February 2016 California Bar Exam Forum

[InTheWideLand I Walk]

anyone else suspect the bar committee will lighten up a little bit on the grading this year, seeing that July 2015 was the highest fail rate in 30 years, July 2014 was the highest fail rate in 10 years? I think they should be getting the point by now they have been screwing up.

I don't think they care. I think they finally figured out that they can get away with limiting the number of attorneys on the market by basically saying that the only reason the failure rate is so high is that the law graduates are dumber and "less able" than before. I'm expecting an even lower pass rate this time around.

ur right, I read about that in several places. Imo I think Jul 2015 PTA and the corporations essay were the cause of the jul 2015 crisis, along with maybe the medium-sized sect of people who probably didnt study for takings.

[jackbauer10]

anyone else suspect the bar committee will lighten up a little bit on the grading this year, seeing that July 2015 was the highest fail rate in 30 years, July 2014 was the highest fail rate in 10 years? I think they should be getting the point by now they have been screwing up.

I don't think they care. I think they finally figured out that they can get away with limiting the number of attorneys on the market by basically saying that the only reason the failure rate is so high is that the law graduates are dumber and "less able" than before. I'm expecting an even lower pass rate this time around.

ur right, I read about that in several places. Imo I think Jul 2015 PTA and the corporations essay were the cause of the jul 2015 crisis, along with maybe the medium-sized sect of people who probably didnt study for takings.

I heard about the corporations and takings issues, but what was the deal with PTA?

[MrMustache]

anyone else suspect the bar committee will lighten up a little bit on the grading this year, seeing that July 2015 was the highest fail rate in 30 years, July 2014 was the highest fail rate in 10 years? I think they should be getting the point by now they have been screwing up.

I don't think they care. I think they finally figured out that they can get away with limiting the number of attorneys on the market by basically saying that the only reason the failure rate is so high is that the law graduates are dumber and "less able" than before. I'm expecting an even lower pass rate this time around.

ur right, I read about that in several places. Imo I think Jul 2015 PTA and the corporations essay were the cause of the jul 2015 crisis, along with maybe the medium-sized sect of people who probably didnt study for takings.

I heard about the corporations and takings issues, but what was the deal with PTA?

I don't remember the exact details, but you were supposed to draft a response to a motion for summary judgment. If you followed the BarBri/Themis strategy of reading the task memo, then reading the library, and THEN reading the case file you were out of luck because most of the case law covered in the library was already included in the motion you were replying to, and that motion was the last thing you read.

[jackbauer10]

I don't remember the exact details, but you were supposed to draft a response to a motion for summary judgment. If you followed the BarBri/Themis strategy of reading the task memo, then reading the library, and THEN reading the case file you were out of luck because most of the case law covered in the library was already included in the motion you were replying to, and that motion was the last thing you read.

This is so scary to me. I did all the PTs assigned by Barbri using that strategy and found myself struggling to discern what was relevant in the library without having read the rest of the case file. On the last one I did, I read the case file first and found it considerably easier, but now am wondering if that was just due to the particular PT. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel uncomfortable going against Barbri's method when they claim that it's tried and tested, but I can't help but think I'm just one of those people who needs to read the file first, even if I lose a few minutes having to go back and re-read it.

[BrokenMouse]

I don't remember the exact details, but you were supposed to draft a response to a motion for summary judgment. If you followed the BarBri/Themis strategy of reading the task memo, then reading the library, and THEN reading the case file you were out of luck because most of the case law covered in the library was already included in the motion you were replying to, and that motion was the last thing you read.

This is so scary to me. I did all the PTs assigned by Barbri using that strategy and found myself struggling to discern what was relevant in the library without having read the rest of the case file. On the last one I did, I read the case file first and found it considerably easier, but now am wondering if that was just due to the particular PT. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel uncomfortable going against Barbri's method when they claim that it's tried and tested, but I can't help but think I'm just one of those people who needs to read the file first, even if I lose a few minutes having to go back and re-read it.

I found myself finishing on time when I read the library first because I summarize the case methodically with rules. It allows me to get the law on paper before spending a lot of time freaking out and thinking about wtf is happening in the file. But when I read the file first, I am more purposeful in looking through the library.

