Themis Bar Review Hangout - February 2015 Exam Forum

[numbertwo88]

I don't like pathetic answer explanation provided by Themis. Can someone explain why this is guilt based on extreme recklessness? For the record, I said not guilty, D.

A bank teller was fired by the president of the bank. The bank teller decided to take revenge against the bank president, but decided against attempting it personally, because he knew the bank president was protected around the clock by bank security guards. The bank teller knew that his friend had a violent temper and was very jealous. The bank teller falsely told his friend that his wife was having an affair with the bank president. Enraged, his friend said, "What am I going to do?" The bank teller said, "If it were my wife, I'd just march into his office and blow his brains out." The friend grabbed a revolver and rushed to the bank. He walked into the bank, carrying the gun in his hand. One of the security guards, believing a holdup was about to occur, shot and killed the friend.

If charged with the murder of his friend, the bank teller should be found ...

A guilty, based upon extreme recklessness.
B guilty, based upon transferred intent.
C not guilty, because he did not intend for his friend to be shot by the security guard.
D not guilty, because he did not shoot his friend and he was not acting in concert with the security guard.

[Tanicius]

I don't like pathetic answer explanation provided by Themis. Can someone explain why this is guilt based on extreme recklessness? For the record, I said not guilty, D.

A bank teller was fired by the president of the bank. The bank teller decided to take revenge against the bank president, but decided against attempting it personally, because he knew the bank president was protected around the clock by bank security guards. The bank teller knew that his friend had a violent temper and was very jealous. The bank teller falsely told his friend that his wife was having an affair with the bank president. Enraged, his friend said, "What am I going to do?" The bank teller said, "If it were my wife, I'd just march into his office and blow his brains out." The friend grabbed a revolver and rushed to the bank. He walked into the bank, carrying the gun in his hand. One of the security guards, believing a holdup was about to occur, shot and killed the friend.

If charged with the murder of his friend, the bank teller should be found ...

A guilty, based upon extreme recklessness.
B guilty, based upon transferred intent.
C not guilty, because he did not intend for his friend to be shot by the security guard.
D not guilty, because he did not shoot his friend and he was not acting in concert with the security guard.

It's a retarded question. I remember this one even from 7 months ago.

[wool]

Are there any repeat Themis takers doing the simulated MBE entirely online?

I refused to pay $200 or whatever it was for new books and... I almost regret it for this 1 task but not quite.

I have friends who are!

[robcali]

Never posted on a board before and sorry if someone answered this already but...

I am prepping for the Cal Bar now. I have already passed the bars of two states and in both states I passed the MBE with plenty of room to spare. When I do practice MBE questions that I know are old NCBE questions (from textbooks I have) I usually score what I expect to score in terms of percentages. But when I have done the mixed Themis MBE questions my score is noticeably lower in pretty much every subject.

Am I crazy or are these Themis questions trickier? Are they are testing more exceptions with their questions? If so, I can appreciate that because it will help me improve my knowledge, but it is having the unintended consequence of making me think everything I knew about MBE subjects in two other bar exams has inexplicably vanished.

[arizzle]

Never posted on a board before and sorry if someone answered this already but...

I am prepping for the Cal Bar now. I have already passed the bars of two states and in both states I passed the MBE with plenty of room to spare. When I do practice MBE questions that I know are old NCBE questions (from textbooks I have) I usually score what I expect to score in terms of percentages. But when I have done the mixed Themis MBE questions my score is noticeably lower in pretty much every subject.

Am I crazy or are these Themis questions trickier? Are they are testing more exceptions with their questions? If so, I can appreciate that because it will help me improve my knowledge, but it is having the unintended consequence of making me think everything I knew about MBE subjects in two other bar exams has inexplicably vanished.

You are not crazy. I think the Themis questions are ridiculous. For almost every practice set there are at least 3 or 4 questions that are asked so poorly I just disregard whether I got them right or wrong.

I think you're better off with the Strategies & Tactics questions.

[dueprocess14]

Never posted on a board before and sorry if someone answered this already but...

I am prepping for the Cal Bar now. I have already passed the bars of two states and in both states I passed the MBE with plenty of room to spare. When I do practice MBE questions that I know are old NCBE questions (from textbooks I have) I usually score what I expect to score in terms of percentages. But when I have done the mixed Themis MBE questions my score is noticeably lower in pretty much every subject.

