February 2016 California Bar Exam Forum

[healthnut]

Exactly--you're creating a base so you have some written substance down when you get to the facts. I think most would be absolutely lost without such notes, but I do know some people rely on highlighting/note taking in the booklets. Again, to me, this is wasted time because you have to then find what is relevant, transcribe all of your notes to the computer, flip back and forth between pages, and the list goes on. . . At the end of this, you STILL have to organize!! It's not efficient. Bottom line: it's disorganized and @ the bar, you have no time for disorganization. Plus, lack of organization creates huge anxiety and as I have said before, the bar comes down to ATTITUDE.

From your response to an "outline," I think you may be getting us confused. I use the word "outline" loosely. By no means am I creating an outline. I'm simply jotting down law into the computer as I read it with a the first word of the case/statute. I am then able to organize my memo/motion by copying/pasting those notes. I say outline because you may get to the point where you just write around those points of law with your facts. The key is to use your outline/notes/(whatever you call them) simultaneously to answer the prompt.

As far as organization, you likely will be highly led to the type of organization the answer asks for. More likely than not, if you are responding, you're going to structure it EXACTLY like the motion you're responding to. If it's a memo, structure it EXACTLY like the memo you're answering. If it's a letter to a client, make it a formal letter. This is VERY important and should be the easiest. The key is to review as many PT answers out there as you can. This doesn't take much time (maybe three minutes max per PT). Look at the instructions, look at the answer and skim stuff in between. Again, goal is for them to look at it and PASS. If your answer is structured wrong (say you wrote a memo instead of a court motion), it is the first reflection of your answer--and not a good one.

Don't skimp on your study of PTs. They suck but they can make or break your grade.

Excellent points. So do you read the library first or file? My reading comprehension isn't very good and I didn't get your point.

Also I am one of those idiots who literally wrote a memo instead of a court motion for PT-A in July 2015. Remember that asbestos one? Yeah I wrote a memo to the supervising attorney. This was the one single reason why I did not pass.

I personally read the library first and then the file.

[fadedsunrise]

Exactly--you're creating a base so you have some written substance down when you get to the facts. I think most would be absolutely lost without such notes, but I do know some people rely on highlighting/note taking in the booklets. Again, to me, this is wasted time because you have to then find what is relevant, transcribe all of your notes to the computer, flip back and forth between pages, and the list goes on. . . At the end of this, you STILL have to organize!! It's not efficient. Bottom line: it's disorganized and @ the bar, you have no time for disorganization. Plus, lack of organization creates huge anxiety and as I have said before, the bar comes down to ATTITUDE.

From your response to an "outline," I think you may be getting us confused. I use the word "outline" loosely. By no means am I creating an outline. I'm simply jotting down law into the computer as I read it with a the first word of the case/statute. I am then able to organize my memo/motion by copying/pasting those notes. I say outline because you may get to the point where you just write around those points of law with your facts. The key is to use your outline/notes/(whatever you call them) simultaneously to answer the prompt.

As far as organization, you likely will be highly led to the type of organization the answer asks for. More likely than not, if you are responding, you're going to structure it EXACTLY like the motion you're responding to. If it's a memo, structure it EXACTLY like the memo you're answering. If it's a letter to a client, make it a formal letter. This is VERY important and should be the easiest. The key is to review as many PT answers out there as you can. This doesn't take much time (maybe three minutes max per PT). Look at the instructions, look at the answer and skim stuff in between. Again, goal is for them to look at it and PASS. If your answer is structured wrong (say you wrote a memo instead of a court motion), it is the first reflection of your answer--and not a good one.

Don't skimp on your study of PTs. They suck but they can make or break your grade.

Excellent points. So do you read the library first or file? My reading comprehension isn't very good and I didn't get your point.

Also I am one of those idiots who literally wrote a memo instead of a court motion for PT-A in July 2015. Remember that asbestos one? Yeah I wrote a memo to the supervising attorney. This was the one single reason why I did not pass.

I personally read the library first and then the file.

