2017 Results Thread - February Exam Forum

[blaze1306]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

[happyhour1122]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

You are right. Rules for dismissing the derivative claim was one of the main questions. I wonder how/what you wrote if you didn't know the rules. However, I am still surprised because even if you BSed, you should've got enough points to cover up in addition to the other questions you had general idea with. One thing I failed (this time as well...) was I failed to argue counter arguments. Its funny how important it is to argue both sides, but I always forget and fail to do it. Perhaps you should try doing that this time. I am totally with you on this. I am in the exact position. I have "general idea" of law and I think I know just enough to pass, but I don't know. If I fail again, its because it wasn't enough....

One thing I added this time was to define what the element.
For example, for K question, I wrote: in order to form a K, there must be an offer, acceptance and consideration. In my first exam, that was it for me. This time, I went further to explain what offer, acceptance and consideration meant. I guess this was a huge change on my end. We shall see.... Of course, I didn't do this on the entire essay questions..I just can't seem to remember the things that I know I have to do!!!

[eatthebarforlunch]

has any bar released sample answers to this years questions yet?

[blaze1306]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

You are right. Rules for dismissing the derivative claim was one of the main questions. I wonder how/what you wrote if you didn't know the rules. However, I am still surprised because even if you BSed, you should've got enough points to cover up in addition to the other questions you had general idea with. One thing I failed (this time as well...) was I failed to argue counter arguments. Its funny how important it is to argue both sides, but I always forget and fail to do it. Perhaps you should try doing that this time. I am totally with you on this. I am in the exact position. I have "general idea" of law and I think I know just enough to pass, but I don't know. If I fail again, its because it wasn't enough....

One thing I added this time was to define what the element.
For example, for K question, I wrote: in order to form a K, there must be an offer, acceptance and consideration. In my first exam, that was it for me. This time, I went further to explain what offer, acceptance and consideration meant. I guess this was a huge change on my end. We shall see.... Of course, I didn't do this on the entire essay questions..I just can't seem to remember the things that I know I have to do!!!

I think I did alright on the Corps. question because I knew the other rules and talked about the business judgment rule etc. ( in my opinion worth a 3?) there's no way I got a 5 because I didn't know the derivative claim rule. I wrote down something but it was a guess. IF the essays are my downfall this time it will be because, like on the family law question, I didn't even know the common law marriage rule, recognition of marriage elsewhere, bigamy... For the trust question I did what you said wrote down general rules " this is a trust, formed by intent in a valid writing..." but I didn't apply a known BLL, that was the big issue. I cant speculate until I get a score though.

[blaze1306]

has any bar released sample answers to this years questions yet?

Not for Feb. 2017 yet.

[gboston87]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

I went a different route. I used CIRAC (kinda), but wrote "The court will find that (conclusion), because (issue). Under (rule). Here (application). Therefore (conclusion)."

[wlp0001]

If anyone does not mind me asking, what were you testing at on the simulated MBE midterms?

We can use this information to better predict our scores by comparing them to others that took the test in the past, and it may help guide future anxious bar takers in limbo.

I shot a 141 on Barbri. Still waiting for NY UBE FEB 2017 results.

[happyhour1122]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

I went a different route. I used CIRAC (kinda), but wrote "The court will find that (conclusion), because (issue). Under (rule). Here (application). Therefore (conclusion)."

Same.
Question 1. ThE court is likely to find that there was xxxxxxxx. The issue is whether blah blah blah.
General law under xoxoxoox is that blah blah. Here, djdjsjsidjjjsjsjjsjsjs. Therefore, zoxoxoozzo

On my first exam however, I wrote.

The issue is whether abc (copied word by word from the question given). In xx, ________ here,____ therefor....

I wasn't pretty has the second one.

[wlp0001]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

I went a different route. I used CIRAC (kinda), but wrote "The court will find that (conclusion), because (issue). Under (rule). Here (application). Therefore (conclusion)."

Same.
Question 1. ThE court is likely to find that there was xxxxxxxx. The issue is whether blah blah blah.
General law under xoxoxoox is that blah blah. Here, djdjsjsidjjjsjsjjsjsjs. Therefore, zoxoxoozzo

On my first exam however, I wrote.

The issue is whether abc (copied word by word from the question given). In xx, ________ here,____ therefor....

I wasn't pretty has the second one.

