July 2014 Bar Exam results thread Forum

[jd-mba]

How many people take the WI exam? Because anyone who graduates from an in-state school doesn't have to take the bar, I wonder if you just get a fairly small sample such that a relatively small increase in failing scores could result in a fairly significant percentage drop. (Admittedly, there's no reason this would be the case this year any more than any of the past years where the pass rate was higher, I just wondered.)

We all fit into one "saloon" room at the Marriott, so I'm estimating somewhere around 150 this time around. There were quite a few international-looking people taking the test, also like a good 1/5 or so did the essays by hand. A guy near me was something like 50 years old, taking the bar on a whim because he was visiting his mom in Wisconsin. So I think all this collectively might have brought scores down. I think a good number of the people taking the exam were from Minnesota, they all seemed to know each other. But there were also some T14-ers who were moving to WI for whatever reason.

Also, the number of people taking the MBE was actually much smaller, because about a quarter to a third of the people didn't take the MBE and had MBE scores to transfer in from other bars. For example, my row of 4, 2 did not show up on the second day. Almost every row had at least 1 person missing the next day haha.

[L.M1988]

^ I wondered the same. Since all UW (and Marquette) grads automatically gain bar admission upon graduation (must be nice) I wonder how many and what caliber of students take the WI exam? Are the WI average MBEs usually below the national average?

(No offense to anyone who took the exam, I'm genuinely curious. I don't think Milwaukee and Madison are places where T14 grads are flocking for jobs right now)

Well there are a lot of Minnesota Law students who take the exam. Reciprocity lets them get barred in MN and WI if their WI passing scores are high enough.

Then there are people like me who went to law school out of state. A handful of foreign students. A few military getting barred somewhere. Another handful of young associates.

I think between 200-250 took in July. My guess is that the pool is probably slightly worse than the national group.

I'm in Milwaukee. I just hope I get my results today. Mailed 9/2 from Madison.

[Georgia Avenue]

According to the NCBE only 188 took the July 2012 WI bar.

[L.M1988]

Got the WI bar results, passed! Also included a notice saying the NCBE will no longer report raw MBE scores, strange. WI breaks down the score as essay (even down to individual essay, killed the MPT) and MBE, minimum of 258 combined. Postmarked yesterday (9/2). 75% pass rate this year, 139 average on each portion. Received results in Madison. Good luck everyone else!

How did they send it? First class mail? Priority?

I want to know how antsy I should be today

[jd-mba]

Well there are a lot of Minnesota Law students who take the exam. Reciprocity lets them get barred in MN and WI if their WI passing scores are high enough.

What reciprocity are you referring to? Do you have a link? I've searched and the only thing I've seen is you need a 145 on the MBE to waive into Minnesota, but that's with any state, not just WI.

[jd-mba]

Got the WI bar results, passed! Also included a notice saying the NCBE will no longer report raw MBE scores, strange. WI breaks down the score as essay (even down to individual essay, killed the MPT) and MBE, minimum of 258 combined. Postmarked yesterday (9/2). 75% pass rate this year, 139 average on each portion. Received results in Madison. Good luck everyone else!

How did they send it? First class mail? Priority?

I want to know how antsy I should be today

Regular mail envelope, I think that's considered "first class mail" -- the cheap 3 x 8 envelope or whatever that size is.

[L.M1988]

Well there are a lot of Minnesota Law students who take the exam. Reciprocity lets them get barred in MN and WI if their WI passing scores are high enough.

What reciprocity are you referring to? Do you have a link? I've searched and the only thing I've seen is you need a 145 on the MBE to waive into Minnesota, but that's with any state, not just WI.

Sorry, poor choice of words. I just meant to point out that a lot of the bar takers I talked to mentioned getting more easily barred in 2 states as a reason to take Wisconsin.

[brettfavre4]

For Wisconsin people any idea about the essay scaling?

[alicrimson]

What other states are coming out this month?

FL is coming out Mid-September.

September 22nd after 2:00. It'll be a list of numbers online.