Am I crazy or are these Themis questions trickier? Are they are testing more exceptions with their questions? If so, I can appreciate that because it will help me improve my knowledge, but it is having the unintended consequence of making me think everything I knew about MBE subjects in two other bar exams has inexplicably vanished.

You are not crazy. I think the Themis questions are ridiculous. For almost every practice set there are at least 3 or 4 questions that are asked so poorly I just disregard whether I got them right or wrong.

I think you're better off with the Strategies & Tactics questions.

This is good to know. I didn't find the questions too odd in the topic-specific practice questions or the milestone exams, but some of the all-sections practice questions are bizarre. And they also seem to easy overall - I'm suddenly doing considerably better than I did on the subject-specific ones. I'm beginning to wonder if they're a good tally of my actual prognosis...

[numbertwo88]

Never posted on a board before and sorry if someone answered this already but...

I am prepping for the Cal Bar now. I have already passed the bars of two states and in both states I passed the MBE with plenty of room to spare. When I do practice MBE questions that I know are old NCBE questions (from textbooks I have) I usually score what I expect to score in terms of percentages. But when I have done the mixed Themis MBE questions my score is noticeably lower in pretty much every subject.

Am I crazy or are these Themis questions trickier? Are they are testing more exceptions with their questions? If so, I can appreciate that because it will help me improve my knowledge, but it is having the unintended consequence of making me think everything I knew about MBE subjects in two other bar exams has inexplicably vanished.

You are not crazy. I think the Themis questions are ridiculous. For almost every practice set there are at least 3 or 4 questions that are asked so poorly I just disregard whether I got them right or wrong.

I think you're better off with the Strategies & Tactics questions.

This is good to know. I didn't find the questions too odd in the topic-specific practice questions or the milestone exams, but some of the all-sections practice questions are bizarre. And they also seem to easy overall - I'm suddenly doing considerably better than I did on the subject-specific ones. I'm beginning to wonder if they're a good tally of my actual prognosis...

Apparently they gradually get harder (the mixed sets) from what I recall during summer prep. And some of the questions are really ridiculous. However ... after taking the July MBE, I'm glad Themis is ridiculous with some of its questions.

[numbertwo88]

Did anyone notice Themis added another Civ Pro MBE set? So now there's 5 of them.

I just noticed it today. Kind of wished I received some kind of email/message about it. I've gone kind of crazy with my handwritten study schedule.

[wool]

Did anyone notice Themis added another Civ Pro MBE set? So now there's 5 of them.

I just noticed it today. Kind of wished I received some kind of email/message about it. I've gone kind of crazy with my handwritten study schedule.

I haven't seen that but probably because I am nowhere near being on the 5th set Have you noticed that the federal civil procedure questions are really specific? I mean I'm not complaining that Themis's questions are hard because I want to be prepared, but some of the answer explanations can't be found in the long outline or the lecture handout.

[sparty99]

Did anyone notice Themis added another Civ Pro MBE set? So now there's 5 of them.

I just noticed it today. Kind of wished I received some kind of email/message about it. I've gone kind of crazy with my handwritten study schedule.

They sent an email.....

[numbertwo88]

Ugh, I see it now, I think ... ? I see one about the Civ Pro lecture supplement + assessment questions. I guess they should've been a bit more specific - otherwise I didn't receive some kind of notification. But nevertheless, now I know. Albeit delayed.

[gaagoots]

I have Adaptibar and same question as the Themis one....here is the explanation from Adapti.

You correctly answered A.
EXPLANATION:

The correct answer is A. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Malice does not require the intent to kill; in some cases, there may be "implied malice" if there was gross or extreme recklessness to human life on the part of the defendant. In the question, the teller, knowing the man to be violent and jealous, lied to him, and suggested he commit murder. By taking actions that ensured the man would be walking into a heavily guarded bank with a gun, the teller acted with extreme recklessness; this is enough to show implied malice aforethought. Therefore, the teller should be found guilty of murder. An additional facet of the question raises the issue of whether the teller was a "proximate cause" of the man's death. The general test is whether the death was foreseeable; a defendant will be held criminally liable for the foreseeable consequences of their actions. In this case, by ensuring the man would enter a heavily guarded bank with the intent to kill the president and armed with a gun, it was foreseeable that the man would be killed.