If I knew the answer I CIRAC, if I did not know the answer I IRAC. lol

[happyhour1122]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

I went a different route. I used CIRAC (kinda), but wrote "The court will find that (conclusion), because (issue). Under (rule). Here (application). Therefore (conclusion)."

Same.
Question 1. ThE court is likely to find that there was xxxxxxxx. The issue is whether blah blah blah.
General law under xoxoxoox is that blah blah. Here, djdjsjsidjjjsjsjjsjsjs. Therefore, zoxoxoozzo

On my first exam however, I wrote.

The issue is whether abc (copied word by word from the question given). In xx, ________ here,____ therefor....

I wasn't pretty has the second one.

If I knew the answer I CIRAC, if I did not know the answer I IRAC. lol

I LMAOed. So true

[cnk1220]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

[happyhour1122]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

standing,,, written demand,,,,90 day waiting period...is the rules for deriv claim I believe. But then, if the claim is rejected by the directors, one can request the court to determine...something...i don't remember....omg...why am I freaking out all of the sudden

My note says:

Derivative Action: SH asserting corp’s right not own rights. Its for the benefit of corp. But corp is named as D.
Must have standing: Be a SH at the time of act or omission or must have become a SH through transfer.
Demand requirement: make a written deman on the cor before filing suit. Give 90 days unless (1) SH earlier been notified that corp rejected the demand or (2) irreparable harm
Will be dismissed if not corp best interest (by directors). SH bringing the suit has burden of proving majority of directors’s decision was not made in good faith.
Derivative proceeding or settlement only with approval of court
Ct may order corp to pay P reasonable expenses if it finds that action has resulted in a substantial benefit to corp."

[cnk1220]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

standing,,, written demand,,,,90 day waiting period...is the rules for deriv claim I believe. But then, if the claim is rejected by the directors, one can request the court to determine...something...i don't remember....omg...why am I freaking out all of the sudden

My note says:

Derivative Action: SH asserting corp’s right not own rights. Its for the benefit of corp. But corp is named as D.
Must have standing: Be a SH at the time of act or omission or must have become a SH through transfer.
Demand requirement: make a written deman on the cor before filing suit. Give 90 days unless (1) SH earlier been notified that corp rejected the demand or (2) irreparable harm
Will be dismissed if not corp best interest (by directors). SH bringing the suit has burden of proving majority of directors’s decision was not made in good faith.
Derivative proceeding or settlement only with approval of court
Ct may order corp to pay P reasonable expenses if it finds that action has resulted in a substantial benefit to corp."

Wait I'm confused about blaze's comment- what is a rule for dismissing a deriv claim as a SH? SH are the ones who bring deriv claims (or direct) depending on type of harm suffered?

[happyhour1122]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

standing,,, written demand,,,,90 day waiting period...is the rules for deriv claim I believe. But then, if the claim is rejected by the directors, one can request the court to determine...something...i don't remember....omg...why am I freaking out all of the sudden

My note says:

Derivative Action: SH asserting corp’s right not own rights. Its for the benefit of corp. But corp is named as D.
Must have standing: Be a SH at the time of act or omission or must have become a SH through transfer.
Demand requirement: make a written deman on the cor before filing suit. Give 90 days unless (1) SH earlier been notified that corp rejected the demand or (2) irreparable harm
Will be dismissed if not corp best interest (by directors). SH bringing the suit has burden of proving majority of directors’s decision was not made in good faith.
Derivative proceeding or settlement only with approval of court
Ct may order corp to pay P reasonable expenses if it finds that action has resulted in a substantial benefit to corp."

Wait I'm confused about blaze's comment- what is a rule for dismissing a deriv claim as a SH? SH are the ones who bring deriv claims (or direct) depending on type of harm suffered?

I'm sure you guys are talking about the same thing. The question in the exam asked about a SH bringing a deriv suit and the directors tried to dismiss it without taking reasonable steps to finding out what was going on. You guys are talking about the same thing.

