Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[071816]

So in law school I basically studied for exams by finding old outlines and reading them once before the exam. Studying for the bar is going to be hard.

Nah. You're free to just use the outlines they give you and memorize the shit out of em if that's what works. There's no one size fits all way to do this.

[j1987]

Okay, i didn't know if there was a certain place to look to see if we've been sent them. You requested yours early? How did you do that? I am pretty sure my jurisdiction (NJ/NY) doesn't have them yet.

I think another way to get the summary outlines is if you've been assigned the task "Review XXX (Summary Outline)." Clicking on that will lead you to the summary outline for that topic. But review tasks are not available in flex, so you have to wait for them to assign it to you.

I emailed the support team with a request for the summary outlines. Hopefully they can provide them in advance of me having to "Review XXX."

For those taking NY/NJ bar, the summary outlines will be emailed later this week.

[klbisho4]

Just checked my email for the summary outlines thinking I was going to find something concise. Man even those are long, granted they are a 1/4 of the long ones. The torts one is 15 pages, but my own torts outline is 5. I'm getting sick of all of this and i'm tired of spending money on ink cartridges and printer paper.

[071816]

Just checked my email for the summary outlines thinking I was going to find something concise. Man even those are long, granted they are a 1/4 of the long ones. The torts one is 15 pages, but my own torts outline is 5. I'm getting sick of all of this and i'm tired of spending money on ink cartridges and printer paper.

you're printing out the outlines?

[Genuine4ps]

So in law school I basically studied for exams by finding old outlines and reading them once before the exam. Studying for the bar is going to be hard.

Did the same thing. Hope this isn't a bad approach for the bar.

[dudnaito]

4) Print out summary outline for every MBE and MEE subject (you might not have gotten a link yet, i just asked them for mine earlier cause i'm a bosssss). They should have either emailed it to you, or check under "my communications." Each jurisdiction seems to have a different timeline for when Themis decides to send these to you.


Where do we find the shorter outlines? I can't find them in Themis anywhere...

So depending on your state you might not have them yet. But do at least check under "my communications", the links to the summary outline may be in an email if your state is one that already received them (CA did).

Okay, i didn't know if there was a certain place to look to see if we've been sent them. You requested yours early? How did you do that? I am pretty sure my jurisdiction (NJ/NY) doesn't have them yet.

What do you mean? I asked them for it. I called them and gave them a rational explanation for why it would behoove them and benefit me to get it earlier.

[klbisho4]

Just checked my email for the summary outlines thinking I was going to find something concise. Man even those are long, granted they are a 1/4 of the long ones. The torts one is 15 pages, but my own torts outline is 5. I'm getting sick of all of this and i'm tired of spending money on ink cartridges and printer paper.

you're printing out the outlines?

Yeah i'm printing out the ones that you fill in while you watch the videos. Putting pen to paper helps me remember all of this stuff.

[klbisho4]

And what's the point of a 40 some page outline on professional responsibility? We already took the MPRE and should know this stuff. Plus it's only tested on the essays and all you need is probably 2 sentences about it.

[Genuine4ps]

And what's the point of a 40 some page outline on professional responsibility? We already took the MPRE and should know this stuff. Plus it's only tested on the essays and all you need is probably 2 sentences about it.

I learned a long time ago not to ask questions about this entire process. You'll drive yourself crazy.

[071816]

Just checked my email for the summary outlines thinking I was going to find something concise. Man even those are long, granted they are a 1/4 of the long ones. The torts one is 15 pages, but my own torts outline is 5. I'm getting sick of all of this and i'm tired of spending money on ink cartridges and printer paper.

you're printing out the outlines?

Yeah i'm printing out the ones that you fill in while you watch the videos. Putting pen to paper helps me remember all of this stuff.

oh ok that makes sense. I printed out a couple of those also.

[themis513]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

[d3sp]

What's up with the Contracts professor? His lectures seem to be tailored to kindergartners. His entire outline he refers to revocation/termination of an offer as squashing a caterpillar. Does this guy know we graduated from law school, and we are not in elementary school. It's incredibly annoying. Plus his analogies suck.

