Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017 Forum

[lavarman84]

I did the simulated MBE today. Got 1.4% for doing it, and got 2.8% for skipping all the lectures.

Yea, it made me mad that it was worth so little considering how much time it takes and how much energy it takes. That's really stupid by Themis. The percentages don't make much sense.

[star fox]

I did the simulated MBE today. Got 1.4% for doing it, and got 2.8% for skipping all the lectures.

Yea, it made me mad that it was worth so little considering how much time it takes and how much energy it takes. That's really stupid by Themis. The percentages don't make much sense.

They're mad inconsistent with their %

[bmmccb223]

Is Adaptibar worth getting at this point? I'm somewhat ambivalent because the MBE is only worth 33% of my state's bar. I'd appreciate some advice.

[almondjoy]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

[star fox]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

These Graders are not the best.

[robin600]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

[J-english]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

Mine just continually tells me to outline my answers so I don't miss things. I've yet to receive a passing score... all are "borderline passing" And then a "Great Job! Keep up the good work!!"

[Puffman1234]

Can someone explain this to me? Con law substantive due process/equal protection question.

This was a question on the Themis simulated MBE:

Concerned about problems caused by overpopulation, a state legislature enacted a statute imposing
criminal penalties on any person who is the biological parent of more than two children. The stated
purpose of the statute was to preserve the state’s natural resources and improve the quality of life for the
state’s residents. After the statute took effect, a married couple who already had two children conceived a
third. After the wife gave birth to this child, the couple was arrested and convicted under the statute.
Which of the following is the strongest argument for voiding their convictions?

Two answers were clearly wrong. The remaining two were

(1) The statute places an unconstitutional burden on the fundamental privacy and procreative rights of married persons.
(2) The statute denies the couple their Equal Protection Rights.

The answer was #1, which I picked. I thought about picking #2, though. In the Themis answer explanation they say that the EP answer is not correct because the class is not suspect so all that needs to be satisfied is the rational basis test. I was thinking about this as I went to sleep last night.

In the Themis outline, it states that non-suspect-class-based discrimination is still subject to strict scrutiny where the use of the classification burdens fundamental rights. So, for this question, strict scrutiny seems like it should apply to the equal protection claim. While "people with 2 children" is not a suspect or quasi-suspect class, the classification is being used to burden this non-suspect-class' fundamental rights.

Also, the outline suggests that where a problem suggests that all person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for substantive due process, but that when only some person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for equal protection. Isn't the latter exactly what's happening in this question? Anyways, don't these two claims just overlap? I don't think you have to show that a law would universally deny a fundamental right to everyone else to show that it's violating YOUR substantive due process rights, do you? If you went to court on these facts you'd just allege both claims, and both would be viable, if somewhat redundant?

So in this question, both substantive due process and a equal-protection-burdening-of-fundamental-rights should be avenues for a claim, shouldn't they, and actually, EP is a better fit if you're supposed to go for EP when non-suspect-classifications burden fundamental rights?

[Bass]

Also, the outline suggests that where a problem suggests that all person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for substantive due process, but that when only some person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for equal protection. Isn't the latter exactly what's happening in this question?

I construed the statute to apply to all persons - i.e. none can have more than two children.

As opposed to a statute only affecting the procreation rights of parents with two children.

[Puffman1234]

Also, the outline suggests that where a problem suggests that all person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for substantive due process, but that when only some person's fundamental rights are being burdened, we should go for equal protection. Isn't the latter exactly what's happening in this question?

I construed the statute to apply to all persons - i.e. none can have more than two children.

As opposed to a statute only affecting the procreation rights of parents with two children.

I think there's definitely a classification—only biological parents of more than two children are targeted by being punished for exercising the fundamental right to have children. A biological parent of one child, or no children, would not be punished for exercising their fundamental right. So there's a distinction drawn on some sort of category—how many biological kids a person has had.

It also doesn't help that in the question the bar is on "biological parents who have two or more kids" but that the answer refers to the "rights of married persons." So the answer layers an additional classification on the classification in the question.

[bmmccb223]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

I've had the opposite experience. I feel like the grades I've been receiving have been too favorable for some of the essays that I've written. On the whole, though, my grader has been pretty helpful with his comments. Anyway, I doubt that there is a Themis policy to purposefully give low essay scores.

[almaz]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

I have had the same experience (Michigan exam?).

[yeslekkkk]

Anyone have any additional resources or videos for CA remedies?

[champloo]

lectures aren't playing for me

eta: nevermind working again

[Steve2207]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

Mine just continually tells me to outline my answers so I don't miss things. I've yet to receive a passing score... all are "borderline passing" And then a "Great Job! Keep up the good work!!"

