2018 February New York Bar Forum

[northwood]

Remember you only need to score the minimum number to pass. No one cares except for that you passed.

[b290]

Initial states' pass rates aren't encouraging. This is going to be rough to navigate the coming days.

Yeah, with a 132 national MBE median, this is going to be a complete bloodbath. I'm freaked out now

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's definitely not good, BUT, I failed NY by 4 points last July w/ a 131 MBE and definitely was below average on at least 1/2 of the MEE. 1 MPT was substantial above average & the other was basically below average by the same amt. of points, so that was a wash for me...

Anyway, point: I don't know that a 132 average MBE is necessarily a death sentence unless you know that you royally fucked up like half the MEE or something. It may not put you in the 280s, but the 266 seems do-able. (emphasis added)

It's definitely doable. When you miss by that much, you could've taken it on a different day and passed. That's not on you. Mine is a pretty much a similar story.

I've included mine from July for those who haven't seen what a score report looks like (also

https://i.imgur.com/VInbE8V.png (Score Report)
https://i.imgur.com/GFdR6fh.png (Explanation of Scores)

Some context:

MPT: I thought I did ok. But you get a "20" for nothing (see explanation), and anything 30-40 = garbage. No surprise considering I basically didn't do many practice MPTs.

MEE: I was typing along, and had finished my first essay over time (note: never go over time). As I'm typed my second essay, I inadvertently changed my typing language (via some keyboard command). I then lost 10 minutes because the ExamSoft person had to figure out how to change it back to English. My timing was completely destroyed and it shows; two 40-45 (basically 'eh' essays) and two stinkers are not going to help your score.

Also, at least one of my later essay scores is inflated. At the end because most people run out of time, so what constitutes as a "45" (or 40, etc.) is going to be different. Due to the curve, graders are more "generous" with points. So my essay scores were actually worse. To drive home the point of how bad my other essays were, I remember writing a four sentence paragraph for the Secured essay and even less for the conflicts essay. The bar for getting "40" is pretty low.

MBE: Most of my (consistent) prep was for the MBE. I actually thought I'd get in the 130s. Obviously carried my score

So, even with garbage MPTs and almost all MEEs being subpar (via catastrophe), a decent MBE can get you to (or close to) 266. There is hope

My $.02

[stephcurry30]

Initial states' pass rates aren't encouraging. This is going to be rough to navigate the coming days.

Yeah, with a 132 national MBE median, this is going to be a complete bloodbath. I'm freaked out now

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's definitely not good, BUT, I failed NY by 4 points last July w/ a 131 MBE and definitely was below average on at least 1/2 of the MEE. 1 MPT was substantial above average & the other was basically below average by the same amt. of points, so that was a wash for me...

Anyway, point: I don't know that a 132 average MBE is necessarily a death sentence unless you know that you royally fucked up like half the MEE or something. It may not put you in the 280s, but the 266 seems do-able. (emphasis added)

It's definitely doable. When you miss by that much, you could've taken it on a different day and passed. That's not on you. Mine is a pretty much a similar story.

I've included mine from July for those who haven't seen what a score report looks like (also

https://i.imgur.com/VInbE8V.png (Score Report)
https://i.imgur.com/GFdR6fh.png (Explanation of Scores)

Some context:

MPT: I thought I did ok. But you get a "20" for nothing (see explanation), and anything 30-40 = garbage. No surprise considering I basically didn't do many practice MPTs.

MEE: I was typing along, and had finished my first essay over time (note: never go over time). As I'm typed my second essay, I inadvertently changed my typing language (via some keyboard command). I then lost 10 minutes because the ExamSoft person had to figure out how to change it back to English. My timing was completely destroyed and it shows; two 40-45 (basically 'eh' essays) and two stinkers are not going to help your score.

Also, at least one of my later essay scores is inflated. At the end because most people run out of time, so what constitutes as a "45" (or 40, etc.) is going to be different. Due to the curve, graders are more "generous" with points. So my essay scores were actually worse. To drive home the point of how bad my other essays were, I remember writing a four sentence paragraph for the Secured essay and even less for the conflicts essay. The bar for getting "40" is pretty low.

MBE: Most of my (consistent) prep was for the MBE. I actually thought I'd get in the 130s. Obviously carried my score

So, even with garbage MPTs and almost all MEEs being subpar (via catastrophe), a decent MBE can get you to (or close to) 266. There is hope

My $.02

Thank you very much for posting this. This was unbelievably helpful for a person waiting on their score like me, and I appreciate how much info you included here. Hope February went well for you (if you retook it this cycle). Cheers!

