BarBri Bar Review Hangout - February 2016 Exam Forum

[MTBike]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

[fadedsunrise]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

[BrokenMouse]

.

[law732]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

[Gamecubesupreme]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

Nah, even in that case, you would need to show failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice. Don't think it's that big of an injustice to deny a kid an Xbox.

[MTBike]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

Nah, even in that case, you would need to show failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice. Don't think it's that big of an injustice to deny a kid an Xbox.

I think you're right (in reality), but for MBE land it's probably promissory estoppel

[law732]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

Nah, even in that case, you would need to show failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice. Don't think it's that big of an injustice to deny a kid an Xbox.

Assuming the kid makes roughly $1000 a year mowing lawns/cleaning his room/ect. The headphones alone can be over $200. Thats 20% of his annual income just on the headphones! I'd slap those parents with an old fashion bar prep Promissory Estoppel argument and walk out of there a winner

[Gamecubesupreme]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

Nah, even in that case, you would need to show failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice. Don't think it's that big of an injustice to deny a kid an Xbox.

I think you're right (in reality), but for MBE land it's probably promissory estoppel

That's actually the third prong of promissory estoppel though.

Under the doctrine of promissory estoppel, a party’s promise to make a gift is enforceable if:
i) the donor should reasonably expect the promise to induce detrimental reliance by the donee,
ii) the promise actually induces such reliance,
iii) and the failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice.

[MTBike]

Getting confused by "Gratuitous Assignment" vs. "Gratuitous Promises"

halp

I'll play.

Gratuitous Assignment: A and B had a contract for A to pay B to remodel his bathroom. B tells A to pay C, his niece, as a wedding gift.

Gratuitous Promise: B promises to pay C, his niece, $5000 as a wedding gift. (not as sure about this one).

Both are absolutely correct. So long as you remember gratuitous anything is not binding (except in cases of promissory estoppel) and can be taken back at any time. You can promise a child an xbox for shits and giggles and say just kidding on Christmas. You will be a promise breaker and taker backer but you won't be sued.

Unless the little SOB goes out and to GameStop and buys himself a sweet new controller, headphones, and a bunch of games after the parents tell him that they are buying him an xbox.

Nah, even in that case, you would need to show failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice. Don't think it's that big of an injustice to deny a kid an Xbox.

I think you're right (in reality), but for MBE land it's probably promissory estoppel

That's actually the third prong of promissory estoppel though.

Under the doctrine of promissory estoppel, a party’s promise to make a gift is enforceable if:
i) the donor should reasonably expect the promise to induce detrimental reliance by the donee,
ii) the promise actually induces such reliance,
iii) and the failure to enforce the promise will cause injustice.

I know, but "injustice" on the MBE isnt the same. The kid would be out $200 (or however much his shit cost). That's probably enough "injustice" for the MBE, since its a small injustice (if you will) but an injustice nonetheless.

Ultimately I think it's too subjective to be something the MBE tests. Just like the don't often test close calls on a "material breach," I'm guessing they don't test close calls on injustice either. So we probably won't have to worry about it, but who knows.

[jamescastle]

I've maybe put in 3-4 hours each day this week (and that's a pretty generous estimation)

I should probably be worried about my lack of effort this week, but I'm reaching that point where no fucks are given. I've essentially been studying this shit since the summer when I failed. So tired of it, on top of feeling physically ill this week.

That's a good way to think about it...

Last week when I told someone I thought I could pass the test this round they basically said the same thing "you've studied for this thing full time twice in a row, I'm not surprised."

If you don't mind me asking- how did you manage to fail the first time? I always hear the mantra - put in the work and you'll pass.

This is not true. I hit 75% on BARBRI in July and still failed.
It' about studying smarter I think. Hopefully I pass this time. I think I've done a lot better job at preparing rather than just ticking stuff off because BARBRI tells me to.
If so, I plan to go through and make some notes about what worked and what didn't and where I found success and all that and post it in the BARBRI (and Texas since that's where I mainly post) threads for July 2016. I've also made some Excel spreadsheets that are super helpful for me in finding out where I'm missing MBE questions and that as well as another one for essay topics. I plan to tidy everything up that I'm using and upload it to a Google drive or something for subsequent takers and link that here (assuming no copyright issues with BARBRI material which I would have to look into... unsure on what the law is on self-made outlines). I hated going through this twice so much; I don't want others to have to suffer like me and I'd do anything to prevent that. I plan to stick around for the bar threads at least for a while to help the depressed people cope since I've been there and know what it's like.