[blaze1306]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

standing,,, written demand,,,,90 day waiting period...is the rules for deriv claim I believe. But then, if the claim is rejected by the directors, one can request the court to determine...something...i don't remember....omg...why am I freaking out all of the sudden

My note says:

Derivative Action: SH asserting corp’s right not own rights. Its for the benefit of corp. But corp is named as D.
Must have standing: Be a SH at the time of act or omission or must have become a SH through transfer.
Demand requirement: make a written deman on the cor before filing suit. Give 90 days unless (1) SH earlier been notified that corp rejected the demand or (2) irreparable harm
Will be dismissed if not corp best interest (by directors). SH bringing the suit has burden of proving majority of directors’s decision was not made in good faith.
Derivative proceeding or settlement only with approval of court
Ct may order corp to pay P reasonable expenses if it finds that action has resulted in a substantial benefit to corp."

Wait I'm confused about blaze's comment- what is a rule for dismissing a deriv claim as a SH? SH are the ones who bring deriv claims (or direct) depending on type of harm suffered?

I'm sure you guys are talking about the same thing. The question in the exam asked about a SH bringing a deriv suit and the directors tried to dismiss it without taking reasonable steps to finding out what was going on. You guys are talking about the same thing.

Your absolutely right we are talking about the same thing. I didn't explain/ describe it properly which is probably why I failed.

[cnk1220]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

Rule for dismissing deriv claim- what was that? I remember something about inspecting records and a SH bringing a deriv claim which involves the written demand, standing, and 90 day waiting period unless futile? Was there another rule?

standing,,, written demand,,,,90 day waiting period...is the rules for deriv claim I believe. But then, if the claim is rejected by the directors, one can request the court to determine...something...i don't remember....omg...why am I freaking out all of the sudden

My note says:

Derivative Action: SH asserting corp’s right not own rights. Its for the benefit of corp. But corp is named as D.
Must have standing: Be a SH at the time of act or omission or must have become a SH through transfer.
Demand requirement: make a written deman on the cor before filing suit. Give 90 days unless (1) SH earlier been notified that corp rejected the demand or (2) irreparable harm
Will be dismissed if not corp best interest (by directors). SH bringing the suit has burden of proving majority of directors’s decision was not made in good faith.
Derivative proceeding or settlement only with approval of court
Ct may order corp to pay P reasonable expenses if it finds that action has resulted in a substantial benefit to corp."

Wait I'm confused about blaze's comment- what is a rule for dismissing a deriv claim as a SH? SH are the ones who bring deriv claims (or direct) depending on type of harm suffered?

I'm sure you guys are talking about the same thing. The question in the exam asked about a SH bringing a deriv suit and the directors tried to dismiss it without taking reasonable steps to finding out what was going on. You guys are talking about the same thing.

Your absolutely right we are talking about the same thing. I didn't explain/ describe it properly which is probably why I failed.

Keep your chin up blaze, you will get em next time!

[blaze1306]

I'm sorry I hijacked the thread it should get back to Feb. results. I will post when scores come out.

[happyhour1122]

I'm sorry I hijacked the thread it should get back to Feb. results. I will post when scores come out.

looking forward to it. It would really help us all

[TheJuryMustDie]

I'm not in the best position to say anything as I am also waiting on my results and failed the first time, but perhaps its not the content of the essay?
Are you using IRAC? or CIRAC? or does it look like you finished the essay? Are you "only" answering the given question? (Sometimes you have a couple of issues under the main question), I've heard sometimes graders don't even read the essays properly.

I used CIRAC this time. I failed big time using IRAC last time. Maybe it wasn't the content. It will be funny and I will surely believe it was my organization that will pass my essay if I pass this time because I spent some more time in trying to "look neat" and organized. I probably wrote more "laws" in my first exam essay

I am using IRAC, I may have actually put down in a few places, " The issue here is..." and " the rule is". My mentors really stressed that. I am only answering the question given. I know I went a little fast. Read the question take a position (right or wrong)and go. I didn't have much time to really evaluate and analyze, maybe I need to work on that aspect for this exam. I don't think I know enough BLL to be effective trying to apply a rule I don't know forwards and backwards. But then again you cant know everything about the BLL. I think I need to memorize more rules and common nuances (damn I use that word a lot) to hopefully be confident in most subjects that come up.

But how? For example from this exam, the Corps question, I knew about the business judgment rule, duty of loyalty and care as well as fiduciary responsibility. I didn't know the rule for dismissing the derivative claim as a share holder which was a main issue. I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to say " oh I'm glad this is on the test I can crush this".

I think I just realized knowing general elements is not the same as knowing enough to write a specific essay in 20 minutes on a very narrow aspect of a fact pattern.

