February 2015 Bar Exam Forum

[cooperlaserpup]

Pairing an IPA with a crim pro review. Wild Friday night.

jealous. thought about a glass of whiskey but in my current state I'm pretty sure I'd be unable to resist five glasses and an episode of game of thrones.

instead I'm considering ordering delivery ice cream. god bless nyc.

[fslexcduck]

wow, what a fantastic idea. thanks for the inspiration. i'm currently on whiskey #2... suddenly venue seems a lot less pressing.

now on to the most important part of your post. delivery ice cream? seriously, that's a thing???

[aretoodeetoo]

watched entire Pacquiao/Bradley 2 fight after finding out from the rest of society that Mayweather/Pacquiao are fighting. hard to think that someone can throw 1000 punches in the time it takes me to discuss Dan and Eric's potential criminal charges

[cooperlaserpup]

wow, what a fantastic idea. thanks for the inspiration. i'm currently on whiskey #2... suddenly venue seems a lot less pressing.

now on to the most important part of your post. delivery ice cream? seriously, that's a thing???

YEP. delivery service called try caviar...first order is free, after that it is $5 for fast delivery from a ton of good places, including odd fellows ice cream in williamsburg. I definitely recommend.

[numbertwo88]

Curious -- How are you all spending the last few days?

Anyone feeling good yet? Or maybe not "good" but confident perhaps? I teeter totter between the two when I'm not crippled with stress.

[46-and-2]

I shift from modest confidence to mortal terror.

[ilovetypos]

I shift from modest confidence to mortal terror.

This.

[nvbar2015]

Curious -- How are you all spending the last few days?

Anyone feeling good yet? Or maybe not "good" but confident perhaps? I teeter totter between the two when I'm not crippled with stress.

I'm going to finish my studying on Sunday night. Monday I'm going to go to registration, then see a movie. I won't even look at my books.

I feel confident that I know a lot more than last time. It's reflecting in my MBE scores. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on all the subjects but I'm nervous about which subjects will be tested on the essays. Also nervous because I failed it once before. I don't think I ever experienced a crappier feeling than not seeing my name on the pass list last time.

[Elms]

wow, what a fantastic idea. thanks for the inspiration. i'm currently on whiskey #2... suddenly venue seems a lot less pressing.

now on to the most important part of your post. delivery ice cream? seriously, that's a thing???

YEP. delivery service called try caviar...first order is free, after that it is $5 for fast delivery from a ton of good places, including odd fellows ice cream in williamsburg. I definitely recommend.

WHAT?!? Delivery ice cream?!? Mind=blown.

P.S. Tequila is my study buddy tonight.

[cooperlaserpup]

I still run into sample essays with sections where I'm just like "wait. wat." When I read the answers it all make sense, I just don't have everything committed to memory. Usually there will be at least one section that I'm solid on.

Luckily if my MBE and MPT hold up then I should pass if I get 3/10 on the other NY essays. If I get mostly 4s and 5s then I'm in the clear. But its incredibly nerve wracking to be this close to the exam and not instantly know every essay when I read the prompt.

For example until this point I had never had an essay question for wills that asked about cy pres. Got one and was like what in the actual fuck. Looked it up and was able to analyze just fine, but had that come up on exam day I would have lost 2-3 points on that section. But hey, now I know it. I guess that's the point of going over so many essays.

Do you guys feel like this? Or is every essay pretty obvious as soon as you read it?

[redblueyellow]

I still run into sample essays with sections where I'm just like "wait. wat." When I read the answers it all make sense, I just don't have everything committed to memory. Usually there will be at least one section that I'm solid on.

Do you guys feel like this?

Yes, all the time.

Or is every essay pretty obvious as soon as you read it?

Lol. /sob

[fslexcduck]

I'm in the same boat but I'm not worried. I kinda feel like anyone who is putting in the work that we all are putting in on this board is gonna turn out just fine. If you know your stuff on the major topics, you're gonna ace a couple (70+ on at least two of them), so if there are a couple you absolutely bomb, you can still fake your way into 30 points...

It seems like it's hard not to average AT LEAST 50 points on the essays since you're gonna ace a couple of them (torts, crim law/pro, family law (hint: everything is best interests of the child and list random factors) you GOT this), so combined with even a 140 MBE and average or even slightly below average MPT + NY multiple choice, that's a passing score in NY.

I feel like for anyone who has put in the work to study, these numbers are pretty bare minimum for what you can expect to get on the essays at least and we are all freaking out for nothing (probably mostly due to our overly draconian bar prep graders).

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm trying to go glass half full from here on out.