My problem is the opposite. My grader has given me 3 consecutive 100%, and I know they are not written that well. I wish I had a more realistic grader so that I could gauge where I am actually at. I usually just generalize what I can remember about the rule, and she gives me full credit even when I miss an element or two. (I have gotten two 67%, which have been my lowest.)

[whats an updog]

Anyone have any additional resources or videos for CA remedies?

Yes. Any help on remedies would be great. Remedies and contracts essays just don't seem to organize well for me.

[michelle3908]

Thank you to whoever suggested the Emmanuel Strategies Book. That is certainly helping me with the MBE sections. And my book had a substantive review for civ pro that brought it all together in an easier to understand format compared to the lecture and the outline from Themis. I've ignored my course progress bar for a couple of days to read and use the book, and i feel it's well worth it. I will open Themis back up tomorrow and continue on with it and the Emmanuel book.

[lavarman84]

So does anyone feel like their grader purposefully gives low essay scores to scare you into studying? I just finished a graded essay, and because I didn't yet have the rule statements memorized cold and wanted to get feedback on my structure and analysis, I copied the rules word for word from the outlines/essay workshops. I get my comments back and they say (paraphrasing) "you could use some more studying to make your rule statements more clear". wtf? I legit copied them verbatim from the outlines. How can studying help make them more clear than that? ughh.

Dude I've only received one passing score on all my essays. I received below a 30 on my last one and got this feedback from my grader - "Good job. See the sample answer for areas you can bulk this up. Keep it up!"
Cool bro, super helpful with the scoring.

Mine just continually tells me to outline my answers so I don't miss things. I've yet to receive a passing score... all are "borderline passing" And then a "Great Job! Keep up the good work!!"

My problem is the opposite. My grader has given me 3 consecutive 100%, and I know they are not written that well. I wish I had a more realistic grader so that I could gauge where I am actually at. I usually just generalize what I can remember about the rule, and she gives me full credit even when I miss an element or two. (I have gotten two 67%, which have been my lowest.)

Yea, I don't think the grades matter. I keep failing, but I know based on the sample answers that some of my essays are good. I wrote a totally shitty essay (had no idea what the fuck was going on in a complicated Trusts essay question) and got my highest score. So yea...that made a lot of sense.

[yeslekkkk]

Thank you to whoever suggested the Emmanuel Strategies Book. That is certainly helping me with the MBE sections. And my book had a substantive review for civ pro that brought it all together in an easier to understand format compared to the lecture and the outline from Themis. I've ignored my course progress bar for a couple of days to read and use the book, and i feel it's well worth it. I will open Themis back up tomorrow and continue on with it and the Emmanuel book.

Yeah, I just did all the contracts problems the other day. I really don't care about my progress bar either. lol

[Slytherpuff]

Ugh my regional Themis director just called to check in and I let it go to voicemail since I didn't want to hear them tell me how behind in the course I am.

[quirky]

Ugh my regional Themis director just called to check in and I let it go to voicemail since I didn't want to hear them tell me how behind in the course I am.

Hahaha, I did the same thing yesterday. I called him back a few hours later and he was like "soooo any questions" I said no and that was it. No discussion of progress at all.

[SeewhathappensLarry]

I haven't gotten a single call all summer, I wonder why. I know it's not because of my amazing bar prowess

[michelle3908]

I haven't gotten a single call all summer, I wonder why. I know it's not because of my amazing bar prowess

Mine has been calling maybe once every 10 days or so to see how it's going, if I have questions, etc. She has also responded to me via the message portal a few times and then sends out mass messages every few days of study tips based on what she's hearing from people she calls, etc. I know when I see one of those I'm in the same boat as everyone else... (which happens to be the titanic headed for the iceberg about two more weeks.)

[IronCobra]

Has anyone else done the secured transactions/real property hybrid practice essay (ID 4091)? By far the most difficult practice essay I've done so far....

[cho8583]

Thank you to whoever suggested the Emmanuel Strategies Book. That is certainly helping me with the MBE sections. And my book had a substantive review for civ pro that brought it all together in an easier to understand format compared to the lecture and the outline from Themis. I've ignored my course progress bar for a couple of days to read and use the book, and i feel it's well worth it. I will open Themis back up tomorrow and continue on with it and the Emmanuel book.

Yeah, I just did all the contracts problems the other day. I really don't care about my progress bar either. lol

After hitting around 2100 qs, the next new qs seem to be repeated. So I have S&T book, and I plan to dig it fully for the remaining of the time. Good idea?