You are right. Rules for dismissing the derivative claim was one of the main questions. I wonder how/what you wrote if you didn't know the rules. However, I am still surprised because even if you BSed, you should've got enough points to cover up in addition to the other questions you had general idea with. One thing I failed (this time as well...) was I failed to argue counter arguments. Its funny how important it is to argue both sides, but I always forget and fail to do it. Perhaps you should try doing that this time. I am totally with you on this. I am in the exact position. I have "general idea" of law and I think I know just enough to pass, but I don't know. If I fail again, its because it wasn't enough....

One thing I added this time was to define what the element.
For example, for K question, I wrote: in order to form a K, there must be an offer, acceptance and consideration. In my first exam, that was it for me. This time, I went further to explain what offer, acceptance and consideration meant. I guess this was a huge change on my end. We shall see.... Of course, I didn't do this on the entire essay questions..I just can't seem to remember the things that I know I have to do!!!

I think I did alright on the Corps. question because I knew the other rules and talked about the business judgment rule etc. ( in my opinion worth a 3?) there's no way I got a 5 because I didn't know the derivative claim rule. I wrote down something but it was a guess. IF the essays are my downfall this time it will be because, like on the family law question, I didn't even know the common law marriage rule, recognition of marriage elsewhere, bigamy... For the trust question I did what you said wrote down general rules " this is a trust, formed by intent in a valid writing..." but I didn't apply a known BLL, that was the big issue. I cant speculate until I get a score though.

I actually thought the trust failed because the Settlor could not be the sole beneficiary of the trust as it was the case in that question? The Charity and the children were only meant to share the corpus of the trust and would in no other way benefit from the trust. So I thought that invalidated the trust. Ha! The agony!

[GamecockEsq]

For those of us still "patiently" waiting for our results and needing some kind of distraction... (please note: patiently in this context means the act of obsessively checking state bar webpage, reading every blog on the Internet that merely mentions a bar exam pass rate/result/release date, forgetting that life outside of obsessively checking for results exists)... does anyone ever read the blogs on "all4jds" website? It is honestly incredible how nasty some of those people are. I suppose the "animosity" that the site has by not requiring one to create an account gives a**holes the feeling that they are entitled to talk down to everyone.

For a great example, check out this post -- http://all4jds.com/forums/aft/25596

It's the NC Results post and the comments in the thread are just plain nasty - to the point that I felt compelled to speak up and it's not even my state!! (Obviously a South Carolinian due to my previous posts about SC and my username.. shout out to USC women's basketball, National Champs, whoop whoop!)

Now, contrast with this blog.. where people are helpful and encouraging and uplifting.. it's totally night and day. Honestly, I may just be starting to suffer from some serious bar-related rage/depression/you name it (third time taker here, God help me I better have passed this time around) but seriously this profession is hard and nasty enough and the process of taking the bar is terrible on us all. The first time I took the bar, I missed by two points. The second time, I missed by one.. ONE POINT - for the record, I saw red more than I had ever seen in my life when I opened that letter, then followed up with a bottle of tequila. If I didn't have my support system and people that (1) knew I was smart and believed in me, and (2) helped me keep believing in myself when all I wanted to do is crawl in a hole and cry until I died, I would have never been able to make it thus far. THOSE sad excuses for people in the all4jds blog are precisely the types of people who kill ambition and keep pulling people down. Why on earth people feel the need to be so hateful (notice the constant "kill yourself" statements in the blog) is so beyond me. I so very much wish that the website could somehow report those individuals to their state's character and fitness board, because God knows we don't need attorneys in the field with that kind of mentality.

So, to end my rant here.. hats off and pats on the back to all of you for being kind and decent human beings.

[happyhour1122]

For those of us still "patiently" waiting for our results and needing some kind of distraction... (please note: patiently in this context means the act of obsessively checking state bar webpage, reading every blog on the Internet that merely mentions a bar exam pass rate/result/release date, forgetting that life outside of obsessively checking for results exists)... does anyone ever read the blogs on "all4jds" website? It is honestly incredible how nasty some of those people are. I suppose the "animosity" that the site has by not requiring one to create an account gives a**holes the feeling that they are entitled to talk down to everyone.

For a great example, check out this post -- http://all4jds.com/forums/aft/25596

It's the NC Results post and the comments in the thread are just plain nasty - to the point that I felt compelled to speak up and it's not even my state!! (Obviously a South Carolinian due to my previous posts about SC and my username.. shout out to USC women's basketball, National Champs, whoop whoop!)

