July 2015 MBE Scores/Results Forum

[osbarca]

Passed Oregon! Hugely relieved. The MBE kicked my ass... Felt horrible.

[tianziwansui]

So, given that the MBE was below 140 for July, should we just be looking at typical February rates for our states as a normal guesstimate, excluding repeaters maybe?

[PJP]

Passed Oregon! Hugely relieved. The MBE kicked my ass... Felt horrible.

Cheers to you. Happy Friday!!!

[jlanky]

Passed in Utah (UBE state). 154.9 MBE scaled.

I would say I averaged around 70-75% on practice tests. That said, I am not a "game day performer" when it comes to multiple choice. I know this from taking many standardized tests throughout the years and always scoring lower than my practice average. So I would not relate my practice score to actual score to any scale.

The rest of my info likely doesn't matter or is not applicable. This is my second bar exam. Passed in NC in Feb. 2010 on first try. Used Ameribar back then. Used the same 2010 materials this time around (but also bought Ameribar's Civ Pro outline). I am not a classroom/lecture learner, so Barbri or other courses would have been worthless and only to have access to the materials. I would rather sit and study by myself all day than sit through lectures.

I did not think the MBE was more difficult than 2010. However, when I walked out in 2010, I felt terrible (as terrible as people are describing this time around). I walked out this time thinking it was hard, but also expecting it to be difficult, so I did not feel as horrible. I was able to know that there were just going to be questions like I had never seen before and did not dwell on them. I have no recollection regarding a string of "D" answers in the AM, but as has been pointed out, there are many different versions of the exam. Not something I would notice anyways.

[Blessedassurance]

I think Barbri's preparation was adequate.

It's true that the actual MBE feels way harder than the Barbri ones, but then a prior taker had predicted that would be the case and the majority would still end up improving on their barbri score. That was true for me (and others, I'm sure).

[robinhoodOO]

Edited: Goofed on reading email regarding scores

[zot1]

THIS JUST IN: There has been some confusion and disagreement over whether MBE scores are scaled by each state or on a national level by the NCBE. I can confirm that at least some states scale MBE scores on the state level.

I won't disclose the name of the source. Essentially, this individual took the July bar exam in 2 jurisdictions (same MBE, obviously). However, they received different scaled scores from each jurisdictions/state.

Update: Also, I've received more scores/information to add to the Google doc, but I won't get around to updating it until Sunday or Monday. I'm also considering creating a graph to chart information and accompany the spreadsheet. I'll post early next week if I can manage something with my limited chart-creating skills

And, if you've posted data to have entered in the forum, please PM the information to make it easier to keep track. THANK YOU, and CONGRATS TO THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED! Those with bad news, I'm more than confident people are able to tweak studying habits to correct where they went wrong.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

I'm confused, did they use only one MBE score and then two jurisdictions gave him different scores? Otherwise he could have just done better in one than another.

[jrjd]

First-time poster/first-time bar taker here. Registered just to share my results -- passed with a 296 combined (MBE 144) in a 50/30/20 jurisdiction.

How I prepared: I worked full-time during bar prep, didn't finish all of Barbri (MPQs or final refresher), stopped watching videos during the end, read through the workshop answers but only watched a couple of workshop lectures, spent VERY little time on the MEE topics but outlined a bunch of essays near the end (but kept getting non-passing scores), only submitted one essay for grading, slept 8 hours every night except for one all-nighter near the end. Scored around 105-108 on the Barbri mid-term and got anywhere from 40%-60% on MPQ subjects by the very end.

Exam: I guessed between two choices most of the time and ran out of time on both sections/had to blind guess on the last 5 or 10 just to answer in time. I honestly think I was just a decent guesser because I don't know how the hell I didn't totally bomb it. I felt sick about the essays. Felt super confident about the MPTs but was bummed since they are only 20% of the final score.

Thoughts: 1) I must be a decent guesser on multiple choice, and 2) fortunately I was familiar enough with all the MEE topics tested (any other topic would probably have sunk me).

If you have any questions, send me a message. (This is as detailed as I want to be on here.)

