NY Bar Feb Exam: Support Group Forum

hopeful420 · Post by **hopeful420** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:48 am

First and foremost, to all the NY passers, congratulations! You guys rock and are so inspirational.

Can anyone offer any advice on how to improve on the MBE? What strategies worked? What study materials?

Thanks!

JF215 · Post by **JF215** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:08 am

my MBE took a significant jump this go-round, and i would highly recommend adaptibar. whenever i got an adaptibar question wrong, i wrote the rule (and some of the facts/parties if necessary) in a master word doc and referred back to it every couple of days. i didn't do any other questions this time (even though i had my barbri question as well), but i did do almost 2k adaptibar Qs. i still left the AM session feeling like i was dead in the water (in hindsight, probably more anxiety than anything), but i felt good about the PM session, and i credit adaptibar for a lot of the improvement in my score.

best of luck if you're giving it a go in july.

also feel free to msg me to discuss.

anshulkalra · Post by **anshulkalra** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:11 am

I am a foreign educated retaker. Passed the exam in second attempt with an MBE score of 141. In my first attempt, my MBE score was 122 and I was 7 point short of 665. So in my second run, I primarily focussed on MBe by taking Adaptibar. I highly recommend Adaptibar to people who struggle with MBe. They have real bar questions and their explanations to answers are also good.

Prior to the bar exam, i had practised over 2000 questions on adaptibar.

futurelawyer12 · Post by **futurelawyer12** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:07 am

I jumped over 30 points (120 to 151) on the MBE from July and passed this time. I think this was due to just doing questions over and over and carefully reviewing the answers. I used the Kaplan big book of all the questions and I thought these were the most accurate representation of the real questions on the test. But overall I think the most helpful thing was buying the tests of required questions on the NCBE website. There are four 100 questions tests and they let you grade it online. The test focuses on a lot of the same nuances and details that I saw on the actual MBE and at least five or six questions were basically the same. I took all four tests (2 under timed conditions and 2 I did untimed and over the course of a few days), and scored consistently between a 150 and 155 on all four (they grade it for you and give you a scaled score based on how the questions were actually answered when they appeared on a real exam). It was a very accurate prediction of how I was going to score on the real thing. But in general, just the more questions you do the better. You'll get it next time, just hang in there!!! I know how you feel!

kt2597 · Post by **kt2597** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:04 am

For those who is not living in US, what type of non-immigrant visa shall applied for the admission ceremony purpose? B1/B2 or others

iwantmybar · Post by **iwantmybar** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:43 am

Depends from where you're from.

I'm from europe so my country has a visa exemption program with the US, you just have to pay a fee of 14 euros to get in the US territory for a period of 3 months max.

iwantmybar · Post by **iwantmybar** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:50 am

Hi,

First i'm so sorry that you failed; Everyone here feel for you since we are almost all retakers so we know buddy.

Second, my first attempt I scored 121 on the MBE. This time around I scored 128.7. Honestly, that sucks. I personally would recommend to do ALL the adaptibar questions but they seemed to easy for me. In fact, what I would really recommend is to do the Kaplan questions from the Qbank. I bought the Qbank a week before the exam and the questions seemed completely different but also much harder. I think it was a great help. stARTING that q bank 1 month before would have significantly helped me more with the MBE I believe.

But again, I knew I was a poor mBE performer so I heavily focused on the essays. But since the essays part will be worth 50% instead of 60% next july, I would recommend to focus heavily on the MBE because it is more reliable. However I can't really give you more advices since my mBE was poor and i'm not in a position to help someone about it.

I wish you the best.

kt2597 · Post by **kt2597** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:51 am

Since we have to fill in the form with "status when stating in US". I am not sure what type of status is OK.

Kalani111 · Post by **Kalani111** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:12 am

Sounds like adaptibar is highly acclaimed. My buddy and I used Themis, Barbri, and Kaplan and found the Kaplan to be the hardest. With unlimited resources I would go with Kaplan.

City Love · Post by **City Love** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:14 am

If this means that you failed, I am so sorry but I know that you will get it next time. Here's my personal MBE advice--of course, everyone is different, so adjust as needed.