[beachbum]

What other states are coming out this month?

Missourah comes out September 16.

[AJS30]

What kills me is that our jurisdictions have our MBE scores. I just wish they would allow NCBE to release our scores (like the MPRE) so that we could have some idea of where we stand. I don't know how I am going to wait another 2 months, especially since I really think I bombed the MBE, but hoping for a surprise.

[jd-mba]

For Wisconsin people any idea about the essay scaling?

I think it might be out of 12, at least according to this unofficial source.

http://barprofessors.wordpress.com/2013 ... -analysis/

[silky bruh]

What other states are coming out this month?

FL is coming out Mid-September.

September 22nd after 2:00. It'll be a list of numbers online.

It always comes out in the morning (they always say after 2pm). Will it be our applicant numbers or the one they gave us test day? I don't remember the latter.

[MoneyMay]

What other states are coming out this month?

FL is coming out Mid-September.

September 22nd after 2:00. It'll be a list of numbers online.

It always comes out in the morning (they always say after 2pm). Will it be our applicant numbers or the one they gave us test day? I don't remember the latter.

It's the applicant number. It's also screwy because there are some applicant numbers that start with a letter ("A" or "B") but that's not the right number-- it's the applicant number that doesn't start with a letter. For me, my older crap from the bar has the wrong applicant number (the older one starting with a letter) while my more recent crap from them has the correct one (the one without a letter). This seems stupid and overly complicated to me but that's my understanding of it.

[BRad]

Idaho comes out next Thursday, Sept. 11. Will be interesting to see how MBE plays out as Idaho has a higher required passing score of 280.

[OhScalia]

Idaho comes out next Thursday, Sept. 11. Will be interesting to see how MBE plays out as Idaho has a higher required passing score of 280.

Will more than 10 people sit for the bar in Idaho?

[BRad]

Idaho comes out next Thursday, Sept. 11. Will be interesting to see how MBE plays out as Idaho has a higher required passing score of 280.

Will more than 10 people sit for the bar in Idaho?

Haha. Maybe a little more than 10.

[UndecidedMN]

A buddy of mine failed WI by 2 points. Can you ask for the exam to be rescored?

[dallaseagle]

Yeah...that concerns me. Do you mind sharing where you got that info?

Also, there was an increase in NC this year of those attended school in NC: In all, 74.97% of total first-time test takers from North Carolina law schools passed the examination, a 3.43% increase from July 2013.

All the stats I provided were in the letter WI sent. Basically letter says:

Dear XX, I am happy to inform you that you have passed the July 2014 Wisconsin Bar Examination.... bs about completing my file ... more bs about who to email and contact for swearing in ceremony .... "The overall pass rate was 75%. The average score was 139 on each portion of the examination."

And it has essay score and mbe score at the top of all that.

Separate page breaks down raw score for each essay, but doesn't provide a scale or range. Same page has MBE raws at the bottom, but it just all says 0% now because NCBE doesn't release it anymore.

The reason they don't release the raw "anymore" is because the July 2014 was wayyyyyyyy too hard and they are too embarassed to admit they had to give a huge bump.

[silky bruh]

Yeah...that concerns me. Do you mind sharing where you got that info?

Also, there was an increase in NC this year of those attended school in NC: In all, 74.97% of total first-time test takers from North Carolina law schools passed the examination, a 3.43% increase from July 2013.

All the stats I provided were in the letter WI sent. Basically letter says:

Dear XX, I am happy to inform you that you have passed the July 2014 Wisconsin Bar Examination.... bs about completing my file ... more bs about who to email and contact for swearing in ceremony .... "The overall pass rate was 75%. The average score was 139 on each portion of the examination."

And it has essay score and mbe score at the top of all that.

Separate page breaks down raw score for each essay, but doesn't provide a scale or range. Same page has MBE raws at the bottom, but it just all says 0% now because NCBE doesn't release it anymore.