[b290]

Thank you very much for posting this. This was unbelievably helpful for a person waiting on their score like me, and I appreciate how much info you included here. Hope February went well for you (if you retook it this cycle). Cheers!

Thanks Cheers to you as well! I did retake it this cycle. On the one hand, I took it again bec with a higher score, I could join my buddy’s firm in WA (req a 270) - and obv to pass this stupid test. Also the process for NY is super cheap ($375 covers your character & fitness, while you’re exempt from bar dues and CLEs for the first 2 years). Even if you have to take the MPRE and your NYLE, it’s very reasonable. Once you have everything together, it’s actually relatively quick.

On the other hand, not passing Feb just means I’ll do the UBE xfer. Considering my career options, that’s viable - although massively more expensive. There’s no point in testing further when I could finish what I went to school for. The government also wants me to pay back more student loan money

As for the info, you’re welcome Most of the essay info comes from a book: “What Not to Write” that I read before that exam. Although the book’s written for the pre-UBE NY test, it was still enlightening (as BOLE has kept to the same grading) You could see the general trend for any answer that got 50+ pts - organization. Also, since the old NY exam had a lot more time to write answers (it had 5 essays, and only 1 MPT), the UBE doesn’t allow for flowery prose unless you type 60+ WPM. That’s to your advantage.

I’ve been in your shoes, waiting is no fun. I’m paying it forward for all my TLS lurking

My $.02

[northwood]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

[meat tornado]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

Ugh praying that this is something I have to worry about

[b290]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

REALLY?!? That’s good to know. Are they discounted for new attorneys? 32 credits sounds steep - thinking about the cost (esp if your firm/employer isn’t paying for it)

CLEs are definitely a great idea for new attorneys, but I’m already shuddering at the cost (even @ $100 a piece)

My $.02

[kc128]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

REALLY?!? That’s good to know. Are they discounted for new attorneys? 32 credits sounds steep - thinking about the cost (esp if your firm/employer isn’t paying for it)

CLEs are definitely a great idea for new attorneys, but I’m already shuddering at the cost (even @ $100 a piece)

My $.02

Lots of bar associations in NY offer free CLEs (up to a certain # of credits, presumably) to recently admitted attorneys! Thanks for sharing your info! Glad to see I'm not alone!

[rkreymer]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

REALLY?!? That’s good to know. Are they discounted for new attorneys? 32 credits sounds steep - thinking about the cost (esp if your firm/employer isn’t paying for it)

CLEs are definitely a great idea for new attorneys, but I’m already shuddering at the cost (even @ $100 a piece)

My $.02

Lots of bar associations in NY offer free CLEs (up to a certain # of credits, presumably) to recently admitted attorneys! Thanks for sharing your info! Glad to see I'm not alone!

If one is admitted in more than one state, CLEs are shared? or does one must take separate CLEs for each state?

[northwood]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

REALLY?!? That’s good to know. Are they discounted for new attorneys? 32 credits sounds steep - thinking about the cost (esp if your firm/employer isn’t paying for it)

CLEs are definitely a great idea for new attorneys, but I’m already shuddering at the cost (even @ $100 a piece)

My $.02

Lots of bar associations in NY offer free CLEs (up to a certain # of credits, presumably) to recently admitted attorneys! Thanks for sharing your info! Glad to see I'm not alone!

If one is admitted in more than one state, CLEs are shared? or does one must take separate CLEs for each state?

Go to nycourts.gov and look around. Try breakdown the CLEvrequirements ( you need a certain amount of credits for ethics, professional practice, legal skills and a diversity credit).

[hellaperla]

Thank you very much for posting this. This was unbelievably helpful for a person waiting on their score like me, and I appreciate how much info you included here. Hope February went well for you (if you retook it this cycle). Cheers!

Thanks Cheers to you as well! I did retake it this cycle. On the one hand, I took it again bec with a higher score, I could join my buddy’s firm in WA (req a 270) - and obv to pass this stupid test. Also the process for NY is super cheap ($375 covers your character & fitness, while you’re exempt from bar dues and CLEs for the first 2 years). Even if you have to take the MPRE and your NYLE, it’s very reasonable. Once you have everything together, it’s actually relatively quick.