Kaplan Qbank. All the way. I used Kaplan for two state bars and passed both--152 MBE in FL and 149.5 MBE in NY. I started off with...115 diagnostic? Something like that. A huge jump.

For my first bar exam, I was studying full-time and not working, so I did thousands of Qbank questions. Close to 2000 (I was only able to manage around 750 when I took NY because I was working). I kept a Word document, tabbed by MBE subject, where I copy/pasted the answer explanations. For the first several hundred, I did this even if I got the question right. Then, as time was running out and I wanted to make sure I was writing full essays and submitting them (Kaplan has unlimited essay grading, which I used and abused), I did it only if I got the question wrong. I would study these correct and incorrect answer explanations and hammer them into my brain. I would highlight key words and phrases so I could pull them up in my head when necessary. I even printed out the explanations in the last couple of weeks before the exam to review.

The thing with the MBE is...it sort of becomes fun after a while. There's a limited universe of possibilities. I felt like I'd seen EVERY possible combination of MBE issues going into both exams, and finished with 15-20 minutes to spare each time. I agree with an earlier poster who said that the Kaplan Qbank questions often felt harder than the actual MBE. They're very true-to-the-test. Many of my friends who took Barbri last summer complained that the Barbri questions were easier than the MBE. Again, personal experience all around, and everyone is different, but just relaying what I heard. I did a handful of actual NCBE questions before the test, too, but didn't go outside of Kaplan very much at all.

This is getting long, so aside from Kaplan, I also studied with the Critical Pass Flashcards to just get black letter MBE law into my brain (and I'm assuming this will be UBE law, too?). I would highlight/star/write notes on cards where I continued to get answers wrong (i.e., UCC and common law distinctions used to trip me up when I wasn't paying attention), and go through them until they became second nature.

Just my own personal strategy. I found the MBE to be my strong point for both exams because of this. Best of luck to you. You can do this.

AnnTheEgg · Post by **AnnTheEgg** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:24 am

The first time around I didn't do nearly as many MBE questions (or essays) as I should have. When I did, I didn't review the answer explanation thoroughly enough.

This time around I did many more MBE questions (BARBRI). For each MBE question that I got wrong, I would find the specific rule that determined the correct answer, look it up in the BARBRI long outline, and write the questions number next to it. That way I had a log of the rules tested most frequently and I could see how the same rule was tested in different ways. Convisor Review book is helpful for review, but as base prep, the Barbri long outline is where it is at. I found the professor lecture outlines pretty much worthless (the purple book). I used the crap purple book for my main prep the first time around (and look how that turned out).

I focused my studies on MBE for the majority of my prep and for the last 2-3 weeks I honed in on essays. My goal was to know MBE law really well before switching over to NY law so as to minimize confusion between the two. This was my personal strategy because I knew I was stronger on the multiple choice rather than the essays. I also don't know how well this will work for the UBE since NY law won't be directly on it!

rntojd · Post by **rntojd** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:30 am

" I focused my studies on MBE for the majority of my prep and for the last 2-3 weeks I honed in on essays. My goal was to know MBE law really well before switching over to NY law so as to minimize confusion between the two. This was my personal strategy because I knew I was stronger on the multiple choice rather than the essays. I also don't know how well this will work for the UBE since NY law won't be directly on it![/quote]

My guess is that strategy wouldwork even better for the UBE because the MBE is worth 50% on the UBE. Just a guess though.

AnnTheEgg · Post by **AnnTheEgg** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:38 am

My guess is that strategy wouldwork even better for the UBE because the MBE is worth 50% on the UBE. Just a guess though.[/quote]

That is a good point! I have not looked into the details of the UBE much but I would assume different law/topics are tested on MC versus essay portion like on the older version.

