July 2015 MBE Scores/Results Forum

[comet_halley]

So I thought I would throw in my two cents: the reason I care about the MBE screwing everyone else is that I, and many others, took the bar exam in states that scale their essay score to the mean national MBE score to normalize essay scores over time.

For example, in my jurisdiction (Virginia) you need a total score of 140 to pass with 60% of your score being the essay portion of the bar exam and 40% being the MBE. So if the national average MBE score is below a 140 that means writing an "average" essay sets you up to fail the bar exam. That's just not a fun place to be when Virginia has a bazillion topics that are testable on the essay day.

I've been vacillating between confident about the bar exam and not very confident - mostly because I just have no idea how the MBE went. And even if I pass, and the fact is that I probably will, I think it's a little stupid that some people won't simply because their peers did poorly on a fairly BS multiple choice exam.

Interesting. Does anyone know if California does this too?

CA does the same thing except that its bar is set as 144.

[sdphill]

So I thought I would throw in my two cents: the reason I care about the MBE screwing everyone else is that I, and many others, took the bar exam in states that scale their essay score to the mean national MBE score to normalize essay scores over time.

For example, in my jurisdiction (Virginia) you need a total score of 140 to pass with 60% of your score being the essay portion of the bar exam and 40% being the MBE. So if the national average MBE score is below a 140 that means writing an "average" essay sets you up to fail the bar exam. That's just not a fun place to be when Virginia has a bazillion topics that are testable on the essay day.

I've been vacillating between confident about the bar exam and not very confident - mostly because I just have no idea how the MBE went. And even if I pass, and the fact is that I probably will, I think it's a little stupid that some people won't simply because their peers did poorly on a fairly BS multiple choice exam.

Interesting. Does anyone know if California does this too?

CA does the same thing except that its bar is set as 144.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is this 140/144? Is this an average on all parts or total? (I know nothing about any other State's bar except my own)

[UVAIce]

So I thought I would throw in my two cents: the reason I care about the MBE screwing everyone else is that I, and many others, took the bar exam in states that scale their essay score to the mean national MBE score to normalize essay scores over time.

For example, in my jurisdiction (Virginia) you need a total score of 140 to pass with 60% of your score being the essay portion of the bar exam and 40% being the MBE. So if the national average MBE score is below a 140 that means writing an "average" essay sets you up to fail the bar exam. That's just not a fun place to be when Virginia has a bazillion topics that are testable on the essay day.

I've been vacillating between confident about the bar exam and not very confident - mostly because I just have no idea how the MBE went. And even if I pass, and the fact is that I probably will, I think it's a little stupid that some people won't simply because their peers did poorly on a fairly BS multiple choice exam.

Interesting. Does anyone know if California does this too?

CA does the same thing except that its bar is set as 144.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is this 140/144? Is this an average on all parts or total? (I know nothing about any other State's bar except my own)

I'm not sure California does this, but Virginia scales its essay scores based on the national average on the MBE of that cycle. So, if the national average MBE score in July was a 140, then whatever lucky person(s) to sit in the middle of all the Virginia essay scores would receive a 140. If the national average for that same July cycle was a 135, then that same average essay would receive a 135, which is a failing score in Virginia unless your MBE score was high enough to bring the total combined score to 140, but since the essay is weighted 60% it's a little more difficult than other jurisdictions. So if nationally everyone does well on the MBE your chances to pass increase, but if they do poorly your chances to pass decrease; and this is all practically independent on your own ability/scores.

[mike.alexander23]

I vaguely remember someone mentioning October 1st release dates. Sending good vibes tonight!

[slavetothebar]

Illinois Charts are up
https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... -july-2015

[zot1]

Alright, Illinois people. Tell us what's good.

[sdphill]

Alright, Illinois people. Tell us what's good.

Personally, I don't know how to read the percentile chart, but I did compare it to the 2014 Percentile Chart. It looks like 2015 Illinois scores took a dip like many other States this year.

2014 Chart: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/july201 ... ent-charts

[Bexy73]

Alright, Illinois people. Tell us what's good.

We need a 266 this year to pass, so that looks like it is somewhere around a 73-75% pass rate. We are down from last year, but that is possibly because they increased the cut score from 264.

[kyle010723]

Alright, Illinois people. Tell us what's good.