For me, I think Barbri method works. But one big giant F up I made for PT-A in July was I failed to recognize, like the above poster said, that it was a response to a MSJ (Memo of Points and Authority), but I wrote it like an internal memo to the boss arguing on both sides. They 55'ed that shit and I deserved it. Besides, I never fully understood the what the file documents said in PT-A. I knew it was about asbestos but I could not follow the story at all. I was surprised I even wrote anything.

[BrokenMouse]

Seriously is property MBE really fking hard or did I just not spend enough time on it? Property is by far the most studied subject for me and I just got 62% accuracy out of 54 questions. All other subjects I am pulling 70%+ accuracy. Also I just gave up on learning rule against perpetuity. I didn't get it last time, and I didn't get it this time. I can recite the rule by heart but I will never figure out how to apply it. Barbri explanation is not helping. If anybody has some good info on where I can learn this I'd appreciate it.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

I'm so nervous

[rcharter1978]

I'm so nervous

I think thats a good sign. I'm simply resigned to my fate at this point

[barprepblues]

I'm so nervous

i started going to church again...

seriously, there is so much material. i hate wills & trusts, torts and constitutional law. there are so many elements to memorize, and i keep getting them mixed up.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

I'm so nervous

I think thats a good sign. I'm simply resigned to my fate at this point

Thanks, but I am so nervous I can't even sleep. I was just in bed for almost two hours unable to sleep because of worrying about issues that I am fuzzy on like obligee and obligor and all that crap. But maybe that's a good thing? I have never been nervous the past times I took the bar. Hell i was never nervous in high school asking a girl out. And public speaking never phases me.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

I'm so nervous

i started going to church again...

seriously, there is so much material. i hate wills & trusts, torts and constitutional law. there are so many elements to memorize, and i keep getting them mixed up.

Yea same here. My study plan for this week is to focus on just typing out rule statements over and over again and writing essay answers headlining the crap out of everything. Hard limit on maximum 5 sentences per paragraph.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

oh god i just had an emotional breakdown

[healthnut]

anyone else suspect the bar committee will lighten up a little bit on the grading this year, seeing that July 2015 was the highest fail rate in 30 years, July 2014 was the highest fail rate in 10 years? I think they should be getting the point by now they have been screwing up.

I don't think they care. I think they finally figured out that they can get away with limiting the number of attorneys on the market by basically saying that the only reason the failure rate is so high is that the law graduates are dumber and "less able" than before. I'm expecting an even lower pass rate this time around.

ur right, I read about that in several places. Imo I think Jul 2015 PTA and the corporations essay were the cause of the jul 2015 crisis, along with maybe the medium-sized sect of people who probably didnt study for takings.

I heard about the corporations and takings issues, but what was the deal with PTA?

I don't remember the exact details, but you were supposed to draft a response to a motion for summary judgment. If you followed the BarBri/Themis strategy of reading the task memo, then reading the library, and THEN reading the case file you were out of luck because most of the case law covered in the library was already included in the motion you were replying to, and that motion was the last thing you read.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

[BrokenMouse]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

I could not finish a PT without doing this method. For one it forces you to put down a rule based skeleton outline then you just modify as you read the file. But what is important is you methodically put something down on paper instead of wasting time figuring out wtf is happening in the file. PT-A was just hard. I did not understand the story of what happened with asbestos.

[jackbauer10]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

I could not finish a PT without doing this method. For one it forces you to put down a rule based skeleton outline then you just modify as you read the file. But what is important is you methodically put something down on paper instead of wasting time figuring out wtf is happening in the file. PT-A was just hard. I did not understand the story of what happened with asbestos.

So the consensus is I should stick to my Barbri plan of reading/outlining law in the library first? I'm going to read through the rest of the PTs in the Barbri book to make sure I feel comfortable with the different types and know what to be on the lookout for. I also want to make sure I'm getting the "big picture" of the assignment, because sometimes when it just says to "analyze the consequences," I don't always get that that means "talk about the pros and cons." Some of the wording I just feel like is damn tricky.

[Raiden]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

I could not finish a PT without doing this method. For one it forces you to put down a rule based skeleton outline then you just modify as you read the file. But what is important is you methodically put something down on paper instead of wasting time figuring out wtf is happening in the file. PT-A was just hard. I did not understand the story of what happened with asbestos.

