BarBri - NY Exam - July 2014 Forum

[Guchster]

Does anyone know what the mens rea is for a "general intent" crime in New York? According to CMR and lecture, there's purposeful, knowing, reckless and negligent.

Under common law it's easy. You say kidnapping is a "general intent" crime, and voluntary intoxication is not a defense. What do you say in New York? Does this mean the mens rea for kidnapping is negligence or recklessness? That does not sound right at all.

From my outline, I have that general intent crimes can be proven by showing the D acted with a purposeful (which in NY is intentionally), reckless or criminally negligent MR. That's the general rule, IIRC, from the MPC (which NY adopted its MR from) when a statute is silent as to MR but carries the possibility of a jail sentence. HTH.

I've noticed a lot of examinee answers just use common law mental states anyway. If we get a question on voluntary intoxication we're supposed to say defendant has the requisite mens rea, because he committed a crime and the crime is silent as to mens rea, so therefore voluntary intoxication is a defense? General/Specific sounds a lot easier to explain in an answer.

Note that voluntary intoxication works differently in NY than the common law (NY uses MPC mental states), so it:
1. Can be a defense to intent and knowledge crimes, if it prevents him from forming the required state of mind
2. Cannot be defense to crimes of recklessness, negligence, or strict liability.

[Guchster]

Questions that have been lingering in my mind: why does the july administration have a higher pass rate than the February administration if everything is supposedly scaled and what are essays scaled to (i.e. what is the median and the general range of essay score outside of which it would be tough to score)?

I want to reassure myself that as long as I know concepts and most of the rules, my essays will receive fine scores . . .

i also did research on this! so one thing they say is that there are more people retaking it in february. also, it's cold. also, it tends to be more people who are working. plus in july, you have a lot of recent grads. so that ups the numbers. and you have people who have the summer off to do it.

Can you imagine doing this with a full time job?!

LORD JESUS I BETTER PASS THIS FUCKING EXAM.

[legalbeagle56]

Questions that have been lingering in my mind: why does the july administration have a higher pass rate than the February administration if everything is supposedly scaled and what are essays scaled to (i.e. what is the median and the general range of essay score outside of which it would be tough to score)?

I want to reassure myself that as long as I know concepts and most of the rules, my essays will receive fine scores . . .

i also did research on this! so one thing they say is that there are more people retaking it in february. also, it's cold. also, it tends to be more people who are working. plus in july, you have a lot of recent grads. so that ups the numbers. and you have people who have the summer off to do it.

Can you imagine doing this with a full time job?!

LORD JESUS I BETTER PASS THIS FUCKING EXAM.

Additional reason to pass: starting in February, there will be Civ Pro on the MBE and Admin on the New York portion.

[lawyerwannabe]

Questions that have been lingering in my mind: why does the july administration have a higher pass rate than the February administration if everything is supposedly scaled and what are essays scaled to (i.e. what is the median and the general range of essay score outside of which it would be tough to score)?

I want to reassure myself that as long as I know concepts and most of the rules, my essays will receive fine scores . . .

i also did research on this! so one thing they say is that there are more people retaking it in february. also, it's cold. also, it tends to be more people who are working. plus in july, you have a lot of recent grads. so that ups the numbers. and you have people who have the summer off to do it.

Can you imagine doing this with a full time job?!

LORD JESUS I BETTER PASS THIS FUCKING EXAM.

I get it but they say it is scaled. That is the confusing part.

Also, on that separac website, a passing essay score in July is around 47 while it is 51 in February. It is almost like they want more people to pass . . .

[turquoiseturtle]

Questions that have been lingering in my mind: why does the july administration have a higher pass rate than the February administration if everything is supposedly scaled and what are essays scaled to (i.e. what is the median and the general range of essay score outside of which it would be tough to score)?

I want to reassure myself that as long as I know concepts and most of the rules, my essays will receive fine scores . . .

i also did research on this! so one thing they say is that there are more people retaking it in february. also, it's cold. also, it tends to be more people who are working. plus in july, you have a lot of recent grads. so that ups the numbers. and you have people who have the summer off to do it.