Personally, I don't know how to read the percentile chart, but I did compare it to the 2014 Percentile Chart. It looks like 2015 Illinois scores took a dip like many other States this year.

2014 Chart: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/july201 ... ent-charts

I look at the percentile chart and compare it to my Barbri percentile and estimate that is probably where I will end up. Probably the best estimate unless you know your score.

ETA: I.e., if you have been consistently in the 60 percentile on Barbri, your MBE is probably around 145 according to the chart.

[Bexy73]

Personally, I don't know how to read the percentile chart, but I did compare it to the 2014 Percentile Chart. It looks like 2015 Illinois scores took a dip like many other States this year.

2014 Chart: https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/july201 ... ent-charts

Yeah, these charts are awkward at best. To see where people are getting this estimate, you want to look at the Total Scaled Score and Total Percentile Columns. This year, 31% scored 270 or lower; and 22% scored 260 or lower. If you split the difference you end up with 266 around the 25-28% range. Hope that helps.

[nyny]

I'm rooting for Illinois to kill it on the bar, thats one of the first big states to report!! That would only bode well for the bigger states.

[Reggaetron]

Passed in Illinois. Also, as just a head's up for people, I took Barbri classes and watched almost all of the lectures. I only did about 200-400 practice MBE questions in total. I only completed less than 40% of the course material that Barbri assigned. I studied maybe 3 to 4 hours each day and increased that to 6 hours a day in the week and a half leading up to the exam. I relied heavily on the Conviser Mini Review and also made my own flashcards for most of the MBE subjects and reviewed those flashcards whenever I had free time.

I felt TERRIBLE about the morning MBE section, but better about the afternoon session. I felt great about the essays for the most part. I really didn't study that much and I was scared shitless that I wouldn't pass. BUT IT DID WHAT IT DO SO HEEEEYYYY YEEEAAAAAH!

[theinvisiblehand]

I just found out that I passed Illinois! I'm so relieved. When I came out of the MBE I felt completely awful. I identified almost 30 questions that I was positive I missed, as well as another 70 that I had almost no clue about. I had done themis and averaged 65% on 1400 MBE practice questions, and a 120/200 on the simulated exam. While Illinois does not release scores if people passed, I would not be surprised if I could not transfer my MBE to any other jurisdiction because it was so low. But at least its finally over!

[zot1]

Congrats, y'all!

I didn't understand the chart, but if, like someone mentioned just before, the scores took a dip there too, it's not looking all that great. But I think just Illinois is a small sample for the big states.

Again, congrats to those who passed. Go drink yourself silly.

What state is next?

[Shorttermuser]

Congrats, y'all!

I didn't understand the chart, but if, like someone mentioned just before, the scores took a dip there too, it's not looking all that great. But I think just Illinois is a small sample for the big states.

Again, congrats to those who passed. Go drink yourself silly.

What state is next?

Connecticut is released tomorrow

[powergirl10]

Just passed in Illinois. For those still waiting, I thought the MBE was the hardest most ridiculous exam I've ever taken in my 27 years of living lol. I'm sure it was my essays that pulled me through. Also I did Themis, but stopped doing practice multiple choice questions half way through because I could no longer stand not being able to underline and circle words as I was doing problems. I ended up buying a PMBR book and an Emmanuel's Strategies and Tactics book from Amazon and practicng out of those for the rest of the time. I did continue practicing essays on Themis though. And the real kicker...I was 10 weeks pregnant during the exam, and while the morning sickness had subsided, I was still ravenously hungry, like I had to stop myself from eating the scantron kind of hungry. Maybe only those who have been pregnant will be able to fully appreciate what I'm saying, but basically, if I can do it, you can do it. Illinois does not release scores but if I end up paying to get them released, I'll get back to you. Peace, blessings and good news to those still waiting!

[zot1]

Does IL eventually release the list publicly like CA?

[powergirl10]

No, I don't think so.

[Bexy73]

Passed in Illinois. We don't receive our scores, but I got a 126 on the Barbri MBE simulated exam. I also thought that the real MBE was a nightmare - morning was worse than afternoon.

However, I do want to thank everyone for posting here as it was one of the only things keeping me sane while waiting for results. Robinhood, thank you especially for keeping these stats for us. I know it represents a lot of work!

Good luck to those still waiting. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed and sending good vibes your way.

