Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Easy-E]

So I wasn't able to get to the graded torts essay yesterday (not sure when it was originally on the schedule) and instead of just pushing it today, it's kicked it down to next Wednesday. Seems weird? I wonder how it decides where to move things when you go off schedule (slack off).

Weird. Graded essay #2 was real property for me

Yeah same here

Was property before torts for you guys?


Also, how many people are actually making their own shorter outlines? I'm wondering if it's actually worth it, considering they also provide those short FROs.

Yes, property was before torts for me.

I'm making my own short outlines. What are FROs?

Oh weird, mine went Ks->torts->property, NY for what it's worth.

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

[bsktbll28082]

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

I received the FROs in an email for the VA distinctions, but not the main MBE topics.

[luxxe]

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

I received the FROs in an email for the VA distinctions, but not the main MBE topics.

FROs for the main MBE topics are in the multistate practice exams book, and I was also messaged full PDFs like a week ago. I'm not making my own smaller outlines.

[Nebby]

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

I received the FROs in an email for the VA distinctions, but not the main MBE topics.

FROs for the main MBE topics are in the multistate practice exams book, and I was also messaged full PDFs like a week ago. I'm not making my own smaller outlines.

Yeah I'm not making my own outlines either. Never did in LS so figured I shouldn't try something new this time around

[FSK]

Civ Pro lecturer is excellent. But lol at doing all 9 assignments it gave me on a saturday, which include all 14 civ pro lectures, 60 mbeqps, and two written pracite exams.

[kay2016]

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

I received the FROs in an email for the VA distinctions, but not the main MBE topics.

FROs for the main MBE topics are in the multistate practice exams book, and I was also messaged full PDFs like a week ago. I'm not making my own smaller outlines.

Yeah I'm not making my own outlines either. Never did in LS so figured I shouldn't try something new this time around

[Easy-E]

Final Review Outlines. I honestly don't know whether they are in one of these books or available online. I thought someone said they were sent an e-mail giving them access. From what I understand, they are basically concise, attack outlines for final review.

I received the FROs in an email for the VA distinctions, but not the main MBE topics.

FROs for the main MBE topics are in the multistate practice exams book, and I was also messaged full PDFs like a week ago. I'm not making my own smaller outlines.

Yeah I'm not making my own outlines either. Never did in LS so figured I shouldn't try something new this time around

I see the FROs now thanks luxxe

I did outlines for about half my classes, for the other half I either did flashcards (rarely) or worked off old outlines. I didn't do notably better on subjects where I did, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.

[Vantwins]

Also, how many people are actually making their own shorter outlines? I'm wondering if it's actually worth it, considering they also provide those short FROs.[/quote]

I am only because it helps me study to pick out the BLL and type it.

[Mayakovsky]

Also, how many people are actually making their own shorter outlines? I'm wondering if it's actually worth it, considering they also provide those short FROs.

I'm torn on this as well. Wondering what others are doing.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Also, how many people are actually making their own shorter outlines? I'm wondering if it's actually worth it, considering they also provide those short FROs.

I'm torn on this as well. Wondering what others are doing.

I suppose you should do whatever works for you, but with so much material to cover, making your own outlines seems like it would be overkill.

[not guilty]

I understand the Bar Exam is not designed for people off the street with common sense to pass. It's designed to be failed by people who do not know the rules. Below is what I would deem a suitable Bar Exam question. Not some bullshit fact pattern with intentionally misleading answer choices and only 90 seconds to decide. You may argue, the Bar wants to see if you can apply it. Well then make the questions straight forward and you either know the rule or you don't.

An offer for a bilateral contract can be accepted by:

A Full performance only
B Beginning performance only
C A promise to perform only
D A promise to perform or the beginning of performance


***sorry, just my daily rant.

[Easy-E]

I understand the Bar Exam is not designed for people off the street with common sense to pass. It's designed to be failed by people who do not know the rules. Below is what I would deem a suitable Bar Exam question. Not some bullshit fact pattern with intentionally misleading answer choices and only 90 seconds to decide. You may argue, the Bar wants to see if you can apply it. Well then make the questions straight forward and you either know the rule or you don't.

An offer for a bilateral contract can be accepted by:

A Full performance only
B Beginning performance only
C A promise to perform only
D A promise to perform or the beginning of performance


***sorry, just my daily rant.

Totally not saying the bar exam is perfect or anything, but they want to test your knowledge beyond memorization. I could memorize a bunch of scientific definitions, doesn't mean I know shit about them. I could go teach anyone the definition of a bilateral contract, but that doesn't mean they could identify it from a set of facts. Practicing law isn't just recognizing terms. I also recognize that passing that bar =/= being able to practice law, at least competently.

inb4 Dunning-Kruger effect

[not guilty]

Totally not saying the bar exam is perfect or anything, but they want to test your knowledge beyond memorization. I could memorize a bunch of scientific definitions, doesn't mean I know shit about them. I could go teach anyone the definition of a bilateral contract, but that doesn't mean they could identify it from a set of facts. Practicing law isn't just recognizing terms. I also recognize that passing that bar =/= being able to practice law, at least competently.

inb4 Dunning-Kruger effect

Yeah, you're right. I just think if you know the rule above and apply it to a straight forward fact pattern then you have now earned minimum competency of the law. Let's keep in mind there are hundreds of rules to know and it takes a Doctorates to get here. I could see making a really hard test if there was nothing precluding you from sitting for it.