They must be doing some very complicated scaling, rather than like the LSAT where it is ALWAYS scaled to 150. Which makes sense, otherwise they would be letting a bunch of people who "shouldn't" pass, pass in February just because they're competing against a "weaker" pool of candidates. Obviously I can't explain what exactly they're doing, but I wouldn't be concerned about it.

[thetashster]

Questions that have been lingering in my mind: why does the july administration have a higher pass rate than the February administration if everything is supposedly scaled and what are essays scaled to (i.e. what is the median and the general range of essay score outside of which it would be tough to score)?

I want to reassure myself that as long as I know concepts and most of the rules, my essays will receive fine scores . . .

i also did research on this! so one thing they say is that there are more people retaking it in february. also, it's cold. also, it tends to be more people who are working. plus in july, you have a lot of recent grads. so that ups the numbers. and you have people who have the summer off to do it.

Can you imagine doing this with a full time job?!

LORD JESUS I BETTER PASS THIS FUCKING EXAM.

my neighbor did this with a baby and a fulltime job. i can't even handle that.

[thetashster]

am i the only insane person who's handwriting the exam??

[Guchster]

am i the only insane person who's handwriting the exam??

Well my computer won't last longer than 1.5 hours without an outlet, so I may very well join you if the outlet situation is as bad as some have made it out to be at Javits....

The essays are so short and the usual=the more you type the more points you get=doesn't apply so I think handwriting is not the worst idea in the world.

My handwriting is so bad though that I'll need to provide a rosetta stone to translate it or a chicken to interpret it.

[turquoiseturtle]

am i the only insane person who's handwriting the exam??

Well my computer won't last longer than 1.5 hours without an outlet, so I may very well join you if the outlet situation is as bad as some have made it out to be at Javits....

The essays are so short and the usual=the more you type the more points you get=doesn't apply so I think handwriting is not the worst idea in the world.

My handwriting is so bad though that I'll need to provide a rosetta stone to translate it or a chicken to interpret it.

I would not have hesitated to handwrite after college, we took every exam handwritten. I'd never even used a computer in class to take notes before law school. But now I feel like my hand just doesn't have the stamina for it.

[thetashster]

am i the only insane person who's handwriting the exam??

Well my computer won't last longer than 1.5 hours without an outlet, so I may very well join you if the outlet situation is as bad as some have made it out to be at Javits....

The essays are so short and the usual=the more you type the more points you get=doesn't apply so I think handwriting is not the worst idea in the world.

My handwriting is so bad though that I'll need to provide a rosetta stone to translate it or a chicken to interpret it.

I would not have hesitated to handwrite after college, we took every exam handwritten. I'd never even used a computer in class to take notes before law school. But now I feel like my hand just doesn't have the stamina for it.

yeah i'm starting to get concerned b/c the essay answers all seem like they would be typed up. and i feel like barbri made no remarks about handwriting. so i'm not really sure what to expect. and what the bar examiners are looking for, ie are they going to be more or less stringent etc

[Guchster]

yeah i'm starting to get concerned b/c the essay answers all seem like they would be typed up. and i feel like barbri made no remarks about handwriting. so i'm not really sure what to expect. and what the bar examiners are looking for, ie are they going to be more or less stringent etc

My guess is they'll be no more or less stringent with you--they'll just award you points for sentences/statements that they would've awarded if it was typed up.

Do you notice an inherent difference between answers that are originally handwritten v. typed? In other words, if someone handwrote an answer and the bar examiners typed it up to release it as a model response, would you be able to tell?

[thetashster]

yeah i'm starting to get concerned b/c the essay answers all seem like they would be typed up. and i feel like barbri made no remarks about handwriting. so i'm not really sure what to expect. and what the bar examiners are looking for, ie are they going to be more or less stringent etc

My guess is they'll be no more or less stringent with you--they'll just award you points for sentences/statements that they would've awarded if it was typed up.

