California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread Forum

[hyc9598]

I hate that I have to learn CA CP even tho it's never been tested and likely won't be on the test. What a waste of time.

CA CP=CA Civil Pro?

[lmr]

I hate that I have to learn CA CP even tho it's never been tested and likely won't be on the test. What a waste of time.

CA CP=CA Civil Pro?

I was stressing over this today-bar secrets guy said that they have to test CA CP or it would be like they are conceding the subject given that the mbe will have CP next administration. Also, everyone is saying how CA evidence is definitely going to be tested. Are we going to the lucky ones who get a CA civ pro and CA evidence exam?

[ilovesf]

I hate that I have to learn CA CP even tho it's never been tested and likely won't be on the test. What a waste of time.

CA CP=CA Civil Pro?

I was stressing over this today-bar secrets guy said that they have to test CA CP or it would be like they are conceding the subject given that the mbe will have CP next administration. Also, everyone is saying how CA evidence is definitely going to be tested. Are we going to the lucky ones who get a CA civ pro and CA evidence exam?

i will kill myself.

[lisavj]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/deenashanker/fa ... t?s=mobile

[ph14]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/deenashanker/fa ... t?s=mobile

Yeah, but if you do fail and become famous you get to be included on lists like that for the rest of your life.

[adonai]

I hate that I have to learn CA CP even tho it's never been tested and likely won't be on the test. What a waste of time.

CA CP=CA Civil Pro?

I was stressing over this today-bar secrets guy said that they have to test CA CP or it would be like they are conceding the subject given that the mbe will have CP next administration. Also, everyone is saying how CA evidence is definitely going to be tested. Are we going to the lucky ones who get a CA civ pro and CA evidence exam?

The bar people explained that they technically already tested CA CP multiple times. Nobody noticed though because they tested on issues that overlapped (Personal Jurisdiction, etc.). Weird reasoning, but whatever.

[LSATNightmares]

Do we know already when the bar results for this July will be out in November?

[umstah]

for all of us in CA... some random musings

http://www.ndcalblog.com/2011/11/debrie ... a-bar.html

"By my math if you scored a 62.5 as an average essay and 120 raw on the MBE, you would have passed the exam. Which is much less than scores bar review companies advertise."

http://www.ndcalblog.com/2012/05/debrie ... -exam.html

By my math if you scored a 62.5 as an average essay and 132 raw on the MBE, you would have passed the exam. Which is much more than was required in July 2011.

i think this gives credit to the 'focus on the MBE' strategy that i've been reading about lately. if you do 35 questions a day for the next month, you'd do just over 1k questions by the time of the bar exam. doing 1k questions and reviewing the answers should make doing quite well on the MBE very possible, especially if you have been doing a moderate (few hours a day) amount of work. apparently the barbri average was 114 (which according to them equals around a 126 on the MBE... but who knows), so if you're scoring around that already and then do 1k questions on top of that, i think it would suggest that you'd have a good chance of getting a 150+ with that kind of score, you have a lot more breathing room on the essays. Judging from the range of essay scores, apparently most people get within a quite narrow range, meaning that even if you don't know the essay material *that* well and write a poor essay, you still won't end up doing that much worse.

thoughts?

[a male human]

I would disagree on one point. But this one point is paramount from my perspective as a 2nd-time passer.

My impression is that essay scores are not given in a narrow range. I've personally gotten a 50 on an intentional torts question. I've seen a 60 on an answer that primarily discussed negligence (which is not an intentional tort) on the same question. Grading is quasi-subjective, and you would be well advised to be a solid essay writer by knowing how to identify as many issues and sub-issues as you can and knowing the rules for them. The more issues you plan, the more IRACs tend to sprout, and the higher your score. From talking to other repeaters (maybe because of it), the typical scores range from 50 to 70. That by itself is a wide range, given that the lowest score you can get is 40. Moreover, each 5-point step makes a fairly significant impact on your scaled score. If you make the same sort of mistake on every essay, the impact multiples sixfold. If you account for people who pass and never see their score, the upper range goes even higher. I've seen an 85 before, and that was from someone who failed the bar.