[robinhoodOO]

Edited re error

[lushes3]

Honestly, that whole spiel from the NCBE about law students getting dumber makes me feel like Ukrainians of the 1930s felt when the Soviet Union told them they were starving because they couldn't grow grain fast enough. Why not make a test that one can adequately study for? The NCBE knows that law schools -even first year classes- don't teach a curriculum designed around the bar exam and that law professors teach whatever the hell they want, so they have no reason to believe a law degree is adequate preparation (and can safely assume that in most cases it isn't). In other words, they know 100% that your Bar Prep test company teaches you what's on the test, and should anticipate that testing away from bar prep materials is going to guarantee a drop in pass rates. The mock display of dismay is ridiculous. The mbe probably isn't *harder* than previous years, its just that more people were less prepared because the bar prep companies couldn't prepare them. If the NCBE wants law schools to prepare students for the bar so they can test on general knowledge acquired in law school than it should work with the ABA to design a curriculum that law schools must teach, simple as that...

[anon sequitur]

Well, if people are doing worse on the experimental questions that NCBE uses to equate the test to previous years, then they have a point. I think people need to remember that standards really have dropped significantly, and people who literally could not get into an ABA approved law school 10 years ago are getting in. This doesn't really mean much for top 50 or maybe even top 100 schools. But that's going to amount to a serious drag on the bottom of the class at the worst law schools. The *median* admit at the worst law schools is a 145/2.9, those are people who would not have gotten in at all before the drop in applicants. It would be very peculiar if that didn't lead to lower MBE scores nationally.

[BBPorter]

Passed in Oregon.

I took Barbri and worked ~30 hours per week up until the final 2 weeks. Again, OR doesn't release scores, but I can offer that I felt absolutely awful about the MBE, very confident about the essays, and split on the 2 MPTs. I scored a 133 raw on the midterm, and 70/100 on the refresher.

Update: I also found the AM session to be more difficult than the PM session. Also, I did not notice any string of D answers -- reading all the comments had me a little worried, but even if I did have a long string I could have overlooked it, as I bubbled my choice after each question instead of bubbling 10-20 at a time as I know most people do.

Thanks to all on the thread -- it really helped the waiting. My absolute best to all takers, pass or fail.

[legal10101]

THIS JUST IN: There has been some confusion and disagreement over whether MBE scores are scaled by each state or on a national level by the NCBE. I can confirm that at least some states scale MBE scores on the state level.

I won't disclose the name of the source. Essentially, this individual took the July bar exam in 2 jurisdictions (same MBE, obviously). However, they received different scaled scores from each jurisdictions/state.

Update: Also, I've received more scores/information to add to the Google doc, but I won't get around to updating it until Sunday or Monday. I'm also considering creating a graph to chart information and accompany the spreadsheet. I'll post early next week if I can manage something with my limited chart-creating skills

And, if you've posted data to have entered in the forum, please PM the information to make it easier to keep track. THANK YOU, and CONGRATS TO THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED! Those with bad news, I'm more than confident people are able to tweak studying habits to correct where they went wrong.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

I'm curious. Will your source provide the MBE scaled for each and which testing period he/she took?

[941law]

Honestly, that whole spiel from the NCBE about law students getting dumber makes me feel like Ukrainians of the 1930s felt when the Soviet Union told them they were starving because they couldn't grow grain fast enough. Why not make a test that one can adequately study for? The NCBE knows that law schools -even first year classes- don't teach a curriculum designed around the bar exam and that law professors teach whatever the hell they want, so they have no reason to believe a law degree is adequate preparation (and can safely assume that in most cases it isn't). In other words, they know 100% that your Bar Prep test company teaches you what's on the test, and should anticipate that testing away from bar prep materials is going to guarantee a drop in pass rates. The mock display of dismay is ridiculous. The mbe probably isn't *harder* than previous years, its just that more people were less prepared because the bar prep companies couldn't prepare them. If the NCBE wants law schools to prepare students for the bar so they can test on general knowledge acquired in law school than it should work with the ABA to design a curriculum that law schools must teach, simple as that...

I don't know. Years ago law school was not even in the realm of possibility for an average student and seemed too daunting until more schools started viewing it as strictly a business and more students started considering it a reality.