Do you notice an inherent difference between answers that are originally handwritten v. typed? In other words, if someone handwrote an answer and the bar examiners typed it up to release it as a model response, would you be able to tell?

that's what i'm unsure about. i'm inclined to think that some of the terser or shorter responses were handwritten. i can't imagine some of those 3 page responses being handwritten. there just wouldn't be enough time.

[pizzasodafries]

Why would you prefer to write it when we could do it on a computer?

Unless you are typing one finger at a time like some caveman I can't understand not wanting to type the essays out.

[thetashster]

Why would you prefer to write it when we could do it on a computer?

Unless you are typing one finger at a time like some caveman I can't understand not wanting to type the essays out.

since i'm taking in two places, i had to pay more than twice as much just for the software and the setup. i was also told outlets are an issue, and i'm not sure how long my computer can last without it. and i didn't want it to crash on me also.

[pizzasodafries]

Why would you prefer to write it when we could do it on a computer?

Unless you are typing one finger at a time like some caveman I can't understand not wanting to type the essays out.

since i'm taking in two places, i had to pay more than twice as much just for the software and the setup. i was also told outlets are an issue, and i'm not sure how long my computer can last without it. and i didn't want it to crash on me also.

They better have outlets, though I guess I can recharge somewhere else at the break if outlets are messed up.

Writing that long and that much by hand is putting yourself or at least myself personally in a much harder position than typing. But to each his own, if this worked for you in law school than it should be fine.

[pizzasodafries]

Ok can someone clear this up for me.

If there is a written Merger or integration clause in a contract and a term in the K is somewhat ambiguous and you want to bring in what the customary language means in the business can the Merger clause keep that evidence out? I know it generally keeps everything not in the K out, but I remember hearing that Customs of usage in that trade or craft can always be brought in to explain any unclear terms.

[Guchster]

Ok can someone clear this up for me.

If there is a written Merger or integration clause in a contract and a term in the K is somewhat ambiguous and you want to bring in what the customary language means in the business can the Merger clause keep that evidence out? I know it generally keeps everything not in the K out, but I remember hearing that Customs of usage in that trade or craft can always be brought in to explain any unclear terms.

If UCC governs, usage of trade, course of performance & dealing are always allowed in to explain or supplement terms--even if the contract is unambiguous. A merger clause in this case just prohibits the addition of additional terms.

If the common law governs, If there is uncertainty or ambiguity in the written agreement’s terms or a dispute as to the meaning of those terms, parol evidence can be received to aid the fact-finder in reaching a correct interpretation of the agreement. If the meaning of the agreement is plain, parol evidence is inadmissible. A merger clause in this case bans additional terms to be added to the contract (even if they're consistent)--note modern courts don't view merger clauses as definitive (but one piece of the integration puzzle); I don't believe it has an effect on interpretation of ambiguous terms though (as the evidence isn't seeking to modify or contradict the terms of the contract but just clarify what those term mean).

[PennBull]

Yeah and "ambiguity" can be really liberal. If a party makes a stupid mistake he can always try to "explain" even the most slight ambiguities to try and amend the contract.

[pizzasodafries]

Ok can someone clear this up for me.

If there is a written Merger or integration clause in a contract and a term in the K is somewhat ambiguous and you want to bring in what the customary language means in the business can the Merger clause keep that evidence out? I know it generally keeps everything not in the K out, but I remember hearing that Customs of usage in that trade or craft can always be brought in to explain any unclear terms.

If UCC governs, usage of trade, course of performance & dealing are always allowed in to explain or supplement terms--even if the contract is unambiguous. A merger clause in this case just prohibits the addition of additional terms.