The reason they don't release the raw "anymore" is because the July 2014 was wayyyyyyyy too hard and they are too embarassed to admit they had to give a huge bump.

Oh wonderful early September freakout just what I needed

[Albatross]

Friend who took Oklahoma said the list is going to be released tomorrow at 1:00PM. Presumably 1:00PM in whatever time zone Oklahoma is in.

[alicrimson]

Yeah...that concerns me. Do you mind sharing where you got that info?

Also, there was an increase in NC this year of those attended school in NC: In all, 74.97% of total first-time test takers from North Carolina law schools passed the examination, a 3.43% increase from July 2013.

All the stats I provided were in the letter WI sent. Basically letter says:

Dear XX, I am happy to inform you that you have passed the July 2014 Wisconsin Bar Examination.... bs about completing my file ... more bs about who to email and contact for swearing in ceremony .... "The overall pass rate was 75%. The average score was 139 on each portion of the examination."

And it has essay score and mbe score at the top of all that.

Separate page breaks down raw score for each essay, but doesn't provide a scale or range. Same page has MBE raws at the bottom, but it just all says 0% now because NCBE doesn't release it anymore.

The reason they don't release the raw "anymore" is because the July 2014 was wayyyyyyyy too hard and they are too embarassed to admit they had to give a huge bump.

Oh wonderful early September freakout just what I needed

Agreed. Idk if that's the exact reason why. It felt tough (definitely felt like my worst portion out of FL essay, MBE, and FL MC, but I didn't feel like it would impossible, then again, haven't gotten score yet), but would they really do that? Still, I went from forgetting I took the bar and buying a new car and shit to panicking over some hypothetical impending failure.

[Dafaq]

Waiting for the Texas bar results is an exercise in hoping that mortgage interest rates do not skyrocket before late Oct. In the past few weeks the rates have jumped from 3.5 to 3.75. Of course one could just roll the dice...

[Albatross]

Waiting for the Texas bar results is an exercise in hoping that mortgage interest rates do not skyrocket before late Oct. In the past few weeks the rates have jumped from 3.5 to 3.75. Of course one could just roll the dice...

In the same boat. My lease actually ends about a week before my state releases results. I'm honestly considering moving back home for a few months when it ends. If I fail, then at least I won't have to pay rent while giving it another shot. If I pass, then I won't be stuck in a 12 month lease.

I'm a bit less concerned about mortgage rates though. I'm looking at foreclosure properties that I could pay off fairly quickly. It wouldn't be anything to show off but I don't mind living in a shit hole for a few years. Plus my girlfriend is kind of a snob about where she lives. This plan both builds equity and would permit me to live alone for a little bit longer.

[L.M1988]

Got my WI results. Passed at 278, exactly the state average. 141 MBE. 137 Essays.

Couple of notes. Like others have said they are know longer reporting Raw MBE scores. This is simply speculation but its hard not to draw the conclusion that the scale was in the 15-20 point range and they'd like to avoid the scrutiny of a whole 10th of the MBE not counting. For those who aren't aware, 10 of the questions are experimental and don't count and form the minimum scale of 10 points on the test. To my knowledge any question where less than a certain percentage got it right (I think I remember hearing 20% somewhere), they basically count everyone as having gotten right, a scale bump.

To suggest that in addition to 10 experimentals that another 10 weren't properly designed such that most of the test taking population got them wrong has to be worrisome for the NCBE. It suggests, again speculation, that there is an overreaction to the efficacy of bar prep programs. My concern is the same as we are encountering with the SAT. In raising the difficulty to combat the efficacy of prep programs we are creating a two tiered system in which those who can afford prep pass and those who can't do not.

The real question is, is the bar making itself harder because it thinks it isn't testing what lawyers should know, or is it becoming harder because they think the pass rate is too high? The first point (and the test doesn't test what lawyers should now) is a defensible reason for making the test harder. The second is not. This is a certification test, a test of minimum competence, not an entrance exam. It is not the job of the BBE in each state to funnel how many lawyers there are, the market should do that.