Now, contrast with this blog.. where people are helpful and encouraging and uplifting.. it's totally night and day. Honestly, I may just be starting to suffer from some serious bar-related rage/depression/you name it (third time taker here, God help me I better have passed this time around) but seriously this profession is hard and nasty enough and the process of taking the bar is terrible on us all. The first time I took the bar, I missed by two points. The second time, I missed by one.. ONE POINT - for the record, I saw red more than I had ever seen in my life when I opened that letter, then followed up with a bottle of tequila. If I didn't have my support system and people that (1) knew I was smart and believed in me, and (2) helped me keep believing in myself when all I wanted to do is crawl in a hole and cry until I died, I would have never been able to make it thus far. THOSE sad excuses for people in the all4jds blog are precisely the types of people who kill ambition and keep pulling people down. Why on earth people feel the need to be so hateful (notice the constant "kill yourself" statements in the blog) is so beyond me. I so very much wish that the website could somehow report those individuals to their state's character and fitness board, because God knows we don't need attorneys in the field with that kind of mentality.

So, to end my rant here.. hats off and pats on the back to all of you for being kind and decent human beings.

2 points...then 1 point...I can't imagine the shock. I was getting goosebumps as I read your post.
This time its definitely going to be a "pass". Did you do anything different from one to two? or two to three?

[YalteseFalcon]

For those of us still "patiently" waiting for our results and needing some kind of distraction... (please note: patiently in this context means the act of obsessively checking state bar webpage, reading every blog on the Internet that merely mentions a bar exam pass rate/result/release date, forgetting that life outside of obsessively checking for results exists)... does anyone ever read the blogs on "all4jds" website? It is honestly incredible how nasty some of those people are. I suppose the "animosity" that the site has by not requiring one to create an account gives a**holes the feeling that they are entitled to talk down to everyone.

For a great example, check out this post -- http://all4jds.com/forums/aft/25596

It's the NC Results post and the comments in the thread are just plain nasty - to the point that I felt compelled to speak up and it's not even my state!! (Obviously a South Carolinian due to my previous posts about SC and my username.. shout out to USC women's basketball, National Champs, whoop whoop!)

Now, contrast with this blog.. where people are helpful and encouraging and uplifting.. it's totally night and day. Honestly, I may just be starting to suffer from some serious bar-related rage/depression/you name it (third time taker here, God help me I better have passed this time around) but seriously this profession is hard and nasty enough and the process of taking the bar is terrible on us all. The first time I took the bar, I missed by two points. The second time, I missed by one.. ONE POINT - for the record, I saw red more than I had ever seen in my life when I opened that letter, then followed up with a bottle of tequila. If I didn't have my support system and people that (1) knew I was smart and believed in me, and (2) helped me keep believing in myself when all I wanted to do is crawl in a hole and cry until I died, I would have never been able to make it thus far. THOSE sad excuses for people in the all4jds blog are precisely the types of people who kill ambition and keep pulling people down. Why on earth people feel the need to be so hateful (notice the constant "kill yourself" statements in the blog) is so beyond me. I so very much wish that the website could somehow report those individuals to their state's character and fitness board, because God knows we don't need attorneys in the field with that kind of mentality.

So, to end my rant here.. hats off and pats on the back to all of you for being kind and decent human beings.

This is the exact type of thing I meant in a previous post. The arrogance, hostility, and demeaning character of some people who post in law student forums is really disgusting and reflects very poorly on the legal profession. What a turn off to think that people would speak to their peers and colleagues that way.

This is the exact reason I avoided law school forums (including TLS) DURING law school. I didn't need to be demeaned because I didn't attend HYS, or have my school characterized as TTT.

It's simply not healthy and feeds into the negative reputation already burdening the legal profession.

In any event, I'm happy to find humility in this forum.

[GamecockEsq]

For those of us still "patiently" waiting for our results and needing some kind of distraction... (please note: patiently in this context means the act of obsessively checking state bar webpage, reading every blog on the Internet that merely mentions a bar exam pass rate/result/release date, forgetting that life outside of obsessively checking for results exists)... does anyone ever read the blogs on "all4jds" website? It is honestly incredible how nasty some of those people are. I suppose the "animosity" that the site has by not requiring one to create an account gives a**holes the feeling that they are entitled to talk down to everyone.

