BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[kyle010723]

Thank you to whoever went over rule interpleader and statutory interpleader. Sadly, it didn't help my reading comprehension. I was so excited to remember the rule that I didn't notice that the question was specifically asking about statutory interpleader.

lol. Just remember, statutory interpleader has it's own venue rule on top of that minimum diversity stuff.

[kykiske]

For anyone else who was curious after the post about the OBE-MBE from the NCBE:

I took the OBE 4 test this morning and got a scaled score of 164 (which would be low 150s raw using past raw score conversion charts). Consistent with what other posters have said, the questions are just more straight-forward. Like, there's usually just one issue they're testing on and it tends not to be that difficult to recognize which issue it is. Also, it's usually easier to toss out 1-2 of the answer choices almost immediately.

WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE BAR EXAM

Comparable to Emanuel? Or even easier?

Easier, IMO. I got around 137/200 on the Emanuel practice exam, so if the NCBE test is any indicator, you'll likely score higher than what you did on Emanuel.

ETA: and I took the Emanuel test this last week so it's not as if I've learned a ton since that time

If you scored a 164 (scaled) on the MBE, is it right to assume that you only have to be mildly competent on the MEE and MPT to pass?

[kyle010723]

If you scored a 164 (scaled) on the MBE, is it right to assume that you only have to be mildly competent on the MEE and MPT to pass?

In Illinois, that means you need a scaled of 102/200 on all essays + MPT. Not sure it's possible to get a score that low.

[Learned Throw Hands]

For anyone else who was curious after the post about the OBE-MBE from the NCBE:

I took the OBE 4 test this morning and got a scaled score of 164 (which would be low 150s raw using past raw score conversion charts). Consistent with what other posters have said, the questions are just more straight-forward. Like, there's usually just one issue they're testing on and it tends not to be that difficult to recognize which issue it is. Also, it's usually easier to toss out 1-2 of the answer choices almost immediately.


WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE BAR EXAM

Wait what is the OBE? And how can it be easier than Emmanuals if Emmanuals uses actual questions? Just curious but I'll take any boost in confidence I can this close to exam day.

[rinkrat19]

For anyone else who was curious after the post about the OBE-MBE from the NCBE:

I took the OBE 4 test this morning and got a scaled score of 164 (which would be low 150s raw using past raw score conversion charts). Consistent with what other posters have said, the questions are just more straight-forward. Like, there's usually just one issue they're testing on and it tends not to be that difficult to recognize which issue it is. Also, it's usually easier to toss out 1-2 of the answer choices almost immediately.


WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE BAR EXAM

Wait what is the OBE? And how can it be easier than Emmanuals if Emmanuals uses actual questions? Just curious but I'll take any boost in confidence I can this close to exam day.

Online Practice Exam offered for $50 by NCBE. I took #4 too and also thought it was a bit easier than the Emanuel sets. Don't really know why.

[Good Guy Gaud]

For anyone else who was curious after the post about the OBE-MBE from the NCBE:

I took the OBE 4 test this morning and got a scaled score of 164 (which would be low 150s raw using past raw score conversion charts). Consistent with what other posters have said, the questions are just more straight-forward. Like, there's usually just one issue they're testing on and it tends not to be that difficult to recognize which issue it is. Also, it's usually easier to toss out 1-2 of the answer choices almost immediately.


WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE BAR EXAM

Wait what is the OBE? And how can it be easier than Emmanuals if Emmanuals uses actual questions? Just curious but I'll take any boost in confidence I can this close to exam day.

The sets offered by the NCBE. The Emanuel's sets likely just have more difficult questions than the real thing

[charlesxavier]

I'm finding the "don't pick an answer if you've never heard of it before and it wasn't mentioned in your lecture because it's a sucker pick--yada yada" not to be true at all for non-barbri civ pro questions. What, did I accidentally only watch half of the lecture or something?

[kykiske]

If you scored a 164 (scaled) on the MBE, is it right to assume that you only have to be mildly competent on the MEE and MPT to pass?

In Illinois, that means you need a scaled of 102/200 on all essays + MPT. Not sure it's possible to get a score that low.

Great, thanks.

On a funny note:

http://youtu.be/ZsUXcmZso9g

[victortsoi]

If you scored a 164 (scaled) on the MBE, is it right to assume that you only have to be mildly competent on the MEE and MPT to pass?