[MTBike]

I've maybe put in 3-4 hours each day this week (and that's a pretty generous estimation)

I should probably be worried about my lack of effort this week, but I'm reaching that point where no fucks are given. I've essentially been studying this shit since the summer when I failed. So tired of it, on top of feeling physically ill this week.

That's a good way to think about it...

Last week when I told someone I thought I could pass the test this round they basically said the same thing "you've studied for this thing full time twice in a row, I'm not surprised."

If you don't mind me asking- how did you manage to fail the first time? I always hear the mantra - put in the work and you'll pass.

This is not true. I hit 75% on BARBRI in July and still failed.
It' about studying smarter I think. Hopefully I pass this time. I think I've done a lot better job at preparing rather than just ticking stuff off because BARBRI tells me to.
If so, I plan to go through and make some notes about what worked and what didn't and where I found success and all that and post it in the BARBRI (and Texas since that's where I mainly post) threads for July 2016. I've also made some Excel spreadsheets that are super helpful for me in finding out where I'm missing MBE questions and that as well as another one for essay topics. I plan to tidy everything up that I'm using and upload it to a Google drive or something for subsequent takers and link that here (assuming no copyright issues with BARBRI material which I would have to look into... unsure on what the law is on self-made outlines). I hated going through this twice so much; I don't want others to have to suffer like me and I'd do anything to prevent that. I plan to stick around for the bar threads at least for a while to help the depressed people cope since I've been there and know what it's like.

100% this. The bar does not test how well you know the law. BARBRI just teaches you the law. Thus, you can do everything barbri says and fail miserably. I completed 98% of Barbri's study plan, failed by 2 points. I was putting in a RIDICULOUS amount of hours the first time around, cuz I had heard too (like everyone else) to just do what Barbri says, put in the work, and you'll be fine. Wrong. Actually, I think doing exactly what Barbri said decreased my chances of passing. Those videos? Waste of time. The "fillable outlines" that accompany the lectures? BIGGEST PILES OF SHIT EVER. If you use those as your primary source of information (like they tell you to do) you will fail. every. single. time. That god damn lady in the coffee shop reading off of a prompt telling me to get some sleep? Fuck her. Why do we even have to watch those? Is that what we paid 3k for? Fucks sake.

I'm assuming that's how it used to be (work hard and you'll pass), but it's not that way anymore. This isnt a test designed to keep the unfit from the practice, it's a test designed to keep EVERYONE from the practice. Your score on the MBE and your overall understanding of the law have a tenuous connection at best.

[MrMustache]

Those videos? Waste of time. The "fillable outlines" that accompany the lectures? BIGGEST PILES OF SHIT EVER. If you use those as your primary source of information (like they tell you to do) you will fail.

If what you say is true, I'm fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked

[jamescastle]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

[Fenixdown]

I've memorized all of the lecture outlines and I'm spending the last few days trying to absorb property as best I can. Hearing that the outlines suck just made me very sad!

Took the first half of the full day and got a 69/100. Gonna take the second half tomorrow.

My chances for me are feeling 50/50. I'm still better off than last time.

[bball700]

Those videos? Waste of time. The "fillable outlines" that accompany the lectures? BIGGEST PILES OF SHIT EVER. If you use those as your primary source of information (like they tell you to do) you will fail.

If what you say is true, I'm fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked

Lol ditto. I said fuck outloud when I read this. Although hard to believe as I scored 71 percentile on stimulated exam a month back and a 57/100 on refresher. I've been using short fill able outlines exclusively. Oh and fuck wills and trusts outline/teacher that Santa looking bitch can suck my dick.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

Look at my screen name. I've been fucked 6 times.

[Gamecubesupreme]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

See, this is what I'm wondering too. It seems like every year, people are convinced the MBE they sat through was the hardest ever. Last July was especially bad, as a lot of my friends were convinced they failed when they walked out of the examination.

But the average raw score remains pretty much the same, year after year.

If the MBE is getting harder, wouldn't we see a lower raw score instead of it remaining the same? I'm just curious.

[THE_U]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

See, this is what I'm wondering too. It seems like every year, people are convinced the MBE they sat through was the hardest ever. Last July was especially bad, as a lot of my friends were convinced they failed when they walked out of the examination.

But the average raw score remains pretty much the same, year after year.

If the MBE is getting harder, wouldn't we see a lower raw score instead of it remaining the same? I'm just curious.

Pretty sure the average raw score dropped a few points and was at its lowest in decades.

Edit: lowest since 1988

[jamescastle]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

See, this is what I'm wondering too. It seems like every year, people are convinced the MBE they sat through was the hardest ever. Last July was especially bad, as a lot of my friends were convinced they failed when they walked out of the examination.

