THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[Neilt001]

uh dumb question but is Themis actual MBE questions or Themis creations?

I think it's a mix.

It's a mix. I was looking through the Emanuel Strategies and Tactics for MBE Book (which uses all licensed MBE questions) and I had seen a vast majority of the questions already in Themis.

That's right. It's a mix. I purchased a practice set from NCBE when I wrote and I had already seen many of the Qs word for word on Themis. I think Themis does a good job of making its own questions because you really can't tell a difference with those from the NCBE. I think Themis does very well to prepare you for the bar in that respect.

[Neilt001]

It's annoying to be continually told in the lectures to just focus on "minimal competence," only to take these exams and be presented with the most obscure civ pro rules and constitutional principles. I hate this.

People who've already taken the Bar: are the MBE questions typically really general?

Hi there. I've taken the bar. Unfortunately I didn't feel like the MBE Qs were really general. They were basically exactly the same as the Themis ones. I personally could tell no difference. In fact, before the exam I purchased a practice set from the NCBE website and many of those questions I had already seen on Themis.

Also, I agree with your sentiments on 'minimum competence'. I felt the same way. I felt that the questions (both MBE and MEE) were way harder than just a minimum level, and that they actually test very specific, detailed and difficult concepts that go far beyond just a minimum level.

However, remember that you don't need to get all these Qs right. You only need to score around 65% (at least for New York) and so there is plenty of room for error. Obviously we all want to build in a nice big cushion so that, come exam day, we're perfectly comfortable. Some may achieve that cushion, most others (such as myself), may not have as much of a cushion as we would like. But just remember, you don't need to be getting all the Qs right, and so in that respect, it is only minimum competence.

Ultimately, I wouldn't worry too much, and I would just trust the system. I spent the better part of my studying completely freaking out because of my poor scores and lack of progress, but I ended up scoring in the 90th percentile on the MEE/MPT and 85th on MBE. Don't know exactly how that happened but it all worked out.

[lilkim12]

Anyone notice a bunch of small inconsistencies between the main substantive lectures and then ide-dons? Especially with the MEE topics?

[dabigchina]

Anyone notice a bunch of small inconsistencies between the main substantive lectures and then ide-dons? Especially with the MEE topics?

P sure Ide-don just reads model answers and distills them down into an attack outline. If the model answers have mistakes of law, he's going to have mistakes of law.

[BlueLaw11]

It's annoying to be continually told in the lectures to just focus on "minimal competence," only to take these exams and be presented with the most obscure civ pro rules and constitutional principles. I hate this.

People who've already taken the Bar: are the MBE questions typically really general?

Hi there. I've taken the bar. Unfortunately I didn't feel like the MBE Qs were really general. They were basically exactly the same as the Themis ones. I personally could tell no difference. In fact, before the exam I purchased a practice set from the NCBE website and many of those questions I had already seen on Themis.

Also, I agree with your sentiments on 'minimum competence'. I felt the same way. I felt that the questions (both MBE and MEE) were way harder than just a minimum level, and that they actually test very specific, detailed and difficult concepts that go far beyond just a minimum level.

However, remember that you don't need to get all these Qs right. You only need to score around 65% (at least for New York) and so there is plenty of room for error. Obviously we all want to build in a nice big cushion so that, come exam day, we're perfectly comfortable. Some may achieve that cushion, most others (such as myself), may not have as much of a cushion as we would like. But just remember, you don't need to be getting all the Qs right, and so in that respect, it is only minimum competence.

Ultimately, I wouldn't worry too much, and I would just trust the system. I spent the better part of my studying completely freaking out because of my poor scores and lack of progress, but I ended up scoring in the 90th percentile on the MEE/MPT and 85th on MBE. Don't know exactly how that happened but it all worked out.

Hey thank you for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it. That's disappointing to learn that it tests such minute nuances, but I suppose that's what Themis is preparing us for. Really glad to hear that the questions are similar to actual Bar questions; I was getting worried that I made a mistake by not purchasing Adaptibar.

Thanks!

[2015_Splitter]

Anyone find Birdthistle ridiculously boring? It takes him 10 minutes to explain the simplest concepts.

[Neilt001]

Hey thank you for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it. That's disappointing to learn that it tests such minute nuances, but I suppose that's what Themis is preparing us for. Really glad to hear that the questions are similar to actual Bar questions; I was getting worried that I made a mistake by not purchasing Adaptibar.

Thanks!

Not a problem! I know lots of people found adaptibar helpful so it's always an option. Personally, the only additional study aid I used was Critical Pass cards, so I can't speak to adaptibar. But I can confirm that I did well on the bar using only Themis and, to a limited extent, CP. I feel like Themis has got plenty of MBE practice questions (more than you need), as well as analytics aned quiz building features.

Just do as many MBE PQs as you can and I reckon you'll be fine. And as I've said before, it's important to learn from your mistakes by always understanding why you got a PQ wrong, and also writing down the rule that you didn't know so that you'll remember it for next time.

[CBlaw]

my god . If i fail its solely b/c i bombed con law and evidence. I seem to just completely not understand any concept on con law. bombing the MC questions over and over.