My bitching is stemming from going 4/10 in Civ Pro which is my specialty, due to working in civil litigation for 6 years now as a paralegal. 4/10 means I failed. You mean to tell me that I am not at a minimum competency level yet in civil procedure? gtfo.

[Easy-E]

Totally not saying the bar exam is perfect or anything, but they want to test your knowledge beyond memorization. I could memorize a bunch of scientific definitions, doesn't mean I know shit about them. I could go teach anyone the definition of a bilateral contract, but that doesn't mean they could identify it from a set of facts. Practicing law isn't just recognizing terms. I also recognize that passing that bar =/= being able to practice law, at least competently.

inb4 Dunning-Kruger effect

Yeah, you're right. I just think if you know the rule above and apply it to a straight forward fact pattern then you have now earned minimum competency of the law. Let's keep in mind there are hundreds of rules to know and it takes a Doctorates to get here. I could see making a really hard test if there was nothing precluding you from sitting for it.

My bitching is stemming from going 4/10 in Civ Pro which is my specialty, due to working in civil litigation for 6 years now as a paralegal. 4/10 means I failed. You mean to tell me that I am not at a minimum competency level yet in civil procedure? gtfo.

Like I said, I don't think the test is perfect. Re-cramming all of our 1L classes in two months to presumably immediately forget seems idiotic. Hell, every attorney I've worked for looks up every FRCP before they move anyway. I think everyone knows you learn the law best by actually practicing it. I don't know how to make that a test though.

[Easy-E]

I'm getting so annoyed at the PQs all hitting on some little exception/twist that the lecture conveniently left out. I get that they can't cover everything (apparently), but fuck you. Killing my confidence.

And also fuck those "yeah you're totally right but this one is better so sit on it" explanations

[bsktbll28082]

I'm getting so annoyed at the PQs all hitting on some little exception/twist that the lecture conveniently left out. I get that they can't cover everything (apparently), but fuck you. Killing my confidence.

And also fuck those "yeah you're totally right but this one is better so sit on it" explanations

Yep, this keeps happening to me.

Also, feeling really behind today. Themis says I only did 0.6%. I've put in like 6 hrs. The outline take time to type, but I really notice a difference when I have them.

[bigbossman]

My bitching is stemming from going 4/10 in Civ Pro which is my specialty, due to working in civil litigation for 6 years now as a paralegal. 4/10 means I failed. You mean to tell me that I am not at a minimum competency level yet in civil procedure? gtfo.

Word? I did pretty well on my first Civ Pro practice exam, and I've never done any work in civil law in my life. It seems like a lot of their civ pro questions can be solved by using a "what sounds right" kind of approach.

Has anyone actually read their long outline for civ pro? 90 pages? You kiddin' me?

[ultimolugar]

Just blew it big time on 3 34-question quizzes. 55, 45, 41, respectively.

[PotLuck]

Just blew it big time on 3 34-question quizzes. 55, 45, 41, respectively.

No worries man, just learn the rules for the answers you got wrong and keep grinding. There is plenty of time between now and the bar to get it up!

[Rahviveh]

Totally not saying the bar exam is perfect or anything, but they want to test your knowledge beyond memorization. I could memorize a bunch of scientific definitions, doesn't mean I know shit about them. I could go teach anyone the definition of a bilateral contract, but that doesn't mean they could identify it from a set of facts. Practicing law isn't just recognizing terms. I also recognize that passing that bar =/= being able to practice law, at least competently.

inb4 Dunning-Kruger effect

Yeah, you're right. I just think if you know the rule above and apply it to a straight forward fact pattern then you have now earned minimum competency of the law. Let's keep in mind there are hundreds of rules to know and it takes a Doctorates to get here. I could see making a really hard test if there was nothing precluding you from sitting for it.

My bitching is stemming from going 4/10 in Civ Pro which is my specialty, due to working in civil litigation for 6 years now as a paralegal. 4/10 means I failed. You mean to tell me that I am not at a minimum competency level yet in civil procedure? gtfo.

LOL. So being a paralegal means you're competent incivpro now? Get over yourself.

[ultimolugar]

Just blew it big time on 3 34-question quizzes. 55, 45, 41, respectively.

No worries man, just learn the rules for the answers you got wrong and keep grinding. There is plenty of time between now and the bar to get it up!

Thanks buddy! I just did a FL Civ Pro, got a 65. I just gotta be grateful that I'm fucking up on practice and not actuals. I appreciate the support, really I do! Hope all is going well on your end.

[FSK]

Has anyone figured out how to make lectures faster than 2x?

[luxxe]

Has anyone figured out how to make lectures faster than 2x?

Had the same problem. I don't think the browser player will let you, but If you download them (right click -> inspect -> open the mp4 file in a new tab -> save video as) and play them with VLC/whatever you can listen faster. Sounds like a lot, but you can just edit mp4 file url to get to multiple lectures quickly and it saves me a lot of time overall - a lot of these lectures, even on 2x, I zone out. 2.5-2.7x I have to stay engaged and get through them more quickly - bonus for working places with unreliable wifi!

[Tyler_Durden]

Has anyone figured out how to make lectures faster than 2x?

Try video speed controller chrome extension

[Lemming]

Took me a while and had to get help from a friend who's a linux sysadmin, but I was able to pull the video files off the app (I only have an iphone and ipad, so no speeding them up) so I can watch them on my computer without wifi. Will really help for the 6 hour plane ride I have coming up.