On the other hand, not passing Feb just means I’ll do the UBE xfer. Considering my career options, that’s viable - although massively more expensive. There’s no point in testing further when I could finish what I went to school for. The government also wants me to pay back more student loan money

As for the info, you’re welcome Most of the essay info comes from a book: “What Not to Write” that I read before that exam. Although the book’s written for the pre-UBE NY test, it was still enlightening (as BOLE has kept to the same grading) You could see the general trend for any answer that got 50+ pts - organization. Also, since the old NY exam had a lot more time to write answers (it had 5 essays, and only 1 MPT), the UBE doesn’t allow for flowery prose unless you type 60+ WPM. That’s to your advantage.

I’ve been in your shoes, waiting is no fun. I’m paying it forward for all my TLS lurking

My $.02

I just want to thank you for all your helpful posts here so far. The wait is really wracking my nerves especially since it's so near now! Going here and seeing that other people are in the same boat as me kind of makes me feel better. xx

[Jaw1990]

I’m feeling so worried and nervous at this point in time. I took the July 2017 bar and fail by 7 points. I’m really hoping I pass this time.

[b290]

Just an FYI newly admitted attorneys in NY (admired within 2 years) must do 16 CLE credits each of the first 2 years...

REALLY?!? That’s good to know. Are they discounted for new attorneys? 32 credits sounds steep - thinking about the cost (esp if your firm/employer isn’t paying for it)

CLEs are definitely a great idea for new attorneys, but I’m already shuddering at the cost (even @ $100 a piece)

My $.02

Lots of bar associations in NY offer free CLEs (up to a certain # of credits, presumably) to recently admitted attorneys! Thanks for sharing your info! Glad to see I'm not alone!

If one is admitted in more than one state, CLEs are shared? or does one must take separate CLEs for each state?

Go to nycourts.gov and look around. Try breakdown the CLEvrequirements ( you need a certain amount of credits for ethics, professional practice, legal skills and a diversity credit).

Thanks for the info! Really appreciated!

Northwood, how does it feel to be on the other side? Any advice to us, the uninitiated?

Eagerly awaiting advice (and war stories)

My $.02

[JustHawkin]

What day are we thinking for releasing scores?

[Simsimjo]

Hello everyone,

I am encountering an issue for violating a rule stated in the instructions given by the board administration during the 2018 February session. I was charged for reviewing my notes on my computer before the exam started (approximately 30 min before the essays part). Someone reported me. I was sincerely not aware that « no studying beyond the checkpoint » included watching my notes on the computer (and thought it was only about not bringing your physical notes from outside to the examination room). I am a foreign student from France, kind of lost and panicked by this notice, as my resultats will be withheld until the end of the proceedings and that other sanctions may be taken such as disqualification or reduction of my final score. I have 30 days to answer (whether admit or deny) and then the Board will have to rule on my answer and decide whether to dismiss or not.
Does anybody here have already encountered the same situation or know someone that does? Thank you so much for your answers, that I hope will help to relax and figure it out what I should do!

[northwood]

I vividly remember that the last 2-3 weeks before results came out to be absolute worst, like I gave myself an ulcer bad -full of stress. I got my results in the middle of the night ( after a Monday night football game) checked my phone at 150am when a bunch of law school friends sent text messages asking if I passed or not. Saw the email, picked up my heart, poured two shots of alcohol and opened it up ( ( I was either drinking for joy or drinking for sorrow) it was a tremendous relief to see that I passed. All of the attorneys at work knew results were soon coming so when I walked into work with a big ol smile in my face and a hop in my step they knew that I passed.

All in all no matter what happens, it’s just a test that you can retake. It doesn’t define you unless you let it. Do t let it define you either way.

Practice itself is great but can be stressful/ overheming , especially when you start out. Get a good mentor/ join an association of recent admits to help murk your way through it . It gets easier over time, and you will pick bings up, even if you don’t realize it.


At lest for the UBE i think if you score well enough for one state you Can say that you are admitted there ( when I tomboy it was NY only).

Chin up you can get though this!!!

[gladiator0flaw11]

Anyone think the results will be released in early May or is it pretty much definitely within these last two weeks of April? Lastly, if anyone has the file sizes for pass and fail attachments please share. I'd prefer to know immediately based on the attachment size if I'm hitting delete and sitting for Florida in July or passed and possibly staying in the area despite me still having a desire to relocate to Florida.

[animalpeople]

Anyone think the results will be released in early May or is it pretty much definitely within these last two weeks of April?

Given the last day to register for the July 2018 bar is April 30th, I would bet on it being released within these last two weeks of April.