Every single repeater I talked to had failed primarily because of the essays. They are arguably the hardest part of the whole test because you have to identify the issues, recall (not merely familiarize yourself with) specific rules associated with those issues, and pull relevant facts. They are like mini-PTs with issues and rules you either know or flub.

The MBE is important, but it is only one-third of your grade. Do not underestimate the essays. If you were taking a two-day bar where the MBE is half your grade, then focusing on the MBE has more merit. Why does CA have the lowest pass rate in the country? They nail us with the written portions. You see other states enjoying their 90%+ pass rates even though as much as half of their score comes from the MBE. (If you argue that the way other states scale their score is different, I have no counterargument since I haven't seen the scaling equations.)

You should definitely target your MBE score to at least 130/200; 135 is good; 140 is even better. It's so much easier to think about preparing for the MBE because all you have to do is grind away doing busy work on dinky little MBE questions. On the contrary, maybe the MBE requires more strategizing because you get objective data. I wrote before about surgically treating weak subjects based on your progress.

However, this grinding-style "deliberate practice" can actually be applied to essays as well! Don't put off essays thinking you'll somehow be OK because you recognize the rules when you read them. Don't relax because "the average score is 62.5." Don't perform numeric gymnastics to justify not being as best prepared as you can be. You can do all that after the bar as you go to bed wondering how you did for the next 120 days or as you fervently go on posting sprees in this topic, nauseated with uncertainty and impatience.

Oh, and don't put off PTs either. I would know how to do PTs first and foremost since they are also worth 1/3 of your grade. While you only get two chances at them, the good part is they are skill based and easier to learn. I'm assuming my post from a few days ago had merit because no one was able to rebut my stance that you should do than just 1 PT the week before the exam (as someone boldly suggested). Of course, if you're a super genius or something, you can disregard everything I said in this post.

[Charles Barkley]

I'm looking at the lean sheets for Civ Pro.

On the first page under the Erie doctrine, it says:

CA: CA governs substantive and proc.

Is this accurate? Does California law apply for both substantive law and procedural rules?

[ph14]

I'm looking at the lean sheets for Civ Pro.

On the first page under the Erie doctrine, it says:

CA: CA governs substantive and proc.

Is this accurate? Does California law apply for both substantive law and procedural rules?

Is it the "CA distinctions" stuff? If so, then I think that is just saying "California [distinction]: California law governs substantive and procedural issues [in California state court]."

Edit: Yeah, that is what it is saying. Notice that it's under the heading "What Law Governs?" Then it says:

Federal: Erie
CA: California law

The CA you're referencing isn't "On the first page under the Erie doctrine," it's under "What Law Governs?"

[Charles Barkley]

Ah okay. I was thinking it meant that state procedural rules apply in federal diversity cases, which would be different than the Erie doctrine under federal law. I was nervous for a minute because none of my other materials had that distinction.

I just misread the page. Thanks for your help!

[ph14]

Ah okay. I was thinking it meant that state procedural rules apply in federal diversity cases, which would be different than the Erie doctrine under federal law. I was nervous for a minute because none of my other materials had that distinction.

Yeah, FRCP definitely governs in federal courts, even in federal diversity cases applying state substantive law.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

I hate that I have to learn CA CP even tho it's never been tested and likely won't be on the test. What a waste of time.

CA CP=CA Civil Pro?

I was stressing over this today-bar secrets guy said that they have to test CA CP or it would be like they are conceding the subject given that the mbe will have CP next administration. Also, everyone is saying how CA evidence is definitely going to be tested. Are we going to the lucky ones who get a CA civ pro and CA evidence exam?

Every second of study time that I devote to Civ Pro (which hasn't been much so far) feels like I'm wasting my time when I could be focusing on an MBE subject. SO stressful!

[ph14]

I think there's some value in saying "community property hasn't been tested in over ten years, so it probably won't be on this test." But lol at trying to guess the essays.