Answer B is incorrect because transferred intent does not apply in cases where the actor doing the killing is different than the one who has the intent to kill the president. The teller's intent to kill the president will not transfer to the security guard's' action of killing the man. Answer C is incorrect because the "implied malice" doctrine does not require that the teller have the intent that the man be killed; it is sufficient that the death of the man was a foreseeable result of the actions the teller put into motion, and that those actions were taken with extreme recklessness. Answer D is incorrect because the charge does not require that the teller be the one to shoot the man or that he act in concert with the security guard. Because the teller proximately caused the death of the man and did so with malice aforethought, the teller should be found guilty of murder.

QUESTION:

A bank teller was fired by the president of a bank. The teller wanted to take revenge against the president, but decided against attempting it personally, because he knew the president was protected around the clock by bank security guards. The teller knew a man who had a violent temper and was very jealous. The teller falsely told the man that the man's wife was having an affair with the bank president. Enraged, the man said, "What am I going to do?" The teller said, "If it were my wife, I'd just march into his office and blow his brains out." The man grabbed a revolver and rushed to the bank. He walked into the bank, carrying the gun in his hand. One of the security guards, believing a holdup was about to occur, shot and killed the man.

If charged with murder of the man, the teller should be found
A. guilty, based upon extreme recklessness.
B. guilty, based upon transferred intent.
C. not guilty, because he did not intend for the man to be shot by the security guard.
D. not guilty, because he did not shoot the man, and he was not acting in concert with the security guard.

[Tanicius]

Yeah. Here's the reason the question is flawed:

By taking actions that ensured the man would be walking into a heavily guarded bank with a gun

It is at the very most only arguable that the defendant did something that would reasonably make that guy walk into a bank with a gun, let alone that he "ensured" it.

[numbertwo88]

Yeah ... I still don't like that question. I don't think there's any way anyone could explain why that is right or "more correct" in a satisfactory manner. But I'll be sure to mark any similar question the same should one pop up on the MBE in 2 weeks, even though deep down I think it's nonsense.

[TheLegalOne]

I'm reviewing the MBE Simulation Analysis and this lecturer is just rubbing salt in the wound! If I hear "this was a very easy question, IF you memorized the law," I'm going to lose it! REALLYY?? You don't say!

[numbertwo88]

I'm reviewing the MBE Simulation Analysis and this lecturer is just rubbing salt in the wound! If I hear "this was a very easy question, IF you memorized the law," I'm going to lose it! REALLYY?? You don't say!

I couldn't agree more. I listened to 3 subjects & didn't bother finishing the rest (time is precious). I was highly annoyed by his "easy" question remarks.

[TheLegalOne]

I'm reviewing the MBE Simulation Analysis and this lecturer is just rubbing salt in the wound! If I hear "this was a very easy question, IF you memorized the law," I'm going to lose it! REALLYY?? You don't say!

I couldn't agree more. I listened to 3 subjects & didn't bother finishing the rest (time is precious). I was highly annoyed by his "easy" question remarks.

I thought about skipping all of today's for the same reason - time is just too precious. I reviewed all of yesterday's and I'm on the second one for today. But, since I'm multi-tasking, I'm obviously not learning anything from it now. I'm moving on to tomorrow's PR essays. Oh, another one of his sayings....I completed my morning MBEs with plenty of time to spare telling myself "either you know it or you don't." Arrgh!! I obviously did not know the Civ Pro questions.

[TheLegalOne]

Does anyone know whether Themis will provide us with an overall/summary review of our individual performance? I started essays frustrated and now that I have received my final essay feedback, I end with the same frustration. I believe the acceptable score for Themis is 70 on the essays/PTs. I have received 3 65s and 5 60s (the last one, PR, being a 60-SMH!). I never hit a 70. I don't feel my feedback was in-depth, even though I frequently asked questions along the way. To be honest, the feedback was pretty superficial.

Although I averaged higher than the posted average on all but the PR essay, I can't help but feel underprepared. I completed all essays as closed-book and timed, so IMO, my performance is pretty much what it will be on test day. I'm just curious, overall, if my performance as of this date is indicative of what I can expect on the actual exam. If so, I'm screwed! Sorry for the long rant...Bottom line...Will Themis give us an individual final feedback summary? I asked this question of Themis but I have not received a response yet.