[adil91]

Some of these con law questions seem extremely unfair and actually seem to contradict Supreme Court precedent. Are the real MBE questions similarly unfair?

[l18]

my god . If i fail its solely b/c i bombed con law and evidence. I seem to just completely not understand any concept on con law. bombing the MC questions over and over.

If you have the critical pass flash cards read those over for con law. After my rant post last night (which everyone has justifiably ignored lol) I read those over and things make a lot more sense now.

[rastajacob]

Checking in from PA. Just wanted to vent over Professor Clark. Love his outline, it is amazing...I JUST WISH HE WOULD STICK TO IT AND STOP RAMBLING...! It makes it so difficult to follow him, even on 1.5 speed, LOL...Perhaps it’s just frustration setting in? Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself and say hi !

Also doing PA Themis!

I think it's a mix of both, but I think Prof. Clark just talked way too slow and it made it difficult to stay focused

Just a quick message to see how you were doing? I couldn't figure out how to send an IM or a personal message, so I just sent it here...If you know how, you can respond that way...Just seeing how a fellow PA tester is doing at this point !!! Take care !!

[rastajacob]

Themis, You couldn't find a better lecturer on Conflict of Laws than this bumbling, stuttering man for the PA Bar exam who (while he DOES follow the outline, which is a plus) makes you hate all sentient beings while watching his lecture, want to either cry or just say fuck it...i dunno...

[ithrowds]

I've started to peel away from the assigned tasks the last couple days. I found myself struggling to finish all the random essays & MPTs that they want us to do, and leaving myself with barely any time to drill/study the MBE subjects. Anyone else feel this way? I'm spending today doing a lot of review of the MBE subjects and maybe just knocking off like half of the Themis assignments. I'm at about ~60% completion, fwiw.

[BlueLaw11]

my god . If i fail its solely b/c i bombed con law and evidence. I seem to just completely not understand any concept on con law. bombing the MC questions over and over.

If you have the critical pass flash cards read those over for con law. After my rant post last night (which everyone has justifiably ignored lol) I read those over and things make a lot more sense now.

As a fellow CA taker, your rant was read and appreciated. The CA distinctions in particular are killing me for memorization

[BlueLaw11]

I've started to peel away from the assigned tasks the last couple days. I found myself struggling to finish all the random essays & MPTs that they want us to do, and leaving myself with barely any time to drill/study the MBE subjects. Anyone else feel this way? I'm spending today doing a lot of review of the MBE subjects and maybe just knocking off like half of the Themis assignments. I'm at about ~60% completion, fwiw.

Same boat here, I've started just outlining the non-grading essays because there are simply too many. Hopefully that doesn't come back to bite me. And I've been pushing off my scheduled MPT for the past few days, it's hard to get the motivation to sit down and power through one of those haha

[dabigchina]

Some of these con law questions seem extremely unfair and actually seem to contradict Supreme Court precedent. Are the real MBE questions similarly unfair?

The question where the father of the illegitimate child claimed discrimination directly contradicts Nguyen v INS. I was pretty surprised when the answer indicated he could successfully challenge.

[Pajsa18]

Has anyone experienced a decline in scores and then just flat-lined on MBEs . . . and still passed? I am really trying to hold it together because I am studying as hard and as efficiently as I am capable of doing and my scores are still baaaaad. My essays have been decent, most recent ones were 7/10 and 6/10, but my last several single subject MBE's have all been in the upper 40s, with the exception of Crim and Evidence both coming in at 59 - these are not my overall subject scores, just the most recent MBE scores. My overall MBE is 55% and I am at 60% completion. I will start the mixed MBE's tomorrow. I'm looking at the scores on here and not coming in anywhere near those ranges. I don't know if I even have a chance at this point

[tlsaccount2]

Has anyone experienced a decline in scores and then just flat-lined on MBEs . . . and still passed? I am really trying to hold it together because I am studying as hard and as efficiently as I am capable of doing and my scores are still baaaaad. My essays have been decent, most recent ones were 7/10 and 6/10, but my last several single subject MBE's have all been in the upper 40s, with the exception of Crim and Evidence both coming in at 59 - these are not my overall subject scores, just the most recent MBE scores. My overall MBE is 55% and I am at 60% completion. I will start the mixed MBE's tomorrow. I'm looking at the scores on here and not coming in anywhere near those ranges. I don't know if I even have a chance at this point

Yeah I had that experience and passed CA last summer. I asked the Themis rep about my declining MBE scores, and he said that's normal for everyone. They initially give you easy questions to build up your confidence and then progressively make them harder as you go along in the course. Talk to your Themis rep to get a sense of how he/she thinks you're doing compared to past Themis students who end up passing.