For a great example, check out this post -- http://all4jds.com/forums/aft/25596

It's the NC Results post and the comments in the thread are just plain nasty - to the point that I felt compelled to speak up and it's not even my state!! (Obviously a South Carolinian due to my previous posts about SC and my username.. shout out to USC women's basketball, National Champs, whoop whoop!)

Now, contrast with this blog.. where people are helpful and encouraging and uplifting.. it's totally night and day. Honestly, I may just be starting to suffer from some serious bar-related rage/depression/you name it (third time taker here, God help me I better have passed this time around) but seriously this profession is hard and nasty enough and the process of taking the bar is terrible on us all. The first time I took the bar, I missed by two points. The second time, I missed by one.. ONE POINT - for the record, I saw red more than I had ever seen in my life when I opened that letter, then followed up with a bottle of tequila. If I didn't have my support system and people that (1) knew I was smart and believed in me, and (2) helped me keep believing in myself when all I wanted to do is crawl in a hole and cry until I died, I would have never been able to make it thus far. THOSE sad excuses for people in the all4jds blog are precisely the types of people who kill ambition and keep pulling people down. Why on earth people feel the need to be so hateful (notice the constant "kill yourself" statements in the blog) is so beyond me. I so very much wish that the website could somehow report those individuals to their state's character and fitness board, because God knows we don't need attorneys in the field with that kind of mentality.

So, to end my rant here.. hats off and pats on the back to all of you for being kind and decent human beings.

2 points...then 1 point...I can't imagine the shock. I was getting goosebumps as I read your post.
This time its definitely going to be a "pass". Did you do anything different from one to two? or two to three?

Oh, it was definitely a shock.. followed by a sucker punch in the gut and a very dark emotional/psychological cloud. Honestly, the best AND the worst part was the support from my family and my fiance. The optimism ("you'll definitely pass next time, look how close you were") was excruciating and most of the time infuriating. What seriously helped me was the hard "get your ass up, put your big girl panties on, and make this exam your b..." attitude from my bar prep professor - and now dear friend - from law school.

My problem with the exam is I have some serious ADHD - not the hyper, can't sit still kind but the racing thoughts/inability to concentrate/etc. kind, but that's really neither here nor there.. I've been treated and working with it for years and years so it's not a problem. BUT how I prepared for the bar WITH my disability was a problem. Together with my professor, we figured out a game plan on how I most effectively learn (ie. Kaplan and Barbri did NOT work), pinpointed where I was messing up, and worked on those issues.

The last two times, I did a fair amount of MBE questions, but I didn't take the time to truly understand the questions. When they ask this type of question, what are they really looking for in the answer? What was the purpose of throwing in that random fact - to distract me or because it's the whole turntable of the answer? Before, I just did question after question after question. For some people, I guess that works. Me - no. For every MBE question I did, I went through every answer - right and wrong - to totally understand. When I read through the questions, I was actively reading - meaning I would write to the side as I was reading the type of question (con law - equal protection - so now I'm on alert to look for a suspect class) and I would circle or underline things as I went through. Those two things together helped me stop going towards the red herrings and the answer choices that would be right if one more little fact was not missing.

I did A LOT of essays, but not the same way I did before. I realized it was not helpful for me to just blindly write essay after essay without figuring out WHY I got x, y, or z wrong or WHERE I was missing points. So, I did a handful of essays per subject and made a "essay process" chart, if you will, for each type of question. My way of thinking and memorizing is very linear. You give me a "step 1, step 2, step 3" approach and I am golden. I memorized the "formula" for a specific type of essay.. ie. contracts essay - first hurdle (or heading) contract formation - RAC - second hurdle (or heading) statute of frauds - RAC - third hurdle (or heading) contract modification - RAC.. you get the picture. A LOT of the essays are repetitive.. they can only change up the types of issues so much.. so my professor and I created many little "master" essay outlines, so when I got to a specific essay, I knew (at least for some parts of an essay) I had a game plan and all I had to do was plug and play with the facts given to me.