I've done it both ways and not noticed a huge difference in how long it takes me to finish. I think either way the idea is probably to not get lost in the details before you get through both and are able to plan out how to fit them together. If I read the file first on a problem I'll set out the relevant facts that I think would go into answering the problem then find the rules, or vice versa if I read the library first.

For July 2015 I read the file first on both problems. Got a 65 on the first and a 60 on the second because, if I remember correctly, I was definitely getting lost in the details and not grasping the structure. This time around I'm trying out more of the reading library first technique.

[Raiden]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

I could not finish a PT without doing this method. For one it forces you to put down a rule based skeleton outline then you just modify as you read the file. But what is important is you methodically put something down on paper instead of wasting time figuring out wtf is happening in the file. PT-A was just hard. I did not understand the story of what happened with asbestos.

I never thought about typing up the law while coming across it in the library, but it makes sense, you can't be losing that much time even if you have to delete, and I am sure you can use that law for some relevant introduction or further explanation. It becomes way easier to know where to put that law if you have an outline before you tackle the library, but that isn't always possible.

Also, my understanding is that there are really two ways to create an outline: (1) the instructions give you an outline by telling you to respond to an opposition (just respond to the opposition points) or (2) by creating an outline from the rules and subrules that are hopefully just in one case (possibly from more than one case.) Any other ideas on what we base our outlines on?

Exactly--you're creating a base so you have some written substance down when you get to the facts. I think most would be absolutely lost without such notes, but I do know some people rely on highlighting/note taking in the booklets. Again, to me, this is wasted time because you have to then find what is relevant, transcribe all of your notes to the computer, flip back and forth between pages, and the list goes on. . . At the end of this, you STILL have to organize!! It's not efficient. Bottom line: it's disorganized and @ the bar, you have no time for disorganization. Plus, lack of organization creates huge anxiety and as I have said before, the bar comes down to ATTITUDE.

From your response to an "outline," I think you may be getting us confused. I use the word "outline" loosely. By no means am I creating an outline. I'm simply jotting down law into the computer as I read it with a the first word of the case/statute. I am then able to organize my memo/motion by copying/pasting those notes. I say outline because you may get to the point where you just write around those points of law with your facts. The key is to use your outline/notes/(whatever you call them) simultaneously to answer the prompt.

As far as organization, you likely will be highly led to the type of organization the answer asks for. More likely than not, if you are responding, you're going to structure it EXACTLY like the motion you're responding to. If it's a memo, structure it EXACTLY like the memo you're answering. If it's a letter to a client, make it a formal letter. This is VERY important and should be the easiest. The key is to review as many PT answers out there as you can. This doesn't take much time (maybe three minutes max per PT). Look at the instructions, look at the answer and skim stuff in between. Again, goal is for them to look at it and PASS. If your answer is structured wrong (say you wrote a memo instead of a court motion), it is the first reflection of your answer--and not a good one.

Don't skimp on your study of PTs. They suck but they can make or break your grade.

Great points, thank you for this. What do you feel is the most difficult part of the PT's? I want to say its the organization, because if you don't know how to organize it, then your PT is forever lost.

[barexamjuggernaut]

Anyone care to share their Barbri Refresher scores? Is it true that the Barbri refresher is more difficult than the barbri sim midterm? Also anyone who passed if they care to share their scores that would be really helpful round this time

[healthnut]

Great points, thank you for this. What do you feel is the most difficult part of the PT's? I want to say its the organization, because if you don't know how to organize it, then your PT is forever lost.

Anytime! Happy to help!

I think this truly depends (HAH!). Most of the time, it's definitely organize and figuring out WHAT EXACTLY the question is asking. My favorite is when this is taken care of for you and they give you do (a), (b), (c). Otherwise, it's key to be able to mirror the motion/memo provided in the file. Don't worry if there is nothing to mirror--just do the basics to show that you are doing memo v. motion or otherwise.