[dabigchina]

Has anyone experienced a decline in scores and then just flat-lined on MBEs . . . and still passed? I am really trying to hold it together because I am studying as hard and as efficiently as I am capable of doing and my scores are still baaaaad. My essays have been decent, most recent ones were 7/10 and 6/10, but my last several single subject MBE's have all been in the upper 40s, with the exception of Crim and Evidence both coming in at 59 - these are not my overall subject scores, just the most recent MBE scores. My overall MBE is 55% and I am at 60% completion. I will start the mixed MBE's tomorrow. I'm looking at the scores on here and not coming in anywhere near those ranges. I don't know if I even have a chance at this point

The people who volunteer their MBE percentages will naturally be people who are way above median. I don't know how people get above 70% at this stage in the game. I wouldn't let it get you down.

[CBlaw]

Has anyone experienced a decline in scores and then just flat-lined on MBEs . . . and still passed? I am really trying to hold it together because I am studying as hard and as efficiently as I am capable of doing and my scores are still baaaaad. My essays have been decent, most recent ones were 7/10 and 6/10, but my last several single subject MBE's have all been in the upper 40s, with the exception of Crim and Evidence both coming in at 59 - these are not my overall subject scores, just the most recent MBE scores. My overall MBE is 55% and I am at 60% completion. I will start the mixed MBE's tomorrow. I'm looking at the scores on here and not coming in anywhere near those ranges. I don't know if I even have a chance at this point

I am having the same occur. Idk I feel like in the beginning when i didnt know as much i was getting more correct. I think i am overthinking everything now and end up doing way worse. Its very frustrating.

[l18]

One con law question was about a new law passed by Congress requiring the assistance of state health officials in conducting background checks on pharmacists. The answer said Congress cannot “commandeer” state legislatures by commanding them to enact specific legislation or administer a federal regulatory program...

If we passed legislation requiring background checks for guns, how would that legislation work? Would it be because all gun sellers are private sellers and would be required to send the buyers info to a federal agency that runs the background checks, and no state officials are involved?

[dabigchina]

One con law question was about a new law passed by Congress requiring the assistance of state health officials in conducting background checks on pharmacists. The answer said Congress cannot “commandeer” state legislatures by commanding them to enact specific legislation or administer a federal regulatory program...

If we passed legislation requiring background checks for guns, how would that legislation work? Would it be because all gun sellers are private sellers and would be required to send the buyers info to a federal agency that runs the background checks, and no state officials are involved?

Yeah, I think ATF would conduct the background checks. You couldn't have the state police conduct the checks because that would be commandeering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States

[deacon]

Has anyone experienced a decline in scores and then just flat-lined on MBEs . . . and still passed? I am really trying to hold it together because I am studying as hard and as efficiently as I am capable of doing and my scores are still baaaaad. My essays have been decent, most recent ones were 7/10 and 6/10, but my last several single subject MBE's have all been in the upper 40s, with the exception of Crim and Evidence both coming in at 59 - these are not my overall subject scores, just the most recent MBE scores. My overall MBE is 55% and I am at 60% completion. I will start the mixed MBE's tomorrow. I'm looking at the scores on here and not coming in anywhere near those ranges. I don't know if I even have a chance at this point

I am having the same occur. Idk I feel like in the beginning when i didnt know as much i was getting more correct. I think i am overthinking everything now and end up doing way worse. Its very frustrating.

Same here. The more I know, the more I overthink and end up choosing the wrong answer

[l18]

One con law question was about a new law passed by Congress requiring the assistance of state health officials in conducting background checks on pharmacists. The answer said Congress cannot “commandeer” state legislatures by commanding them to enact specific legislation or administer a federal regulatory program...

If we passed legislation requiring background checks for guns, how would that legislation work? Would it be because all gun sellers are private sellers and would be required to send the buyers info to a federal agency that runs the background checks, and no state officials are involved?

Yeah, I think ATF would conduct the background checks. You couldn't have the state police conduct the checks because that would be commandeering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States

Right on, thank you.

[LawIsLyfe33]

Checking in from PA. Just wanted to vent over Professor Clark. Love his outline, it is amazing...I JUST WISH HE WOULD STICK TO IT AND STOP RAMBLING...! It makes it so difficult to follow him, even on 1.5 speed, LOL...Perhaps it’s just frustration setting in? Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself and say hi !

Also doing PA Themis!

I think it's a mix of both, but I think Prof. Clark just talked way too slow and it made it difficult to stay focused

Just a quick message to see how you were doing? I couldn't figure out how to send an IM or a personal message, so I just sent it here...If you know how, you can respond that way...Just seeing how a fellow PA tester is doing at this point !!! Take care !!

Yeah I'm not sure how to send a personal message either. But I'm doing okay. Some days I have more confidence than others. I've been staying exactly on pace or a day ahead so I'm at 65% course completion, but I never read the long outlines and have just been outlining most essays.

For MBE, overall I've been at 60% for pretty much the entire course with no improvement or regression. But I did well on the two Practice exams (71% and 64%). Overall, I feel completely fine with MBE.

For graded essays, I've been struggling. I've gotten a 50%, a 25%, a 55%, and another 25%. If I don't state the rule perfectly, my grader dings me big time. It has me discouraged but I just keep telling myself he's grading excessively hard and I need to improve my memorization of the rules.

Defintely happy to be done learning new material and to focus on memorization and practice these next 4 weeks or so.

How's it going for you?