[TheJuryMustDie]

Hello everyone,

I am encountering an issue for violating a rule stated in the instructions given by the board administration during the 2018 February session. I was charged for reviewing my notes on my computer before the exam started (approximately 30 min before the essays part). Someone reported me. I was sincerely not aware that « no studying beyond the checkpoint » included watching my notes on the computer (and thought it was only about not bringing your physical notes from outside to the examination room). I am a foreign student from France, kind of lost and panicked by this notice, as my resultats will be withheld until the end of the proceedings and that other sanctions may be taken such as disqualification or reduction of my final score. I have 30 days to answer (whether admit or deny) and then the Board will have to rule on my answer and decide whether to dismiss or not.
Does anybody here have already encountered the same situation or know someone that does? Thank you so much for your answers, that I hope will help to relax and figure it out what I should do!

Well, I think you have your defence in your comment. Whether it is convincing and compelling enough to get you off the hook is another matter. Your only defence appears to be that you misunderstood the rule as far as accessing materials on your computer prior to the exam actually commencing. The bad news is; this sort of rule violation doesn't require you to have the intent to violate the rule. Think strict liability.

I was told about a candidate retaking Feb. after her July results were cancelled despite passing because she did not immediately drop her pen after time was called! I shudder at their ruthlessness! I hope you get through this though. Ensure that your defence is as compelling as it can be. Good luck!

[b290]

Anyone think the results will be released in early May or is it pretty much definitely within these last two weeks of April?

Given the last day to register for the July 2018 bar is April 30th, I would bet on it being released within these last two weeks of April.

Right date, wrong reason. The 4/30 deadline is for July’s first-time takers - for those waiting for results, an entirely different schedule applies. The real deadline is the filing one for the 4th Department. If applicants there miss it, there’s no other swear-in until 2019. That mainly affects takers of this past February exam, and a late release would disadvantage them. See below:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... #p10303748

if anyone has the file sizes for pass and fail attachments please share. I'd prefer to know immediately based on the attachment size if I'm hitting delete and sitting for Florida in July or passed and possibly staying in the area despite me still having a desire to relocate to Florida.

It used to be that passing email attachment Was much smaller (passing emails didn’t give you a score report), but the with the UBE switch, and even the different PDF types now, it’s hard to tell.

My $.02

[gladiator0flaw11]

Anyone think the results will be released in early May or is it pretty much definitely within these last two weeks of April?

Given the last day to register for the July 2018 bar is April 30th, I would bet on it being released within these last two weeks of April.

Right date, wrong reason. The 4/30 deadline is for July’s first-time takers - for those waiting for results, an entirely different schedule applies. The real deadline is the filing one for the 4th Department. If applicants there miss it, there’s no other swear-in until 2019. That mainly affects takers of this past February exam, and a late release would disadvantage them. See below:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... #p10303748

if anyone has the file sizes for pass and fail attachments please share. I'd prefer to know immediately based on the attachment size if I'm hitting delete and sitting for Florida in July or passed and possibly staying in the area despite me still having a desire to relocate to Florida.

It used to be that passing email attachment Was much smaller (passing emails didn’t give you a score report), but the with the UBE switch, and even the different PDF types now, it’s hard to tell.

My $.02

So everyone has the same subject line and attachment size, only way to know is to open it as soon as it comes in I guess. I'm just hoping for a high enough MBE score that I can even transfer it to another jurisdiction if I qualify. The mean was a 132 that's pretty scary for the average MBE score. High MBE use to mean auto pass.

[b290]

So everyone has the same subject line and attachment size, only way to know is to open it as soon as it comes in I guess. I'm just hoping for a high enough MBE score that I can even transfer it to another jurisdiction if I qualify. The mean was a 132 that's pretty scary for the average MBE score. High MBE use to mean auto pass.

Pretty much. High MBE is still autopass, just a bit harder to get that high MBE. Also remember what an “average” means - half also scored 133 (which is pretty much what you need to xfer it where allowed) and above. There’s hope.

What did you use to prep for the MBE? Also, are you thinking about elsewhere? Just curious.

My $.02

[Amylaw]

Quick question ....
When you log in to your BOLE account while waiting for results do you have the option to register for the UBE or is the registration link de-activated until results are out?

[TheJuryMustDie]

Quick question ....
When you log in to your BOLE account while waiting for results do you have the option to register for the UBE or is the registration link de-activated until results are out?

The link to register is active regardless of whether results are out or not.

[Amylaw]

Quick question ....
When you log in to your BOLE account while waiting for results do you have the option to register for the UBE or is the registration link de-activated until results are out?

The link to register is active regardless of whether results are out or not.

Thank you !!