[adonai]

Guess ill be retaking in feb. Got my simulated mbe results.

[ph14]

Guess ill be retaking in feb. Got my simulated mbe results.

And how did you do?

[adonai]

Guess ill be retaking in feb. Got my simulated mbe results.

And how did you do?

Didn't even break 100. I got an 89 which is around bottom 10%. Worse than my diagnostic. I actually got stupider over time.

I know barbri questions are supposed to be harder, but an 89 wont make up the difference no matter how you view it.

[ph14]

Guess ill be retaking in feb. Got my simulated mbe results.

And how did you do?

Didn't even break 100. I got an 89 which is around bottom 10%. Worse than my diagnostic. I actually got stupider over time.

That probably means you're learning the full complexities of the law. Keep at it. There was someone ITT who got like an 82 and passed in July. Drill MBE questions.

[ilovesf]

It's okay, you still have a month! Look at it that way.

[adonai]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. It just doesn't seem like a month will make a huge difference. A month passed since I first started studying and I really feel like not much progress has been made..

[pkt63]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. It just doesn't seem like a month will make a huge difference. A month passed since I first started studying and I really feel like not much progress has been made..

It might help if you think of it this way - during law school, you were "learning" during the 14 week semester, but if you were anything like me, after you attended the last class you didn't really know shit and you were probably panicking about having to *really* learn the stuff you don't remember from those 14 weeks - times 3-4 classes you had finals in 2 weeks from that day. We have over a month! And if you can learn 3-4 classes in-depth in 2 weeks (or less depending on the timing of your finals and how long your reading/dead week was) you can learn this superficial amount of law, admittedly on like 15 subjects, in 4.5 weeks.

At least, if you learned anything like I did in law school - maybe that will help. When I think about that, I know that even if I don't have the rule statements down pat for everything 2 weeks from today I'm going to be totally fine.

I think even if my analogy doesn't hold water for you, you have to ignore the big picture and use those results only to help you pick out your very weakest subjects and fix the problem. You already paid the money there's no backing out, so focus on fixing the problem in the time you have because it can be done. I'll admit, it's rough, but right now, today, I think the biggest battle you have to fight is psychological. Don't let it beat you when it's not even July yet! And don't make yourself fight extra battles because you need that energy for learning. Good luck!

[lmr]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. It just doesn't seem like a month will make a huge difference. A month passed since I first started studying and I really feel like not much progress has been made..

Don't even bother taking the exam w that mentality. I think you need to change your attitude a bit and practice more-how much time are you putting in a day? Have you dissected why you are getting each question wrong? making a list of rules to review? Particular subject areas that are weak? are you at least narrowing them down to two? People can pass the exam w a month of total prep. I don't buy your logic that you can't make progress w/in a month based on the past month, that's ridiculous.

[ph14]

Don't even bother taking the exam w that mentality. I think you need to change your attitude a bit.

That's a bit harsh. He's just had a not so great day. No need to pile on him right now.

and practice more-how much time are you putting in a day? Have you dissected why you are getting each question wrong? making a list of rules to review? Particular subject areas that are weak? are you at least narrowing them down to two? People can pass the exam w a month of total prep. I don't buy your logic that you can't make progress w/in a month based on the past month, that's ridiculous

Agreed.

[lmr]

Don't even bother taking the exam w that mentality. I think you need to change your attitude a bit.

That's a bit harsh. He's just had a not so great day. No need to pile on him right now.

and practice more-how much time are you putting in a day? Have you dissected why you are getting each question wrong? making a list of rules to review? Particular subject areas that are weak? are you at least narrowing them down to two? People can pass the exam w a month of total prep. I don't buy your logic that you can't make progress w/in a month based on the past month, that's ridiculous

Agreed.

Maybe harsh but i don't think anyone should be going into an exam thinking they are going to fail and having february be even a remote option in their mind at this point. self-fulfilling prophecies are real. he/she needs to eliminate that negative thinking-it's unproductive.