I never thought about typing up the law while coming across it in the library, but it makes sense, you can't be losing that much time even if you have to delete, and I am sure you can use that law for some relevant introduction or further explanation. It becomes way easier to know where to put that law if you have an outline before you tackle the library, but that isn't always possible.

Also, my understanding is that there are really two ways to create an outline: (1) the instructions give you an outline by telling you to respond to an opposition (just respond to the opposition points) or (2) by creating an outline from the rules and subrules that are hopefully just in one case (possibly from more than one case.) Any other ideas on what we base our outlines on?

[Zaizei]

Does anyone knows when can we go to the test center and get inside the examination room to be familiar with it? I think it is one day before the exam begins.

[MrMustache]

Does anyone knows when can we go to the test center and get inside the examination room to be familiar with it? I think it is one day before the exam begins.

To get inside the actual examination room before the exam? I tried that at the Oakland convention center in July, and was told to pretty much f*** off in no uncertain terms. For a second I thought they were going to write me up just for asking. I guess if you get there before the bar people do, you could check it out. Otherwise you might sneak in a mechanical pencil or a non-analog watch, you monster.

[Zaizei]

Does anyone knows when can we go to the test center and get inside the examination room to be familiar with it? I think it is one day before the exam begins.

To get inside the actual examination room before the exam? I tried that at the Oakland convention center in July, and was told to pretty much f*** off in no uncertain terms. For a second I thought they were going to write me up just for asking. I guess if you get there before the bar people do, you could check it out. Otherwise you might sneak in a mechanical pencil or a non-analog watch, you monster.

Well I said it because last July I went to the Century Plaza Hotel, specifically to the ballroom where I was supposed to sit the next day, and was told that the room was open just few minutes before (when I arrived it was closed) to visit and get familiar with it :/

[BrokenMouse]

Has anyone done PT - In Re JS? It's about a homeless guy with TB who refuses treatment but goes around untreated.

It was my fist PT I could not finish. It was one PT that shook my belief that reading the library is the way to go. I did not think that reading from the library helped at all because the outline came from the task memo and the case rules were pretty much useless and out of context without the interview transcript from the file. I guess this is one way for the bar to F us either way.

Would love to discuss with someone who has taken this practice test.

[healthnut]

Does anyone knows when can we go to the test center and get inside the examination room to be familiar with it? I think it is one day before the exam begins.

In SD, you cannot do this. They have the convention center roped off inside with security in high presence.

[healthnut]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I did the "Barbri" method (although I took Themis and it was their method too) and passed. TBH, I felt the worst about PT-A because I could not grasp the topic in general, from what I remember. I don't think the strategy of HOW you approach the PT's has much to do with your success. It's more about WHAT you do during that approach time.

IE like someone brought up below: I typed in the law as I read the case library. Although many people may irk that some law becomes irrelevant to your exact prompt, and therefore you may be wasting minutes by typing such irrelevant law, I think two things: 1) Odds of you getting highly dinged for adding something extra is minimal if you hit most/everything else; and 2) you're really not wasting that much time--we all type fast and can delete even faster. Consider giving yourself props for figuring out that you've typed out law that DOESN'T fit the answer.

In the end, typing it out as you read the library saves you so much time because you technically have your base answer laid out. Just need to fill in the BS around it and organize it in a way someone can look at it for one minute and say, "It looks like they understand what is going on here, PASS."

GL!!

I could not finish a PT without doing this method. For one it forces you to put down a rule based skeleton outline then you just modify as you read the file. But what is important is you methodically put something down on paper instead of wasting time figuring out wtf is happening in the file. PT-A was just hard. I did not understand the story of what happened with asbestos.

I never thought about typing up the law while coming across it in the library, but it makes sense, you can't be losing that much time even if you have to delete, and I am sure you can use that law for some relevant introduction or further explanation. It becomes way easier to know where to put that law if you have an outline before you tackle the library, but that isn't always possible.