Jackkk · Post by **Jackkk** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:01 am

I also passed with 138.1 MBE score but last July exam my MBE score was 140 and even I did maybe 4-5 thousand questions more, it went down. I answered the adaptibar questions maybe three times because at the end I saw the number for questions was 6200, the percentage was %92 and I did all NCBE tests , the last one , could be from 2013 Exam I had only one wrong ,99 right and within like 90 minutes. I think the problem is you are becoming familiar with some types of questions and once you see a question , without looking at the answers , you know the answer. Anyway in my opinion for MBE , no matter Kaplan , Barbri or Adaptibar because I answered all questions , the most important thing is you are a kind of person who is good at multiple choice exams. The only different thing I did last time memorizing all Seperac master issues like 300 issues regardless his division of High- Medium - Low . I memorized by writing and writing all issues. I also did all essays for the last 20 years. MBE by itself is not enough.

If you failed this time, never give up because this exam is not an easy exam for most of people. It requires hard work , very hard work.

answer23 · Post by **answer23** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:15 pm

Adaptibar is the best supplement by far. I did the traditional class with pieper. Take notes, go to every lecture and practice each section with adaptibar after I was done with the lecture. I also work full time so it was a lot easier to do questions on my phone instead of logging around the big ass MBE book. You can do questions on your lunch break, waiting on line at Starbucks, the subway when there is WiFi. I ended up doing over 3000 questions ended up with a 150 MBE. Also barprep hero is a free online non actual mbe questions that accurately predicted my score. Around 70% correct.

BRAatDC · Post by **BRAatDC** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:32 pm

I failed July 15 with a 122 MBE. In retrospect it was largely due trying to study while working full-time with way too much going on at work. Also, a bit of naivety led me to rely too much on passively absorbing BARBRI lectures/outlines, when I knew deep-down that I learn differently. That said, BARBRI probably does work for at least one standard deviation of the population, if not two.

Essays were never an issue for me in the sense that I understand how to IRAC, write well, and generally think very quickly (for better or worse). So for me, it was just figuring out how to maximize the law uptake, whether black letter or NY.

Using the Seperac calculator, I determined that with my July essay scores I only needed to answer roughly an additional 10 MBE questions correctly to pass that exam. So I could have made up the ground either way. Stronger MBE or essays. Both were deficient in July, but neither by much.

I passed this time, with a 137 MBE.

A lot of people are recommending various products, and admittedly, that is how I came across Adaptibar for this go-round. I second its use. I didn't even touch BARBRI's MBE tool this go round. I found Adaptibar easier to use and felt the questions were more representative of what you find on the MBE. However, the product is only half of the equation.

To that end, here is the technique that I used to bump up my score 15 points, and it's reasonably similar to what Seperac suggests:

Open up an Excel spreadsheet. Save is as "MBE Rule List" or whatever. Make a tab for each of the seven areas of tested law. In each tab make two columns: one for the Category within the area of law, and one for the Rule itself. Freeze Panes Top Row and set it up as a table so the rows are alternately shaded. It helps to break it up visually.

Then, as you do the MBE practice questions, insert any rules from questions you got incorrect. Also, any that you potentially guessed correctly, or knew but maybe didn't feel like you had a command of. Anything you didn't firmly know. Sometimes you'll insert a rule more than once, or with different wording. Insert it anyway.

With Adaptibar specifically, it breaks down your strengths and weaknesses in each category or subcategory in a way that I don't remember BARBRI doing. So once I had a significant enough collection of rules spread across my list, I could begin to sort by the subcategories I was particularly deficient at, and burn them into my brain. My list was constantly evolving and being re-highlighted in Excel. I would usually re-highlight once every week or two. Probably actually more like every 200 questions. I never did actual practice tests. Just sets of 30-50 at a time, and then before I shut down MBE practice the week before the exam, I did two separate 100 question checkrides.

I did something vaguely similar to this for the first administration, but it was nowhere near as organized or evolving. It was a very static list of rules extracted from BARBRI MBE practice.