[Genuine4ps]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

That's concerning.

[d3sp]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

That's concerning.

I am pretty certain that their M/C questions are the ones that are released and for sale in the NCBEX website store. I emailed them about buying some of the old MBE's for extra practice, and this was the reply:

"As to the MBE questions, we provide over 2000 questions and we pay the NCBE to license every released question and provide it as part of our materials."

I wouldn't worry about it if you are hitting the averages.

[dudnaito]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

With all due respect, no one caused them to fail. Having said that, Kaplan Q's are considered by many to be the best approximation of the MBE. I also supplement my Themis Prep with Kaplan MBE Q's and AdaptiBar. I'm taking Illinois, so even a decent score on the MBE should allow me to pass even in lieu of a terrible MEE and MPT.. .not that I'm not studying for the latter 2. I think that's a combined 2,200-2,500 MBE questions accounting for some overlap in questions. That should be enough. Highly doubt the real test can throw a curveball I haven't seen by that point and even if they do, who cares, i just want to pass, not ace the exam.

[dudnaito]

And what's the point of a 40 some page outline on professional responsibility? We already took the MPRE and should know this stuff. Plus it's only tested on the essays and all you need is probably 2 sentences about it.

I'm not being critical of you; I'm just trying to be helpful. In light of that, you seem awfully negative. I'm posting this because i was annoyed too during the 1st week, but you learn to make it work for you and my productivity has skyrocketed after having a more positive outlook. I know Themis has weaknesses and glaring annoyances, but I can assure you BarBri isn't any better imho... I'm sure you're a smart guy/gal, so you'll use what they give you and make your own study plans that suit you best.

As for the outline on Professional Responsibility, you taking California? And also, not everyone has taken the MPRE. My MPRE is scheduled just a week or 2 after the Bar, so... i dunno.. maybe it's for r-tards like me?

[Kincade12]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

Themis' MBE questions are designed to be more difficult than the actual MBE questions. I have heard of multiple people saying that the actual MBE questions they encountered on the bar were not that bad because of seeing so many Themis questions.

I also know of a friend who scored a 162 on the MBE after taking Themis. He did almost all of the MBE practice questions offered in the course though.

[Kincade12]

And what's the point of a 40 some page outline on professional responsibility? We already took the MPRE and should know this stuff. Plus it's only tested on the essays and all you need is probably 2 sentences about it.

I would take a few PR practice essays before you think you know the subject. I recently took the MPRE as well but PR is pretty weird and its a lot different being able to spit out full rule statements than being able to circle one of four explained choices. The black letter law is not as clear.

[Lasers]

Just checked my email for the summary outlines thinking I was going to find something concise. Man even those are long, granted they are a 1/4 of the long ones. The torts one is 15 pages, but my own torts outline is 5. I'm getting sick of all of this and i'm tired of spending money on ink cartridges and printer paper.

you're printing out the outlines?

Yeah i'm printing out the ones that you fill in while you watch the videos. Putting pen to paper helps me remember all of this stuff.

oh ok that makes sense. I printed out a couple of those also.

are those lecture handouts actually useful?

i'm not even bothering with them and just drilling the summary outlines. do they provide information that can't be found elsewhere?

[j1987]

A friend that used Themis for NY/NJ said that the MBE questions were extremely similar to what she saw on the actual bar exam. Themis also uses old released multiple choice questions, according to their twitter account.

[Genuine4ps]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

With all due respect, no one caused them to fail. Having said that, Kaplan Q's are considered by many to be the best approximation of the MBE. I also supplement my Themis Prep with Kaplan MBE Q's and AdaptiBar. I'm taking Illinois, so even a decent score on the MBE should allow me to pass even in lieu of a terrible MEE and MPT.. .not that I'm not studying for the latter 2. I think that's a combined 2,200-2,500 MBE questions accounting for some overlap in questions. That should be enough. Highly doubt the real test can throw a curveball I haven't seen by that point and even if they do, who cares, i just want to pass, not ace the exam.