In Illinois, that means you need a scaled of 102/200 on all essays + MPT. Not sure it's possible to get a score that low.

Great, thanks.

On a funny note:

http://youtu.be/ZsUXcmZso9g

me reading over my corps outline now.

[kykiske]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

[mr.hands]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

Same here. If someone said "tell me what you know about contracts" I wouldn't even know where to start. Same if they asked about third part beneficiaries. I just completely blank despite the fact that I've been doing this for 2 months

Edit: I spell like a monkey

[charlesxavier]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

That's how I am. It's more about recall than straight memorization. My wife asked me last night to ask her a question to see if she could answer it and I'm pretty sure I had a blank stare on my face and drooled as I tried to come up with something.

[BVest]

Yeah, I've been focusing on recognition and recall rather than memorization.

[brotherdarkness]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

Same here. If someone said "tell me what you know about contracts" I wouldn't even know where to start. Same if they asked about third part beneficiaries. I just completely blank desire the fact that I've been doing this for 2 months

This is a good point -- it's hard to remember things in isolation, but facts are a good trigger if the rules are somewhere in your head. My dad called me the other day to chat about the DeAndre Jordan issue (the Mavs thing). I ran thru an entire contracts and remedies analysis with him and felt good about being able to do so.

[kyle010723]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

+1. Just did an equity essay and squeezed out umm, legal remedy must be insufficient and the remedy must be feasible to enforce! Oh well, we're all going to pass!

[smokeylarue]

Jacking this from the Themis thread but I'm curious about it too because this assignment/delegation/third party beneficiary stuff ALWAYS trips me up....

Can someone explain to me 3rd Party Beneficiaries in these contexts?

1) A contracts with B. B owes A $1,000. A tells B to give the $1,000 to C (assigning A's rights to C). A tells C that B will give her money. C goes out and buys $1,000 worth of stuff on her credit card. B later gives $1,000 to A. Can C sue B for not giving her the money?

2) Same facts as above, EXCEPT B doesn't give money at all to A. Can C sue B for payment?

I've been really confused whether incidental beneficiaries can ever vest by detrimental reliance if they had notice (like A telling C that B will give her money).

Also, is there a difference between creditor/donee beneficiaries as to how their interests vest?

If anyone can tell me how they handle assignments of payment on K questions, I would greatly appreciate it! (e.g., who owes who the money, who can sue whom).

Thanks!

[Kage3212]

What are people bringing for lunch? Just realized we have no access to fridge and our lunch has to be in our bag that we bring the entire time? Anyone have a good meal regime they are planning that doesnt require a fridge?

[ladylawyer1221]

For anyone else who was curious after the post about the OBE-MBE from the NCBE:

I took the OBE 4 test this morning and got a scaled score of 164 (which would be low 150s raw using past raw score conversion charts). Consistent with what other posters have said, the questions are just more straight-forward. Like, there's usually just one issue they're testing on and it tends not to be that difficult to recognize which issue it is. Also, it's usually easier to toss out 1-2 of the answer choices almost immediately.


WE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE BAR EXAM

Just wanted to echo this I just took OBE 4, and got a 161. Not sure how much credit to give because honestly I feel like a 161 is just too good to be true lol. Just for reference, I got a 125 on the simulated MBE and ranged between 64%-80% on the mixed practice sets. I'm also not entirely convinced that the OBE problems are completely representative of the real test, but regardless I will admit that the questions were MUCH SHORTER than Barbri's long tangent novel of fact patterns. The facts/issues were easy to follow and 2 answer choices were usually clearly wrong.

I'll just pray that Wednesday's test is similar!!

[charlesxavier]

So I've been doing some non-barbri, non-emanuel Civ Pro questions because I didn't get the access card...

So, for waiver (whether affirmative defenses or rule 12, etc.) you're fine if you amend in time to include those waivable issues? And you're also fine if you're late but in the judge's discretion justice requires it?

[kykiske]

My mind is in a strange spot right now.

I've done so much prep. Crammed as much as possible in my head.

And if you were to just randomly ask me, say, "List all the elements of a false imprisonment." I honestly would not know the answer. But if you give me a fact pattern that includes false imprisonment, I will likely think of these elements: (1) intent; (2) causation; and (3) confinement in a bounded area. Possibly unlawful use of legal authority.