All I can say is, don't just accept the study programs as one-stop solutions. If you don't pass on the first go-round, you're probably going to need to Voltron some sort of solution that works for you, directly. Also, for NY law, I used Seperac and found his outlines to be a solid 8/10. This is sort of rendered moot now for you UBE folks, but yeah, I fully credit that spreadsheet for getting me to a passing score.

bwy33 · Post by **bwy33** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:42 pm

I also highly recommend Adaptibar for those struggling with the MBE. I failed last July with 128.1 but this time passed with 145.7. It felt still difficult this time around, but practicing with Adaptibar made me less panic reading the questions. I think it's also important to go over each answer choice and figure out why or why not they are the answer. I realized that I was getting exact same questions wrong again when I solved it at different times, meaning that I wasn't understanding the call of the question. Taking time to analyze some of the difficult questions that way made me improve.

I also used Emanuel's Straegies & Tactics question book. This one was good for me to understand the basic rules and how they applied to the question. I personally think it has good answer explanation.

Taking simulated exams witin the time is also important. I'm a foreigner + a slow reader so I always struggled with time management. But practicing did make the difference. I started doing 50qs then increased to 100qs and tried my best to finish them in time. At the real exam, I was able to skip some long qs and do more short qs first then return.
I think the bar exam and especially MBE is a mental game so you really need to adopt your own strategies and play it smart. My stubbornness did not work the first time, and believe that it was these changes in my approach that helped me improve.

As a retaker who suffered both mentally and physically for this exam, I truly hope that everyone passes and feel at last accomplished. We all worked so hard to finish law school and that fact alone proves that we can overcome this last hurdle to become a lawyer. This forum helped me survive through this painful time. Good luck to everyone!

squiggle · Post by **squiggle** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:24 am

I'm taking my third state this summer (long story), and my MBE score has improved each time. I credit that to doing a large volume of questions. This time around I'm using Emmanuel's, Adaptibar, and Critical Pass. I'm working full-time, but I have been able to carry the Critical Pass cards with me and do Adapitbar questions on my iPad when I have free time here or there.

I don't recommend paying for a full bar course, which I did for my first bar exam. You can definitely get by with Barbri's Conviser Mini Review (CMR), Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, and Barbri's Practice Essay/MPTS, all of which can be purchased through Amazon and eBay, especially right now after results have been released. I also have a $50 discount code for Adaptibar. Just PM with your email address, and I can email you the code. Sometimes there are also Critical Pass discount codes floating around on their Facebook page or a forum, so check around before purchasing. Happy studying!

Nybar2015 · Post by **Nybar2015** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:08 am

The key to MBE is practice, practice, practice. I am saying this becoz I failed twice and this is what did during my 3rd attempt.

Step -1: choose a course or courses and stick to it. You need to complete at least one course. I did kaplan mbe 6 day course. I liked the lectures because they were shorter and crisper. But i did not like the explanations compared to barbri mbe. I completed kaplan and then did roughly 200-300 barbri mbe as I had no time. But I liked barbri explanations than kaplan though it was too late to switch. A majority liked adaptibar, so you can try that too. Get NCBE qs too, bcos it looks like they are more accurate than kaplan or barbri.

Step - 2: read your outline for every subject thoroughly and then start doing the mbe. Take around 2-3 days for every subject and do the mbe for the next 2-3 days.

Step - 3: you might not be able to do a question in 1:45secs. I nearly took 5-7 mins in the beginning but as you practice you will improve.
Also do sets of 10 or 17 questions Talwar for the first 50qs, then increase it to 33 qs and then 60 or 70 depending on your comfort.

Step -4: as many said key is to read all the explanations even if you get the question correct. Honestly the ones we get correct may be becoz of luck

. So read read read explanation and that is key.

Step - 5: again as many said make a mbe rules sheet either handwritten or on comp. I did write as I am not great at typing. But if you know typing it truly helps you to organise the rules. Write down all rules that you guessed or got wrong. You can then see what is most tested in mbe. So that would be helpful for your final review.

Step- 6: do take the simulated mbe at least 3-4 weeks before the exam. That score would give you an idea where you stand in mbe: I got 105 in kaplan and my actual mbe is 126, I know it's bad but guess that 10% improvement helped me. Do simulated mbe 3-4 weeks b4 exam because you improve your weak areas and increase final mbe by 10-50%.

Step - 7: revise the rules sheet that you prepared before the exam.

texas2dclawchick · Post by **texas2dclawchick** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:27 am

Anyone have any idea how different prep for UBE will be?