[cooperlaserpup]

I'm in the same boat but I'm not worried. I kinda feel like anyone who is putting in the work that we all are putting in on this board is gonna turn out just fine. If you know your stuff on the major topics, you're gonna ace a couple (70+ on at least two of them), so if there are a couple you absolutely bomb, you can still fake your way into 30 points...

It seems like it's hard not to average AT LEAST 50 points on the essays since you're gonna ace a couple of them (torts, crim law/pro, family law (hint: everything is best interests of the child and list random factors) you GOT this), so combined with even a 140 MBE and average or even slightly below average MPT + NY multiple choice, that's a passing score in NY.

I feel like for anyone who has put in the work to study, these numbers are pretty bare minimum for what you can expect to get and we are all freaking out for nothing (probably mostly due to our overly draconian bar prep graders).

haha true! good advice, thanks. My MPTs are actually really solid and I've been above 50% with the NYMC so I think I just need to keep reminding myself that you're totally right- even a couple good essays should let me fake my way through the rest.

I JUST WANT THE MADNESS TO STOP!!

I also want my upstairs neighbors to stop BLASTING weird keyboard music that sounds like gregorian monks chanting. not even joking.

[BobbyBooBoo]

I'm just gonna throw out my predictions, since I can't help but keep guessing what they are going to test on.

I'll look back and see how accurate I am once the exam is over!

Personal predictions not based on anything but sheer GUT BABY!

Full Professional Responsibility Question
CA Civil Procedure
Wills and Trust c/o

Torts and Constitution c/o
Real Property
Contracts c/o Remedy

[redblueyellow]

I'm just gonna throw out my predictions, since I can't help but keep guessing what they are going to test on.

I'll look back and see how accurate I am once the exam is over!

Personal predictions not based on anything but sheer GUT BABY!

Full Professional Responsibility Question
CA Civil Procedure
Wills and Trust c/o

Torts and Constitution c/o
Real Property
Contracts c/o Remedy

Defamation?

[fslexcduck]

I don't know what CA is like, but full professional responsibility is BOLD. Also, NY always has family law.

My guess for NY is:

Family law (and the fictitious people will be a gay couple)/professional responsibility
Crim law/crim pro/random evidence question
Contracts/property/NY practice

Torts + corporations/partnerships
Wills/trusts/NY practice aside

I think they're BSing on admin law.

If I get all of my predictions and permutations exactly right (the odds of which are probably significantly worse than being struck by lightning), you all owe me a beer.

[ilovetypos]

Haven't seen Holly post today. Where you at girl?

[Metaread]

I want ice cream delivery too!

Ok, other serious stuff. I only score 70-80% in one MBE subject, and in Real Property I'm getting only 50% correct, but at least it's consistent. Everything else I'm scoring 40%-65% correct and that means if I pass it will be because of my essays. Shivering in my boots. Do-not-want-to-fail.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding lots of conflicting law now that the exam is a few days away.

Here's a fun one. Kaplan says that in most jurisdictions, the victim doesn't need to be afraid of imminent harm to have a viable assault claim. They say most jurisdictions define assault as attempted battery. So shooting a gun at a guy who doesn't notice means you are guilty of assault. Barbri indicates that for assault, you need to create an actual fear of harm. So a blacksmith who throws his hammer at some tourist (who has his back turned to the blacksmith) can't be guilty of assault, because the tourist didn't see him throw the hammer and so he couldn't be afraid of imminent harm. Is Kaplan right or is Barbri right? I used to think shooting a guy who doesn't see you (and failing to hit) is attempted assault, while throwing a hammer at someone who sees you do it and is fearful means you are guilty of assault. But now I don't know which standard is right. I think Emmanuel also follows the Barbri approach because they talk about "apprehension of a harmful or offensive contact" for assault.

Also, what contracts do you need consideration for? I know that there is some contract where you need consideration but it doesn't have to be within the Statute of Frauds. I'm flipping through my outlines like c-c-crazy and can't find it. Help. Help.

[redblueyellow]

I want ice cream delivery too!

Ok, other serious stuff. I only score 70-80% in one MBE subject, and in Real Property I'm getting only 50% correct, but at least it's consistent. Everything else I'm scoring 40%-65% correct and that means if I pass it will be because of my essays. Shivering in my boots. Do-not-want-to-fail.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm finding lots of conflicting law now that the exam is a few days away.