Otherwise, as I said in the beginning, I often will not grasp the basic facts of the PT. PT-A was a great example of this (it was not the asbestos one, but I'm not going to go look it up--anxiety!). I seriously remember just typing away in the middle of the time slot going, "This is all BS. I have NO idea where I am going with this. I don't even understand the topic. I need to make up for it on other sections. At least I did well this morning." I legit felt like that, so know that if you do, it's normal, and you can still pass! As I've stated in past posts, I truly focused on organization for all of my essays and PTs, so I think that's what nudged me if I was ever on the line.

[InTheWideLand I Walk]

that feeling when the bar is in 5 days but you are forced to be at work writing a motion to compel all day...ugh

[MrMustache]

Anyone care to share their Barbri Refresher scores? Is it true that the Barbri refresher is more difficult than the barbri sim midterm? Also anyone who passed if they care to share their scores that would be really helpful round this time

I thought that the refresher was more straightforward than the simulated exam. I scored a 125/200 (62.5%) on the simulated exam, and 71/100 on the refresher. On the simulated exam, I felt like I was guessing answers while trying to pick between two choices. On the refresher, the answers I didn't know, I just really didn't know.

Also, even though I didn't pass the bar, for what it's worth, my July MBE score was 1500.

[MrMustache]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

[Raiden]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I thought it was supposed to be cold in Socal, then it was hot this last week, then it was cold yesterday, and now the sun is out again...So I am planning to wear an eskimo jacket with shorts and flip flops.

[healthnut]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I'm not retaking, but I took it at SDCC in July.

I wore leggings, running shoes, a spaghetti strap shirt, and a jacket every day. Never took the jacket off.

It's a warehouse so it can get cold--I can only imagine it's a little colder in Feb.

[MrMustache]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I'm not retaking, but I took it at SDCC in July.

I wore leggings, running shoes, a spaghetti strap shirt, and a jacket every day. Never took the jacket off.

It's a warehouse so it can get cold--I can only imagine it's a little colder in Feb.

Got it. Thank you!

[BrokenMouse]

How much essay practice are you guys doing? Essays get no love? I thought the MBEs were only 33% of the grade, thus I figured I can probably get away with slightly below 1440 on the MBE.

BTW does anybody know approximately how many raw questions you gotta get correct out of the 190 counted questions on the CA MBE to get 1440 MBE score?

[jackbauer10]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I'm not retaking, but I took it at SDCC in July.

I wore leggings, running shoes, a spaghetti strap shirt, and a jacket every day. Never took the jacket off.

It's a warehouse so it can get cold--I can only imagine it's a little colder in Feb.

Thanks for this. Did you feel that the majority of people were dressed like you or were most people in jeans? Basically I'm asking if I can wear sweatpants and flip-flops.

[healthnut]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I'm not retaking, but I took it at SDCC in July.

I wore leggings, running shoes, a spaghetti strap shirt, and a jacket every day. Never took the jacket off.

It's a warehouse so it can get cold--I can only imagine it's a little colder in Feb.

Thanks for this. Did you feel that the majority of people were dressed like you or were most people in jeans? Basically I'm asking if I can wear sweatpants and flip-flops.

It was all over the place on the casual side. I definitely did not see anyone dressed up in anymore more than jeans. Sweatpants and flip flops are definitely okay! Be COMFORTABLE!

[Raiden]

How much essay practice are you guys doing? Essays get no love? I thought the MBEs were only 33% of the grade, thus I figured I can probably get away with slightly below 1440 on the MBE.

BTW does anybody know approximately how many raw questions you gotta get correct out of the 190 counted questions on the CA MBE to get 1440 MBE score?

I have been giving more love on the MBE because I know it's objective. Call me jaded, but even if I write a 65 essay, a grader could still give me a 55 and vice versa.

[Zaizei]

How much essay practice are you guys doing? Essays get no love? I thought the MBEs were only 33% of the grade, thus I figured I can probably get away with slightly below 1440 on the MBE.

BTW does anybody know approximately how many raw questions you gotta get correct out of the 190 counted questions on the CA MBE to get 1440 MBE score?