But the average raw score remains pretty much the same, year after year.

If the MBE is getting harder, wouldn't we see a lower raw score instead of it remaining the same? I'm just curious.

Pretty sure the average raw score dropped a few points and was at its lowest in decades.

This.
I think July 2014 was one of the lowest ever. I assume February 2015 was worse (isn't February almost always lower than the previous July score?). And I'm fairly certain when I took it July 2015 it was worse than July 2014.
I have to think this February will be one of the lowest ever (again). I mean the curve attempts to correct for that so it really shouldn't matter. If you fail by <5 points you'd have reason to be upset about the curve maybe not being fair given the (probable) hardness of the test but outside that, it should be fine.
The only thing is that you feel awful walking out on Wednesday. You're naturally going to remember the questions you had no idea on (and you're naturally going to remember way more of this than the questions you most likely got right or knew right away). And when there are more and more of these questions each year more and more people come out feeling angrier and angrier at BARBRI/etc. and feeling they were not prepared or that "[BARBRI/etc.] prepared them for a totally different test."

edit: I see the quoted posted changed to mean 1988. Most of my point still stands.

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

See, this is what I'm wondering too. It seems like every year, people are convinced the MBE they sat through was the hardest ever. Last July was especially bad, as a lot of my friends were convinced they failed when they walked out of the examination.

But the average raw score remains pretty much the same, year after year.

If the MBE is getting harder, wouldn't we see a lower raw score instead of it remaining the same? I'm just curious.

Pretty sure the average raw score dropped a few points and was at its lowest in decades.

This.
I think July 2014 was one of the lowest ever. I assume February 2015 was worse (isn't February almost always lower than the previous July score?). And I'm fairly certain when I took it July 2015 it was worse than July 2014.
I have to think this February will be one of the lowest ever (again). I mean the curve attempts to correct for that so it really shouldn't matter. If you fail by <5 points you'd have reason to be upset about the curve maybe not being fair given the (probable) hardness of the test but outside that, it should be fine.
The only thing is that you feel awful walking out on Wednesday. You're naturally going to remember the questions you had no idea on (and you're naturally going to remember way more of this than the questions you most likely got right or knew right away). And when there are more and more of these questions each year more and more people come out feeling angrier and angrier at BARBRI/etc. and feeling they were not prepared or that "[BARBRI/etc.] prepared them for a totally different test."

edit: I see the quoted posted changed to mean 1988. Most of my point still stands.

I thought the July 2015 MBE was unbelievably hard. Everyone was mad at Barbri for not preparing us for that fucking onslaught. It really, really felt like the assholes at the NCBE did all they could to make sure the prep programs meant jack shit for their exam.

I am still trying to figure out if we were right or if we were all suffering from the phenomenon you just mentioned. Walking out and only remembering the hard questions. I can't compare it to other administrations because that's the only time I've taken the bar. I took the other NCBE practice exams and those felt easier.

BUT... I have researched this topic and it turns out the some MBE administrations are harder than others. And the NCBE scales the score to make up for these differences. Like harder exams where overall raw scores are lower will get a bigger boost than easier exams. And the NCBE says they have some "equalizer" questions, which are repeat questions (maybe the change the names of the parties) that they give year after year. And performance on those questions is how they gauge the difficulty of the overall exam. Which explains why they are so damn protective of their exam materials.

[BVest]

Pretty sure the bar exam people watch BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. lectures or whatever and prepare questions that purposefully don't touch on stuff they covered. And then BARBRI/Kaplan/Themis/etc. update their lectures for the next year and try again. And this keeps happening and it's why next year's materials will probably be just a little bit bigger than this year's materials were.

See, this is what I'm wondering too. It seems like every year, people are convinced the MBE they sat through was the hardest ever. Last July was especially bad, as a lot of my friends were convinced they failed when they walked out of the examination.

But the average raw score remains pretty much the same, year after year.

If the MBE is getting harder, wouldn't we see a lower raw score instead of it remaining the same? I'm just curious.

We don't know what the average raw score is. The average scaled score has been steadily on the descent.

[MTBike]

I thought the July 2015 MBE was unbelievably hard. Everyone was mad at Barbri for not preparing us for that fucking onslaught. It really, really felt like the assholes at the NCBE did all they could to make sure the prep programs meant jack shit for their exam.

I am still trying to figure out if we were right or if we were all suffering from the phenomenon you just mentioned. Walking out and only remembering the hard questions. I can't compare it to other administrations because that's the only time I've taken the bar. I took the other NCBE practice exams and those felt easier.