That's not likely the EXACT test, but I'm pretty sure that's close enough to get a passing score.

That's how I am. It's more about recall than straight memorization. My wife asked me last night to ask her a question to see if she could answer it and I'm pretty sure I had a blank stare on my face and drooled as I tried to come up with something.

I also looked over the graded essays you posted. The one that received a "7" was damn good, but it was not perfect. I doubt I could reproduce that same content in 30 minutes, especially about dormant commerce clause and a state's tax on interstate commerce.

But, if that answer represents the top score, I'm confident that all of us can get a 4-6 on each essay.

For the essays and MPT, so much turns on time-management.

I remember from 1L year about how certain classmates talked about how they "aced" the first two questions, but didn't have time to really answer the third question. Then were mad about their final grade.

As I did throughout law school, and will do here, I'll just shoot for dat average on every question. Getting a "4" on six questions is better than getting a "7" on only three questions.

[kyle010723]

So I've been doing some non-barbri, non-emanuel Civ Pro questions because I didn't get the access card...

So, for waiver (whether affirmative defenses or rule 12, etc.) you're fine if you amend in time to include those waivable issues? And you're also fine if you're late but in the judge's discretion justice requires it?

Yes, 21 days for free or beg the judgy afterward

[musicfor18]

Jacking this from the Themis thread but I'm curious about it too because this assignment/delegation/third party beneficiary stuff ALWAYS trips me up....

Can someone explain to me 3rd Party Beneficiaries in these contexts?

1) A contracts with B. B owes A $1,000. A tells B to give the $1,000 to C (assigning A's rights to C). A tells C that B will give her money. C goes out and buys $1,000 worth of stuff on her credit card. B later gives $1,000 to A. Can C sue B for not giving her the money?

2) Same facts as above, EXCEPT B doesn't give money at all to A. Can C sue B for payment?

I've been really confused whether incidental beneficiaries can ever vest by detrimental reliance if they had notice (like A telling C that B will give her money).

Also, is there a difference between creditor/donee beneficiaries as to how their interests vest?

If anyone can tell me how they handle assignments of payment on K questions, I would greatly appreciate it! (e.g., who owes who the money, who can sue whom).

Thanks!

I'll take a shot at this, but others should check my work.

(1) This isn't a TPB question; it's an assignment question. I think that C could sue B because B knew about the assignment. I don't think C could sue A, though, because it was a gratuitous assignment (no consideration), which means it's revocable. Is this right?

(2) Yes, C can sue B. (Assignee can sue obligor)

I don't think there's any difference between creditor and donee beneficiaries regarding vesting. The only difference is that a creditor beneficiary can enforce the contract against the promisee to the extent of the pre-existing debt, whereas donee beneficiaries can't enforce the contract against the promisee at all (only the promisor).

[rinkrat19]

What are people bringing for lunch? Just realized we have no access to fridge and our lunch has to be in our bag that we bring the entire time? Anyone have a good meal regime they are planning that doesnt require a fridge?

We can leave and go wherever we want during lunch, apparently. (I emailed to ask because the instructions didn't even mention lunch.) I'm going to have a cooler in my car with a sandwich and a cupcake.

Thank god, because we're only allowed a quart-sized bag. wtf. Pencils barely fit in it.

[old_soul]

Has anyone else experienced this?

When I took the Simulated MBE, I had 15-20 mins left over in both sessions.

When I took the MBE Half Day and MBE Refresher, I had only 3-5 mins left over in each. My guess is that my time went up because the qs got harder, and/or I am guessing less plus reasoning more through the wrong answers.

[kyle010723]

What are people bringing for lunch? Just realized we have no access to fridge and our lunch has to be in our bag that we bring the entire time? Anyone have a good meal regime they are planning that doesnt require a fridge?

We can leave and go wherever we want during lunch, apparently. (I emailed to ask because the instructions didn't even mention lunch.) I'm going to have a cooler in my car with a sandwich and a cupcake.

Thank god, because we're only allowed a quart-sized bag. wtf. Pencils barely fit in it.

I think we can leave and come back, but we only have 45 mins for lunch break and I am assuming there's some kind of security line... So I honestly have no idea what to do as to lunch.