[numbertwo88]

Does anyone know whether Themis will provide us with an overall/summary review of our individual performance? I started essays frustrated and now that I have received my final essay feedback, I end with the same frustration. I believe the acceptable score for Themis is 70 on the essays/PTs. I have received 3 65s and 5 60s (the last one, PR, being a 60-SMH!). I never hit a 70. I don't feel my feedback was in-depth, even though I frequently asked questions along the way. To be honest, the feedback was pretty superficial.

Although I averaged higher than the posted average on all but the PR essay, I can't help but feel underprepared. I completed all essays as closed-book and timed, so IMO, my performance is pretty much what it will be on test day. I'm just curious, overall, if my performance as of this date is indicative of what I can expect on the actual exam. If so, I'm screwed! Sorry for the long rant...Bottom line...Will Themis give us an individual final feedback summary? I asked this question of Themis but I have not received a response yet.

Having used Themis over the summer too, I can affirm that they don't. That would be really helpful though!

[TheLegalOne]

Does anyone know whether Themis will provide us with an overall/summary review of our individual performance? I started essays frustrated and now that I have received my final essay feedback, I end with the same frustration. I believe the acceptable score for Themis is 70 on the essays/PTs. I have received 3 65s and 5 60s (the last one, PR, being a 60-SMH!). I never hit a 70. I don't feel my feedback was in-depth, even though I frequently asked questions along the way. To be honest, the feedback was pretty superficial.

Although I averaged higher than the posted average on all but the PR essay, I can't help but feel underprepared. I completed all essays as closed-book and timed, so IMO, my performance is pretty much what it will be on test day. I'm just curious, overall, if my performance as of this date is indicative of what I can expect on the actual exam. If so, I'm screwed! Sorry for the long rant...Bottom line...Will Themis give us an individual final feedback summary? I asked this question of Themis but I have not received a response yet.

Having used Themis over the summer too, I can affirm that they don't. That would be really helpful though!

Thanks for the response. I was really hoping they would since they take the time to check in with us (a personalized touch).

[wool]

Does anyone know whether Themis will provide us with an overall/summary review of our individual performance? I started essays frustrated and now that I have received my final essay feedback, I end with the same frustration. I believe the acceptable score for Themis is 70 on the essays/PTs. I have received 3 65s and 5 60s (the last one, PR, being a 60-SMH!). I never hit a 70. I don't feel my feedback was in-depth, even though I frequently asked questions along the way. To be honest, the feedback was pretty superficial.

Although I averaged higher than the posted average on all but the PR essay, I can't help but feel underprepared. I completed all essays as closed-book and timed, so IMO, my performance is pretty much what it will be on test day. I'm just curious, overall, if my performance as of this date is indicative of what I can expect on the actual exam. If so, I'm screwed! Sorry for the long rant...Bottom line...Will Themis give us an individual final feedback summary? I asked this question of Themis but I have not received a response yet.

Having used Themis over the summer too, I can affirm that they don't. That would be really helpful though!

Thanks for the response. I was really hoping they would since they take the time to check in with us (a personalized touch).

I really think it depends on what state you're in because although I haven't really taken advantage of it as much as I should have or could have, the Maryland advisors are really helpful and available and check in with you. At least in my experience.

[TTT_allstar]

I am getting around 70-80 percent on all subject specific MBE Qs (except property, where I can't break 60 percent), but just took a milestone exam and got a 49 percent. How does this happen?

Are the MBE questions substantially easier than Themis Qs?

[numbertwo88]

I am getting around 70-80 percent on all subject specific MBE Qs (except property, where I can't break 60 percent), but just took a milestone exam and got a 49 percent. How does this happen?

Are the MBE questions substantially easier than Themis Qs?

I think once you're into the mixed MBE question sets, after doing the single subject sets, it takes a little bit of a brain adjustment since you're switching from subject to subject as opposed to your brain being entirely in one subject.

People say the MBE questions are allegedly easier but I know Themis uses some real questions and some are created ... and after taking the July 2014 MBE I think they're pretty comparable although some Themis questions are long as hell.

[TTT_allstar]

Where should we be at as far as percent correct (on practice Qs) to be in safe passing territory for the mbe?

[TTT_allstar]

Is anyone still checking in here, or have you all just passed out/committed suicide from too much study?

I still haven't started studying for the MEE yet.