gauging how you're going to perform on the real thing are the Milestones - specifically the full one that's coming out on Sunday. If you do below 120 on that then you might want to start to worry.