Undergrad and the LSAT are not hard to game the system. You can push yourself hard enough to graduate law school. Now that leaves the bar exam thus the declining results are not surprising to me because the bar exam can't really be gamed. It takes work. If you are far away from passing at the start of your preparation then you will fail because there isn't enough time. I also see why failing a second time is plausible as well.

[zot1]

THIS JUST IN: There has been some confusion and disagreement over whether MBE scores are scaled by each state or on a national level by the NCBE. I can confirm that at least some states scale MBE scores on the state level.

I won't disclose the name of the source. Essentially, this individual took the July bar exam in 2 jurisdictions (same MBE, obviously). However, they received different scaled scores from each jurisdictions/state.

Update: Also, I've received more scores/information to add to the Google doc, but I won't get around to updating it until Sunday or Monday. I'm also considering creating a graph to chart information and accompany the spreadsheet. I'll post early next week if I can manage something with my limited chart-creating skills

And, if you've posted data to have entered in the forum, please PM the information to make it easier to keep track. THANK YOU, and CONGRATS TO THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED! Those with bad news, I'm more than confident people are able to tweak studying habits to correct where they went wrong.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

I'm confused, did they use only one MBE score and then two jurisdictions gave him different scores? Otherwise he could have just done better in one than another.

Same MBE used for each and different essay sections. For example, Tuesday would be essay section in State A, Wed would be MBE's (which apply to both states), and Thursday would be essay section in State B.

And, yes: This individual received 2 different scaled MBE scores. Basically, NCBE must provide the raw score, and then the states add for their respective scaled score.

Hopefully that makes more sense, but the short of it is that some states (can't confirm all, obviously) do their own MBE scaling.

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

[robinhoodOO]

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

Edited re error

[nyny]

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

133 in Colorado and 135 in Utah. So, 2 points. That may not seem like much, but it could be the difference between pass or fail.

Gotta figure out a way to incorporate the information too :/

So the 139.9 national average for the MBE that is floating around is also a scaled amount, right? Or is that the raw number given to states to then scale it? Im just a bit confused on how they got to 139.9 instead of a whole number like 140 unless they are scaling.

[Mountain101]

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

133 in Colorado and 135 in Utah. So, 2 points. That may not seem like much, but it could be the difference between pass or fail.

Gotta figure out a way to incorporate the information too :/

Wait, is this data from a prior year? My understanding is that Colorado hasn't released any results for July 2015. Please clarify.

[zot1]

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

133 in Colorado and 135 in Utah. So, 2 points. That may not seem like much, but it could be the difference between pass or fail.

Gotta figure out a way to incorporate the information too :/

Wait, is this data from a prior year? My understanding is that Colorado hasn't released any results for July 2015. Please clarify.

I would like to know this too. My understand is that Colorado releases October 6th.

[robinhoodOO]

Gotcha! Would your source share how wide the range between the two scores was?

133 in Colorado and 135 in Utah. So, 2 points. That may not seem like much, but it could be the difference between pass or fail.

Gotta figure out a way to incorporate the information too :/

Wait, is this data from a prior year? My understanding is that Colorado hasn't released any results for July 2015. Please clarify.

I would like to know this too. My understand is that Colorado releases October 6th.

It's because I misread his message :/

He took CO last year and UT this year--OOPS. I'm gonna edit the comments to correct the mistake when I get to my laptop. Complete brain fart

Sorry guys

[Mainecoon]

I passed the Utah Bar with a 166 on the MBE while working 50 hours a week until the last two weeks. I had limited time to study, but generally kept up with the BarBri schedule except for the essays and the MPTs. This strategy was somewhat risky, since it is a separate skill to recall rules wholesale for the essays instead of ticking through the multiple choice answers for the MBE. I'm a good writer and went to a top 25 law school, but my scores demonstrate how critical it is to practice essays and the MPT in the actual format of the exam instead of skimming over practice tests and the model answers. My MBE scaled score was 20 points higher than my scaled essay score, but given my time constraints I thought the MBE warranted most of my focus. As an aside, I practiced corporate law at a big firm in a jurisdiction other than Utah before moving to Utah, and the bar exam was a ridiculous waste of my summer. I hope in the future law students need only pass one bar exam to practice law in all fifty states.