I also stopped trying to "learn" the material, and rather practiced how to apply it in a way that was necessary for the bar. The first two times, I spit out rule after rule - I knew them all and I had damn good rule statements - but I had mediocre at best application sections. So, when I practiced essays, I didn't spend time writing out in full length every essay, but I spent time going through the application. Every rule essentially can be broken down in a 1,2,3 element type of style.. so I organized my application in just that way. Find a fact that applies and satisfies every element of the rule before moving on to the conclusion. I also had headings out the wahzoo (which I was complimented on by several Kaplan essay graders so props to my bar professor). The model answers given by big box companies and even the NCBE are terrible. Students don't, and can't in that time frame, write like that. BUT you can write a detailed answer if you have pre-decided headings there and you know something has to go under it (refer back to my contract formation/statute of frauds/modification/etc example). For one, it helped me stay on track and not forget something when my blood pressure and anxiety was through the roof, but also it helps the graders see that you have each piece there and even if its not "right" you made a good, organized argument (ps: if you read through the NCBE model answers almost all of them have alternative routes for correct answers) and possibly pick up some points. To the grader, headings help them go through their checklist on the grade sheet, whereas if its a big massive essay they could easily miss something you wrote or just not understand what you meant and gloss over it.

My moral to the story - this time around I learned how to play PacMan Bar Edition. The bar is just like the little yellow pacman trying to gobble up as many points as necessary to reach the end. If you try to eat all of them, you're probably going to run into something that kills you. Learn *your* strategy and methodology - take a step back and look at why you miss this or that and why you always get this or that right. For me, doing 5479057097515 MBE questions and essays was NOT the right answer. I actually learned so much this time around about how to study effectively (especially with ADHD) that I'm now mentoring for the current bar prep takers. Fingers crossed that I actually pass this time around, so my credibility doesn't go right down the toilet..

[snapura]

Bunch of turds on this thread acting cocky after getting their results. Pretty damn obnoxious.

Sorry to those that didn't pass this time around. I'll say this, I was a below-average law student and passed two exams basically doing the same things. Maybe it'll help someone.

1. I disregarded the study schedule when I had to. (Barbri) They had their 4 hour lecture in the morning, then said to "review the lecture notes," and then packed on 3 hours of additional diagnostic work. I was never able to spend enough time actually learning and digesting the material when I followed their schedule. 3-4 hours looking at 40+ pages of lecture notes was never enough time for me to actually learn it, and I never would have had enough time to learn and memorize much material in the 3 weeks leading up to the test--which seems to be their strategy. I came back the following weekend and tried to catch up on as much of the diagnostic work as I could. You're screwed on the bar if you don't know the law, regardless of how much diagnostic BS you do.

2. I made a butt-load of notecards. Rather than just scanning the lecture handout, I went through it and made notecards for basically everything. I was able to memorize a large amount of information in a single day by doing that. I honestly just needed to review my lecture handouts the last couple of weeks leading up to the test because I had already memorized a large portion of the information. It would have been impossible for me to learn a substantial amount of information in the final 2-3 weeks before the exam. The schedule during that period was something like, "Spend 1/2 day reviewing torts (100 page outline), Spend 1/2 day reviewing Corporate Law (60 page outline)." What the hell are you supposed to do in a half day with a 100 page outline?

3. I did probably 80-90% of the practice essays and MBE questions that Barbri provided. Basically that's all I did on the weekends unless I needed extra time to study a particular subject. The essays on the second bar exam I took looked almost identical to some of the practice essays I had done. One of the MPTs on this exam was almost literally copied verbatim. EXHAUST as much of the practice essays and MBE questions as possible. You'll learn the law and you'll figure out the bar examiners' tricky bullshit.

4. I studied 7 days a week. I sucked in law school, and the vast majority of people going into bar prep likely knew more than me. I learned almost literally nothing in law school, and retained even less. I ended up doing about 85-90% of Barbri's assignments, and felt adequately prepared. That's not for everyone, but I wasn't going to fail this damn thing because some other schmuck outworked me.

[deceptivelyblonde]

Today (April 7) the following states should release their results (I'm a law & Business professor in Asia right now, so I run a day early if it isn't Apr. 7 in your area yet sorry!!). If you want the links and don't have them yet, you can find them at https://deceptivelyblonde.com/bar-exam-results/.

1. Kentucky
2. Oklahoma
3. Pennsylvania
4. Tennessee (Already Released)

Maybe more, but those are the ones who announced this date.


That's a lot for one day, good luck everyone!! I'll be crossing my fingers for you!!