[robinhoodOO]

Passed in Illinois. We don't receive our scores, but I got a 126 on the Barbri MBE simulated exam. I also thought that the real MBE was a nightmare - morning was worse than afternoon.

However, I do want to thank everyone for posting here as it was one of the only things keeping me sane while waiting for results. Robinhood, thank you especially for keeping these stats for us. I know it represents a lot of work!

Good luck to those still waiting. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed and sending good vibes your way.

Congrats to you, and others who received good news in IL today!

*Update: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[Wooglin1423]

So I thought I would throw in my two cents: the reason I care about the MBE screwing everyone else is that I, and many others, took the bar exam in states that scale their essay score to the mean national MBE score to normalize essay scores over time.

For example, in my jurisdiction (Virginia) you need a total score of 140 to pass with 60% of your score being the essay portion of the bar exam and 40% being the MBE. So if the national average MBE score is below a 140 that means writing an "average" essay sets you up to fail the bar exam. That's just not a fun place to be when Virginia has a bazillion topics that are testable on the essay day.

I've been vacillating between confident about the bar exam and not very confident - mostly because I just have no idea how the MBE went. And even if I pass, and the fact is that I probably will, I think it's a little stupid that some people won't simply because their peers did poorly on a fairly BS multiple choice exam.

Interesting. Does anyone know if California does this too?

CA does the same thing except that its bar is set as 144.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is this 140/144? Is this an average on all parts or total? (I know nothing about any other State's bar except my own)

I'm not sure California does this, but Virginia scales its essay scores based on the national average on the MBE of that cycle. So, if the national average MBE score in July was a 140, then whatever lucky person(s) to sit in the middle of all the Virginia essay scores would receive a 140. If the national average for that same July cycle was a 135, then that same average essay would receive a 135, which is a failing score in Virginia unless your MBE score was high enough to bring the total combined score to 140, but since the essay is weighted 60% it's a little more difficult than other jurisdictions. So if nationally everyone does well on the MBE your chances to pass increase, but if they do poorly your chances to pass decrease; and this is all practically independent on your own ability/scores.

Arbitrary & capricious? I also took the exam in Virginia and I'm not sure how this circus is even legal. Whether a person is "minimally competent" to practice law in Virginia apparently does not depend on the individual's capability, but rather on a lottery of how other test-takers in other states perform on a multiple choice exam. Even if the VBBE scaled the essay test to the state MBE average, it would still be asinine. They are two different examinations, prepared by two different entities, proctored on two different days, testing on two different genres of law... One year, the MBE could be a cake-walk while the Virginia essay exam test 9 straight questions of secured transactions and tax law.

Regardless... it appears the essay's are scaled to the national MBE average. I think the part that makes it arbitrary is that Virginia does not fluctuate the score needed to pass. It's always a hard 140. The MBE scores could dip because the lights went out in CA, construction was loud in NY, or the A/C broke in Texas, but the Virginia score required to pass will remain unchanged. I am flabbergasted that the gauge used to determine whether I get to practice law changes based on other test-takers; it has less to do with my legal knowledge and more to do with how other people perform on exam day. I am in total disbelief this is how Virginia licenses lawyers / that this is a valid licensing procedure. They might as well scale the essay scores to the average rainfall for the year, at least that'd be more predictable.

The essays and the MBE are two different animals. It's like changing how many points a touch-down is worth by scaling it to average number of home-runs... Who won, the Ravens or Steelers? I guess, we'll just need to wait for baseball season to end for us to find out.That must be why it takes so damn long to get out test results back...

Okay. End Rant.

[BrokenMouse]

.

[grizz20]

Just wanted to point a few things out about Erica Moeser that are from her bio on the UW-Madison webpage. (1) She came from a law school with diploma privilege. (2) She has never practiced law.

Okay. I passed the bar. I am fine with not everyone passing a bar exam. But like many previous posters, I am surprised by her remarks.

While we may be more incompetent students, she has demonstrated her incompetence by giving conclusions without stats, never practicing law, and never sitting for an actual bar exam.

[Killingly]

Passed in CT! Will update with my MBE score. Very interested to see since 16 of my first 30 answers were D and I left early during the PM section.

[Shorttermuser]

Passed in CT! Will update with my MBE score. Very interested to see since 16 of my first 30 answers were D and I left early during the PM section.

Congrats! Passed in CT too! Congrats everyone!