[kjartan]

Honestly, that whole spiel from the NCBE about law students getting dumber makes me feel like Ukrainians of the 1930s felt when the Soviet Union told them they were starving because they couldn't grow grain fast enough. Why not make a test that one can adequately study for? The NCBE knows that law schools -even first year classes- don't teach a curriculum designed around the bar exam and that law professors teach whatever the hell they want, so they have no reason to believe a law degree is adequate preparation (and can safely assume that in most cases it isn't). In other words, they know 100% that your Bar Prep test company teaches you what's on the test, and should anticipate that testing away from bar prep materials is going to guarantee a drop in pass rates. The mock display of dismay is ridiculous. The mbe probably isn't *harder* than previous years, its just that more people were less prepared because the bar prep companies couldn't prepare them. If the NCBE wants law schools to prepare students for the bar so they can test on general knowledge acquired in law school than it should work with the ABA to design a curriculum that law schools must teach, simple as that...

I don't know. Years ago law school was not even in the realm of possibility for an average student and seemed too daunting until more schools started viewing it as strictly a business and more students started considering it a reality.

Undergrad and the LSAT are not hard to game the system. You can push yourself hard enough to graduate law school. Now that leaves the bar exam thus the declining results are not surprising to me because the bar exam can't really be gamed. It takes work. If you are far away from passing at the start of your preparation then you will fail because there isn't enough time. I also see why failing a second time is plausible as well.

Nah, the NCBE is being disingenuous by blaming students for declining scores when it's obvious that they're changing the test.

[Arbinshire]

My understand[ing] is that Colorado releases October 6th.

October 8th, not the 6th.

[osbarca]

As an aside, I practiced corporate law at a big firm in a jurisdiction other than Utah before moving to Utah, and the bar exam was a ridiculous waste of my summer. I hope in the future law students need only pass one bar exam to practice law in all fifty states.

I couldn't agree with this more. I was CA big law (litigation) for 7 years before moving to Oregon this spring. I am certain that I am "minimally competent" to be a lawyer, but still had to go through this stupid exercise -- again -- to practice here. I was not at all confident that I passed Oregon (and in fact thought I failed), despite having had years of practice under my belt.

The only part of the bar that reflects my real life work is the MPT. So if they really wanted to make sure I was qualified, that should have been the whole test. The worst is the non-transfer of my prior MBE score. That painful exam was a waste of my time, energy, anxiety, and money... there was no way I could have passed that thing without dropping cash on a prep course. Meanwhile, I already had a caseload in Oregon, for which my firm had to pay all of my pro hac admissions. I truly feel I should have been able to transfer my CA license, maybe complete another round of moral fitness probing, and then get on with it.

[PJP]

As an aside, I practiced corporate law at a big firm in a jurisdiction other than Utah before moving to Utah, and the bar exam was a ridiculous waste of my summer. I hope in the future law students need only pass one bar exam to practice law in all fifty states.

I couldn't agree with this more. I was CA big law (litigation) for 7 years before moving to Oregon this spring. I am certain that I am "minimally competent" to be a lawyer, but still had to go through this stupid exercise -- again -- to practice here. I was not at all confident that I passed Oregon (and in fact thought I failed), despite having had years of practice under my belt.

The only part of the bar that reflects my real life work is the MPT. So if they really wanted to make sure I was qualified, that should have been the whole test. The worst is the non-transfer of my prior MBE score. That painful exam was a waste of my time, energy, anxiety, and money... there was no way I could have passed that thing without dropping cash on a prep course. Meanwhile, I already had a caseload in Oregon, for which my firm had to pay all of my pro hac admissions. I truly feel I should have been able to transfer my CA license, maybe complete another round of moral fitness probing, and then get on with it.

The fact that I'm still talking and thinking about this bar exam shows me what great pain this was. I'm still emotionally hung up on it. I too have been practicing in CA for a number of years and this bar exam was a meaningless and very painful hurdle I had to get over to practice in Oregon. I'm positive studying for a bar exam one more time didn't make me a better lawyer than I was 3 months ago. Good thing Oregon has reciprocity with 33 states so no more bar exams in the future for me I'm pretty sure.