Why is that? If Themis and Kaplan are both using actual MBE questions, wouldn't they be the same? Or are you referring to the explanations?

ETA: I'm curious about something else you said. You mention that a decent score on the MBE will allow you to pass even with a not-so-good MEE and MPT. Is the MBE a particularly significant portion of the IL bar?

[071816]

i'm not even bothering with them and just drilling the summary outlines. do they provide information that can't be found elsewhere?

The only one I've found useful so far has been property. I don't think so. I just like the way the property one is organized and the lecturer has referenced it a lot. So I figured I'd use it as he lectures since I skipped reading the outlines.

[dudnaito]

i'm not even bothering with them and just drilling the summary outlines. do they provide information that can't be found elsewhere?[/quote]


The handouts are basically the middle ground between the massive outlines and the summary outlines. Summary outline is useful for memorization purposes (stuff that you should have for perfect recall for the essays), and the handouts, imho, are vital for the MBE.

The "outlines" (massive outlines) have way too much extraneous info., whereas the handouts are 90% filled with basic/essential material for MBE success. Either that, or if you insist on pushing on with just drilling the summary outlines, going through 100's of MBE questions per subject and their corresponding answer explanations should already teach you those rules listed in the handouts intuitively too. Whatever works for you

[klbisho4]

And what's the point of a 40 some page outline on professional responsibility? We already took the MPRE and should know this stuff. Plus it's only tested on the essays and all you need is probably 2 sentences about it.

I'm not being critical of you; I'm just trying to be helpful. In light of that, you seem awfully negative. I'm posting this because i was annoyed too during the 1st week, but you learn to make it work for you and my productivity has skyrocketed after having a more positive outlook. I know Themis has weaknesses and glaring annoyances, but I can assure you BarBri isn't any better imho... I'm sure you're a smart guy/gal, so you'll use what they give you and make your own study plans that suit you best.

As for the outline on Professional Responsibility, you taking California? And also, not everyone has taken the MPRE. My MPRE is scheduled just a week or 2 after the Bar, so... i dunno.. maybe it's for r-tards like me?

No worries I was definitely feeling negative this morning. I'm doing FL and it's week 3 for me so I've gone from 10 hr days to about 7 very productive hours. Good point about the MPRE though, my school required us to take it before a certain date so I got it done with earlier, but I am pretty sure you can take it after the Bar also.

[klbisho4]

What are everyone's thoughts about Themis' MBE questions? Most of my friends (themis and non-themis exam takers past and present) are telling me to buy the Kaplan red book for the MBE portion stating that Themis' MBE questions are not that great/caused them to fail/etc. Comments?

With all due respect, no one caused them to fail. Having said that, Kaplan Q's are considered by many to be the best approximation of the MBE. I also supplement my Themis Prep with Kaplan MBE Q's and AdaptiBar. I'm taking Illinois, so even a decent score on the MBE should allow me to pass even in lieu of a terrible MEE and MPT.. .not that I'm not studying for the latter 2. I think that's a combined 2,200-2,500 MBE questions accounting for some overlap in questions. That should be enough. Highly doubt the real test can throw a curveball I haven't seen by that point and even if they do, who cares, i just want to pass, not ace the exam.

Why is that? If Themis and Kaplan are both using actual MBE questions, wouldn't they be the same? Or are you referring to the explanations?

ETA: I'm curious about something else you said. You mention that a decent score on the MBE will allow you to pass even with a not-so-good MEE and MPT. Is the MBE a particularly significant portion of the IL bar?

I think Themis may take the released questions and write their own answers to them, because I've noticed on some of them they tell you the question is a non-licensed variation of the NCBE questions. They just seem different than the other practice MBE's I've taken. But I have been told also that if I can to acquire Kaplan's Redbook. I'm using BarBri's FL multiple choice questions to supplement Themis' state questions, and I am also using Adaptibar which I've found extremely helpful.