1styearlateral · Post by **1styearlateral** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:35 am

Probably much easier and less overwhelming. You can pretty much forget about studying for Trusts/Estates, Corp., Family Law, No-Fault Insurance, etc. PLUS all those quirky NY exceptions. All of those will be tested separately and open-book (searchable PDF... I took a stab at their example questions and nearly aced them without studying or looking at the prep materials).

Just know your basic common law for the tested MBE subjects and you should be good to go.

However, since there will be less subjects to know, you might need to master more of the topics that are covered... I'm interested to see if NY "raises the bar" on UBE admissions.

z0rk · Post by **z0rk** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:08 pm

This is misleading, and not entirely true. The UBE tests on Trusts, Family Law, Corporations, and Secured Transactions. The NCBE has an outline of subjects test on the MEE here: http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2 ... ment%2F183, you can also view a comparison chart of the topic changes here: http://www.thelawinsider.com/lawschool/ ... m-changes/.

I mean this with all due respect to those who are trying to help you, but my suggestion is to take all advice from those who have not, or will not in the future, take the UBE with a grain of salt. The UBE is a different test than the February 2016 NY Bar Exam in that it is written by the NCBE, not the NY BOLE, and its emphasis and grading will be set by the NCBE. Do your homework, and bunker down. The bar is a test of two skills -- your knowledge of law and your test taking abilities. If you approach studying with that frame of mind, and really study both the subject matter of the law and the test, you can build strength as a bar examinee.

You can do this. I believe in you! Best of luck.

NY_Sea · Post by **NY_Sea** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:16 pm

Sorry to detour away from UBE, but now that I've had a day or two for this to really sink in, I really just wanted to thank every single person that participated in this thread. Regardless of the outcome, you all have really helped me through a pretty challenging time in my life, and for that I will always be grateful.

For the people who passed this go around, especially repeaters like myself, congrat-u-fucking-lations! It wasn't easy studying while working full time, but the people in here who were repeating really helped me maintain a positive mindset, which I think is absolutely crucial for learning and memorizing the material after this second time. I could not have done this without people who were going through the same thing I was. I get so much more happiness out of seeing people like d_sat, barslammer, starryski, NM7, and Ineedhelp passing than even passing myself.

For the people who it didn't go the way we all wanted, just know two things:

1) This test is not indicative at all of how you will be as an attorney... It's a test that's designed to trip you up and make you second guess yourself at every turn, not a "minimum competency" test that they describe it as. A lot of the test is preparation and work, but any person would be lying if they didn't say it was partially luck as well. I felt horrible for a decent amount of time about failing, even though I had a medical issue in July that took study time away. I put on a brave face and told everyone I knew that I didn't care, partially because I didn't think they would understand or they would just brush it off and say things like "Oh, it's ok, you'll get it next time". Eventually you come to a point where you realize that you're capable of doing this and you will put all of your effort into it. It may be different times for different people, but know it will be ok and that there are people who care about you who will listen to you if you need to vent or complain or just grieve.

2) Speaking of people being there for you... I want to say that I am making myself available to any person who didn't pass who would like to talk to me, ask for advice, or just flat out vent. People like to bash this site and compare it to the comments section of ATL, but it really is so much more than that. It's a community... A huge group of people who are in eerily similar situations and know exactly what you're going through at any given moment. Leverage and use that. Know that I know what you're going through and that I want every single person in this thread who has to go through this again to feel the way I feel now.

There are really few places on the internet where you have a community like we do here... There are sports forums, video game forums, etc., but that's only a group of people who share common interests. This is a group of people who all share a similar life experience. I've honestly been thinking how happy I am that I started to come here and actually contribute and interact with the people here. It helps more than you think.

Wow, this got real long, real quick. TL;DR: Congrats to the people who passed and to the people who didn't, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

gtg · Post by **gtg** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:00 pm

We should have something like a TLS NY Bar Exam Celebration and just get drunk together

myrtlewinston · Post by **myrtlewinston** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Congrats to those who passed! For others, look forward to multiple admissions!

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