Also, my understanding is that there are really two ways to create an outline: (1) the instructions give you an outline by telling you to respond to an opposition (just respond to the opposition points) or (2) by creating an outline from the rules and subrules that are hopefully just in one case (possibly from more than one case.) Any other ideas on what we base our outlines on?

Exactly--you're creating a base so you have some written substance down when you get to the facts. I think most would be absolutely lost without such notes, but I do know some people rely on highlighting/note taking in the booklets. Again, to me, this is wasted time because you have to then find what is relevant, transcribe all of your notes to the computer, flip back and forth between pages, and the list goes on. . . At the end of this, you STILL have to organize!! It's not efficient. Bottom line: it's disorganized and @ the bar, you have no time for disorganization. Plus, lack of organization creates huge anxiety and as I have said before, the bar comes down to ATTITUDE.

From your response to an "outline," I think you may be getting us confused. I use the word "outline" loosely. By no means am I creating an outline. I'm simply jotting down law into the computer as I read it with a the first word of the case/statute. I am then able to organize my memo/motion by copying/pasting those notes. I say outline because you may get to the point where you just write around those points of law with your facts. The key is to use your outline/notes/(whatever you call them) simultaneously to answer the prompt.

As far as organization, you likely will be highly led to the type of organization the answer asks for. More likely than not, if you are responding, you're going to structure it EXACTLY like the motion you're responding to. If it's a memo, structure it EXACTLY like the memo you're answering. If it's a letter to a client, make it a formal letter. This is VERY important and should be the easiest. The key is to review as many PT answers out there as you can. This doesn't take much time (maybe three minutes max per PT). Look at the instructions, look at the answer and skim stuff in between. Again, goal is for them to look at it and PASS. If your answer is structured wrong (say you wrote a memo instead of a court motion), it is the first reflection of your answer--and not a good one.

Don't skimp on your study of PTs. They suck but they can make or break your grade.

[BrokenMouse]

Exactly--you're creating a base so you have some written substance down when you get to the facts. I think most would be absolutely lost without such notes, but I do know some people rely on highlighting/note taking in the booklets. Again, to me, this is wasted time because you have to then find what is relevant, transcribe all of your notes to the computer, flip back and forth between pages, and the list goes on. . . At the end of this, you STILL have to organize!! It's not efficient. Bottom line: it's disorganized and @ the bar, you have no time for disorganization. Plus, lack of organization creates huge anxiety and as I have said before, the bar comes down to ATTITUDE.

From your response to an "outline," I think you may be getting us confused. I use the word "outline" loosely. By no means am I creating an outline. I'm simply jotting down law into the computer as I read it with a the first word of the case/statute. I am then able to organize my memo/motion by copying/pasting those notes. I say outline because you may get to the point where you just write around those points of law with your facts. The key is to use your outline/notes/(whatever you call them) simultaneously to answer the prompt.

As far as organization, you likely will be highly led to the type of organization the answer asks for. More likely than not, if you are responding, you're going to structure it EXACTLY like the motion you're responding to. If it's a memo, structure it EXACTLY like the memo you're answering. If it's a letter to a client, make it a formal letter. This is VERY important and should be the easiest. The key is to review as many PT answers out there as you can. This doesn't take much time (maybe three minutes max per PT). Look at the instructions, look at the answer and skim stuff in between. Again, goal is for them to look at it and PASS. If your answer is structured wrong (say you wrote a memo instead of a court motion), it is the first reflection of your answer--and not a good one.

Don't skimp on your study of PTs. They suck but they can make or break your grade.

Excellent points. So do you read the library first or file? My reading comprehension isn't very good and I didn't get your point.

Also I am one of those idiots who literally wrote a memo instead of a court motion for PT-A in July 2015. Remember that asbestos one? Yeah I wrote a memo to the supervising attorney. This was the one single reason why I did not pass.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

Are you guys keeping the default 10 point font size on examsoft? Seems like it might be too fine to read for some graders...maybe 12 point would be better?

Or maybe it would better of they skim quickly and just read the underlined/bold headings?

[Zaizei]

Are you guys keeping the default 10 point font size on examsoft? Seems like it might be too fine to read for some graders...maybe 12 point would be better?

Or maybe it would better of they skim quickly and just read the underlined/bold headings?

They reformat the whole thing, so it doesn't matter.