I've done 5 full essays for each of the subjects and 4 PTs in total. MBE talking, I've done 50 MBE questions per day (monday to friday) since December, plus 2 full MBE exams (which I think is a decent amount of MBE questions). I'm not planning to do more MBE questions, since I'm averaging somewhere in between 75 -85% right in every MBE subject. I think that you gotta get right around 128 questions to have 1440.

[fadedsunrise]

How much essay practice are you guys doing? Essays get no love? I thought the MBEs were only 33% of the grade, thus I figured I can probably get away with slightly below 1440 on the MBE.

BTW does anybody know approximately how many raw questions you gotta get correct out of the 190 counted questions on the CA MBE to get 1440 MBE score?

I stopped keeping track, but I think I've outlined or wrote out between 3-5 essays on each subject. Using the next few days to get up to 4/subject in the remaining areas (remedies, corporations, wills/trusts, and agency/partnership). As time permits I might do one more PT in full, or just read the answers to each common type.

[barprepblues]

How much essay practice are you guys doing? Essays get no love? I thought the MBEs were only 33% of the grade, thus I figured I can probably get away with slightly below 1440 on the MBE.

BTW does anybody know approximately how many raw questions you gotta get correct out of the 190 counted questions on the CA MBE to get 1440 MBE score?

I've done 5 full essays for each of the subjects and 4 PTs in total. MBE talking, I've done 50 MBE questions per day (monday to friday) since December, plus 2 full MBE exams (which I think is a decent amount of MBE questions). I'm not planning to do more MBE questions, since I'm averaging somewhere in between 75 -85% right in every MBE subject. I think that you gotta get right around 128 questions to have 1440.

Not even close to ^. 3 essays per subject, half of them written, half outlined. Mostly been reading the conviser.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

I just started PT this week.

[Zaizei]

I just started PT this week.

My advice: do at least a full one without time restrictions and a second one within 3 hours (which is the time that we've got in the bar).

[BrokenMouse]

Are there any bar essay predictions besides that doctor guy on Youtube? I heard Professor Heilman(??) usually has one out for each exam. I think he was half right last time for July. Would appreciate it if someone can share a link.

[a male human]

Are you guys keeping the default 10 point font size on examsoft? Seems like it might be too fine to read for some graders...maybe 12 point would be better?

Or maybe it would better of they skim quickly and just read the underlined/bold headings?

I kept it the same font as the one I used when practicing on MS Word: Times New Roman 12. That way I could inject some familiarity if I get nervous.

Also, I don't know SofTest got patched so that it doesn't get fucked like in '14... but to be on the safe side, I would avoid copy and pasting large chunks of text (500+ words). That screwed over some people by making it extremely difficult to see what you're typing.

Reading order: I generally go library then file because the rules you pull out provide context for the hodgepodge of facts scattered everywhere. Spend less time underlining the entire file because you don't know what's important. I definitely go library first if I find that it's the smaller booklet of the two after I check them before the test even begins (no rule against that).

Predictions: It shouldn't matter what is predicted by whom because all subjects are fair game. EXCEPTION: For one reason or another, you are now desperately strapped for time and feeling screwed. In this case, prioritize the subjects predicted by your favorite pundit (instead of ignoring all other subjects)

Hang in there! More quick tips coming later. Sorry if I haven't posted here as much. Just been focusing on the blog and personalized help. I should have posted some articles here too.

[rcharter1978]

San Diego convention center retakekers! What was the temperature like? Are they going to blast us with AC or is it going to be hot?

Edit: Also, what were the seats like? Should I surrender my last shred of dignity and bring a butt-pillow?

I brought a butt pillow, and was glad I did. But my comfort almost always comes before my dignity....moreso as I get older

I don't know about San Diego, but Ontario is FREEZING

[Zaizei]

Any advice for Pasadena? Is it too cold inside the test room?

[attjen]

What is the CA rule as it relates to contingency fees in Divorce Matters?

I am seeing conflicting sources.