BUT... I have researched this topic and it turns out the some MBE administrations are harder than others. And the NCBE scales the score to make up for these differences. Like harder exams where overall raw scores are lower will get a bigger boost than easier exams. And the NCBE says they have some "equalizer" questions, which are repeat questions (maybe the change the names of the parties) that they give year after year. And performance on those questions is how they gauge the difficulty of the overall exam. Which explains why they are so damn protective of their exam materials.

Same. I felt absolutely violated after July 2015. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't study or prepare for it. But I studied my FUCKING BALLS OFF for that test. It's the most effort i've ever put into anything in my life, and it didn't matter at all. As if I hadn't even opened the material.

Pretty demoralizing honestly. Knowing that I could put in that much effort, learn that much law, sacrifice months of my life and be told that because you didn't answer 2-3 more of these trick questions correctly that have nothing to do with anything, you aren't fit to be a lawyer. You don't even meet the "minimum competency" required.

And the people telling you that you aren't competent? They didn't even have to know civil procedure when they became lawyers.

[crumpetsandtea]

Anyone so burnt out that they can't mange to put together more than 6 hours a day at this point. I feel as if my subconscious is like chill we got this, I don't want to work anymore. But my brain won't listen to that little voice that is always right.

omg this is exactly what I came here to post.

It's so damn hard to concentrate but I don't want to waste the last 2 full days I have. IDK what I should be focusing on -- last time I focused on essays the entire last 2 weeks, but this time around IL weighs the MBE way more than CA so I'm panicking that I haven't spent enough time doing MBE practice.

[crumpetsandtea]

Those videos? Waste of time. The "fillable outlines" that accompany the lectures? BIGGEST PILES OF SHIT EVER. If you use those as your primary source of information (like they tell you to do) you will fail.

If what you say is true, I'm fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked

Lol ditto. I said fuck outloud when I read this. Although hard to believe as I scored 71 percentile on stimulated exam a month back and a 57/100 on refresher. I've been using short fill able outlines exclusively. Oh and fuck wills and trusts outline/teacher that Santa looking bitch can suck my dick.

DON'T PANIC GUYS. Everyone has a different method of studying, and as long as you're doing what works for you, it doesn't matter what works for everyone else.

I followed BarBri's stuff to a tee in July + did almost every single essay in the essay book. Didn't read CMR at all and relied entirely on lecture handouts. Stopped studying MBE questions 2 weeks before the test. Did no other external prep, not even flash cards. Wrote my own outlines and watched every single video and found them helpful.

Other people did exactly the opposite, and they passed too. Hell, I had a friend who literally didn't write any essays (just read through them the week before the exam) and hadn't even finished watching the lecture videos until 1.5 weeks before. He passed (but he's probably a genius and I don't recommend doing what he did). It's not about following X Y and Z steps, it's about figuring out how you learn best and doing what your brain needs to do in order to learn the material. Other people will invariably do it differently. That doesn't mean your way is wrong.

[NY_Sea]

Those videos? Waste of time. The "fillable outlines" that accompany the lectures? BIGGEST PILES OF SHIT EVER. If you use those as your primary source of information (like they tell you to do) you will fail.

If what you say is true, I'm fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked

Lol ditto. I said fuck outloud when I read this. Although hard to believe as I scored 71 percentile on stimulated exam a month back and a 57/100 on refresher. I've been using short fill able outlines exclusively. Oh and fuck wills and trusts outline/teacher that Santa looking bitch can suck my dick.

DON'T PANIC GUYS. Everyone has a different method of studying, and as long as you're doing what works for you, it doesn't matter what works for everyone else.

I followed BarBri's stuff to a tee in July + did almost every single essay in the essay book. Didn't read CMR at all and relied entirely on lecture handouts. Stopped studying MBE questions 2 weeks before the test. Did no other external prep, not even flash cards. Wrote my own outlines and watched every single video and found them helpful.

Other people did exactly the opposite, and they passed too. Hell, I had a friend who literally didn't write any essays (just read through them the week before the exam) and hadn't even finished watching the lecture videos until 1.5 weeks before. He passed (but he's probably a genius and I don't recommend doing what he did). It's not about following X Y and Z steps, it's about figuring out how you learn best and doing what your brain needs to do in order to learn the material. Other people will invariably do it differently. That doesn't mean your way is wrong.

Maybe it's different in NY, but every. single. person. I know that took BARBRI and passed used the lecture notes exclusively and used the CMR sparingly... My sticking point on the exam was my MBE score and that came down to not reading the explanatory answers the first go around. I didn't know the pitfalls and patterns that the test uses. My essay scores were above average.

I think the lecture notes, at least for NY, hit the big topics that are likely to be tested in NY.