Here's a fun one. Kaplan says that in most jurisdictions, the victim doesn't need to be afraid of imminent harm to have a viable assault claim. They say most jurisdictions define assault as attempted battery. So shooting a gun at a guy who doesn't notice means you are guilty of assault. Barbri indicates that for assault, you need to create an actual fear of harm. So a blacksmith who throws his hammer at some tourist (who has his back turned to the blacksmith) can't be guilty of assault, because the tourist didn't see him throw the hammer and so he couldn't be afraid of imminent harm. Is Kaplan right or is Barbri right? I used to think shooting a guy who doesn't see you (and failing to hit) is attempted assault, while throwing a hammer at someone who sees you do it and is fearful means you are guilty of assault. But now I don't know which standard is right. I think Emmanuel also follows the Barbri approach because they talk about "apprehension of a harmful or offensive contact" for assault.

Also, what contracts do you need consideration for? I know that there is some contract where you need consideration but it doesn't have to be within the Statute of Frauds. I'm flipping through my outlines like c-c-crazy and can't find it. Help. Help.

If I recall correctly, there are two types of assault (this would fall more in line with the crim version of assault, I suppose). There's "assault as a threat" (general intent crime) which would be intentional creation of victim's reasonable apprehension of bodily harm. Then there's "assault as an attempted battery" (specific intent crime) which is pretty simply, an "attempted battery" or as some video I watched said "a battery where you have really poor aim."

Under modern statutes, both of these now have "aggravated" varieties which kicks in if you participate in either a battery or assault with a weapon.

And then, I recall somewhere that there's a "criminal assault" and "criminal battery," but I have no idea what those are. Do I need to know those? If so, someone please advise.

[fslexcduck]

I'm not really sure if this is your issue based on the information you gave, but hopefully this helps:

Is it possible you're confusing the crime with the tort?

As I understand, the crime = attempted battery OR the intentional creation of apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact whereas the tort is just the second one. Basically the tort of assault has nothing to do with battery because battery and assault are separate torts, and there is no tort for attempt of another tort, the way there is in criminal law, where attempt of a crime is a wholly separate crime.


As for consideration, all valid contracts need consideration. It doesn't really have to do with the statute of frauds... Pretty much everything has consideration except for gifts, or agreements to accept a lesser payment on an undisputed debt bc you're worried you won't get paid. Courts don't question the amount of consideration ($100 to buy a car is fine). Pretty rare for lack of consideration to be the issue in a contracts Q IMO.

[BeachedBrit]

Are you guys making this distinction for MBE or for essay purposes? If it's only for MBE, i'm not sure i've ever seen an NCBE (not Barbri, etc.) problem that asks for the crim distinction, whereas i've seen a lot on the tort side: subjective/actual apprehension of imminent and offensive touching.

If you're only worried for MBE purposes, I would ignore the other definitions and just go with the Barbri/imminent apprehension definition. The goal here isn't to know the law, it's to get the most questions right and that seems like the definition that will allow you to do so.

[cooperlaserpup]

I don't know what CA is like, but full professional responsibility is BOLD. Also, NY always has family law.

My guess for NY is:

Family law (and the fictitious people will be a gay couple)/professional responsibility
Crim law/crim pro/random evidence question
Contracts/property/NY practice

Torts + corporations/partnerships
Wills/trusts/NY practice aside

I think they're BSing on admin law.

If I get all of my predictions and permutations exactly right (the odds of which are probably significantly worse than being struck by lightning), you all owe me a beer.

I SINCERELY hope they are BSing with admin. I'd be pretty pleased if this is the line up.

[cooperlaserpup]

I'm not really sure if this is your issue based on the information you gave, but hopefully this helps:

Is it possible you're confusing the crime with the tort?

As I understand, the crime = attempted battery OR the intentional creation of apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact whereas the tort is just the second one. Basically the tort of assault has nothing to do with battery because battery and assault are separate torts, and there is no tort for attempt of another tort, the way there is in criminal law, where attempt of a crime is a wholly separate crime.


As for consideration, all valid contracts need consideration. It doesn't really have to do with the statute of frauds... Pretty much everything has consideration except for gifts, or agreements to accept a lesser payment on an undisputed debt bc you're worried you won't get paid. Courts don't question the amount of consideration ($100 to buy a car is fine). Pretty rare for lack of consideration to be the issue in a contracts Q IMO.

I agree with this.

Your state might have its own definition of the crime of assault, and it might not match up with the tort definition. In many places, the CRIME of assault is more or less attempted battery. However the multistate definition of the tort of assault is the fear of imminent harm. Hence why on MBE questions, the guy with the baseball on your door step saying he is going to break your legs if you don't have the money is NOT committing the tort of assault because the fear isn't imminent.

[ilovetypos]

I'm feeling super unmotivated today. Which I feel like is insane, given the test is like three days away.

[redblueyellow]

That was me yesterday; to be fair, I did try to work, but got easily distracted and took way too long to do what I wanted to do.

All my CA peeps are still probably sleeping and the other thread is dead right now I'm sad.