If the common law governs, If there is uncertainty or ambiguity in the written agreement’s terms or a dispute as to the meaning of those terms, parol evidence can be received to aid the fact-finder in reaching a correct interpretation of the agreement. If the meaning of the agreement is plain, parol evidence is inadmissible. A merger clause in this case bans additional terms to be added to the contract (even if they're consistent)--note modern courts don't view merger clauses as definitive (but one piece of the integration puzzle); I don't believe it has an effect on interpretation of ambiguous terms though (as the evidence isn't seeking to modify or contradict the terms of the contract but just clarify what those term mean).

Thanks, that was really helpful

[Guchster]

Can anybody that has actually done any real bar questions instead of barbri's awful ones compare: (1) similarity in form/substance and (2) their performance/percent correct with the mixed set questions?

The ones I bought seem to be fairly similar...but after the sets 5 and even the SFE, the mixed sets just seem way too easy. I haven't done enough real ones to have an opinion yet. They just seem different....

I'm worried I'm going to get firehosed in the face on Wednesday.

[legalbeagle56]

Can anybody that has actually done any real bar questions instead of barbri's awful ones compare: (1) similarity in form/substance and (2) their performance/percent correct with the mixed set questions?

The ones I bought seem to be fairly similar...but after the sets 5 and even the SFE, the mixed sets just seem way too easy. I haven't done enough real ones to have an opinion yet. They just seem different....

I'm worried I'm going to get firehosed in the face on Wednesday.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I bought one of the NCBE's practice exams and did a little over half of it this morning. The percentage I got correct was about the same as what I got on Mixed Sets 1 and 2. I found that the questions were much shorter and easier to understand, though the substance was the same for the most part. The ones that I did get incorrect I missed because I made dumb mistakes, not because I had no clue what the correct answer was (as is sometimes the case with Barbri's more difficult questions).

[thetashster]

Can anybody that has actually done any real bar questions instead of barbri's awful ones compare: (1) similarity in form/substance and (2) their performance/percent correct with the mixed set questions?

The ones I bought seem to be fairly similar...but after the sets 5 and even the SFE, the mixed sets just seem way too easy. I haven't done enough real ones to have an opinion yet. They just seem different....

I'm worried I'm going to get firehosed in the face on Wednesday.

5ky... ENLIGHTEN US!

[hemm]

Can anybody that has actually done any real bar questions instead of barbri's awful ones compare: (1) similarity in form/substance and (2) their performance/percent correct with the mixed set questions?

The ones I bought seem to be fairly similar...but after the sets 5 and even the SFE, the mixed sets just seem way too easy. I haven't done enough real ones to have an opinion yet. They just seem different....

I'm worried I'm going to get firehosed in the face on Wednesday.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I bought one of the NCBE's practice exams and did a little over half of it this morning. The percentage I got correct was about the same as what I got on Mixed Sets 1 and 2. I found that the questions were much shorter and easier to understand, though the substance was the same for the most part. The ones that I did get incorrect I missed because I made dumb mistakes, not because I had no clue what the correct answer was (as is sometimes the case with Barbri's more difficult questions).

Seconded. I did one of the NCBE practice exams this morning and scored about the same as the earlier Barbri sets. The real questions are shorter and much clearer about what area of the law they're testing. So are the answer choices. For example, an answer choice will be something like "Yes, because D was voluntarily intoxicated" instead of some BS about a wedding and dropping the groom off on an island written by someone who had just seen The Hangover 2. The substance is about the same as far as I've seen.

I'm not planning on doing any more of the Sets 6, just the Mixed Sets. I think the $50 I spent on the NBCE questions was worth it just to calm myself down.

[turquoiseturtle]

More essays that make me a little bit less stressed and worried:

Number 15 in the NY questions section. Both examinee answers A+B are pretty off the mark on the professional responsibility portion of the question. They say reasonable things, but from looking up the law in the PR handout (pg 22), neither person is actually applying what should be applied.

[encore1101]

More essays that make me a little bit less stressed and worried:

Number 15 in the NY questions section. Both examinee answers A+B are pretty off the mark on the professional responsibility portion of the question. They say reasonable things, but from looking up the law in the PR handout (pg 22), neither person is actually applying what should be applied.

if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hit