California Bar Exam (July 2014) thread Forum

[FutureInLaw]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

[adonai]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

According to barbri, average is like 126-128ish/190 raw. With that score, you'd need about 60-65s on everything to pass.

[james11]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

I think for most tests the magic number is 62.5% across the board. Meaning if you get a 125 raw mbe (62.5%) you need to average around 62-63 per essay/PT to pass on the first read.

[Cade McNown]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

According to barbri, average is like 126-128ish/190 raw. With that score, you'd need about 60-65s on everything to pass.

Just to be clear (you both probably understood this), I believe the underlined passing raw score is for the actual MBE. On Barbri's Simulated MBE today, Barbri says the average score last year was 114. So no reason to panic if you're not yet testing 125+ raw on the MBE.

[Rotor]

Anyone with experience at the Oakland Convention Center - are there clocks in the examination room? I'm wondering about timing myself for MBE day. I don't really want to have to go out and buy an analog watch or whatever, but I guess I will if there's nothing else there to keep track with...

No, there are no clocks in the room. Even if there were, they would have to be huge to be able to see them. Just go get an analog watch. I forgot mine on Day 1. Totally sucked. Spent the lunch hour looking around all the fine retail establishments in the area. Paid $30 for what should have been a $10 watch, but it was well worth it. I would have left even more of PT #1 unanswered if I hadn't had that watch.

[a male human]

You could also get a 4" by 4" clock, whatever that is. Apparently they're cheap.

[lmr]

Anyone start memorizing yet? I understand a majority of the material and am doing well on the MBE but I'm just freaking out at the fact that I don't have anything memorized. I spent the day re-reviewing the cmr for property thoroughly making sure I understand things and making notes in my critical pass set and doing 80 mbes from crim and prop and I feel like I'm not doing this right. I hate to say this but it's almost like i don't know how to study/ am I studying right? I've done 5 essays so far and none of them were purely closed book. Would I be hurting myself if I start memorizing my mbe subjects now? I'm so confused

[JJDancer]

Anyone start memorizing yet? I understand a majority of the material and am doing well on the MBE but I'm just freaking out at the fact that I don't have anything memorized. I spent the day re-reviewing the cmr for property thoroughly making sure I understand things and making notes in my critical pass set and doing 80 mbes from crim and prop and I feel like I'm not doing this right. I hate to say this but it's almost like i don't know how to study/ am I studying right? I've done 5 essays so far and none of them were purely closed book. Would I be hurting myself if I start memorizing my mbe subjects now? I'm so confused

You sound like you are doing fine.
I'm not sure what you mean by memorizing - if you're doing well on the MBE, you are clearly retaining a good chunk of material, which in a sense is memorizing the rules. If you mean making checklists/testing yourself on rule statements via flashcards or somethng then I don't think it's too early to do so.

[charcop]

Question: if we have an analog watch, can we take it off and place it on the desk by our computer? I have an analog watch but it's a pain to type in because of the band.

[LSATNightmares]

I think you are saying that analysis is more important than correct rule statements. If that is your point, you are generally wrong, but I guess it depends on specifics. If you hit all the issues, hit all the subissues, have great irac, clean format, but the rule statements themselves are worded slightly off, you could do fine. If this is the point you are making, then I don't disagree with you.

The problem with people who don't memorize correct rule statements is that they tend to miss subissues. You might hit the main issue, but your rule statement is off, leading you to miss elements in the rule, leading you to miss subissues, leading your rule statements in your subissues to be off or completely missing, leading to a low score on your essay. In addition, when people aren't sure about the rules/issues, they try to make up for it with lengthy analysis, hoping the graders overlook the missed issues/rules. I've seen this on many essays that score 50-55. So my main point is that you need to have all of the correct elements of a rule to score high, even if the wording is a bit off, because you will need to hit all the subissues and define the subissues. Also, correct IRAC format is key. So maybe we don't disagree with each other.

I would caution you against relying on the calbar website and the words of "graders and passers." The calbar website provides very limited examples of essays and you can't compare these essays with a range of scores to see what was done right/wrong. Also, people who passed the first time do not know why they passed or what they did right/wrong. They could have killed the MBE and/or PTs and failed every essay. They don't know. People who passed after repeating are usually better at critically advising at what needs to be done because they were able to look at their scores, analyze their strengths/weaknesses, and make corrections.

We are pretty much in agreement then. Yes, if you still hit the issues then you will be fine. If you miss issues then you are setting yourself up for failure, but a correct rule statement does not necessarily mean you will hit all of the issues.

Completely agree with the lengthy answers not being the way to go. Just put yourself in the shoes of the graders- who wants to read a long drawn out essay when you have hundreds to review?

As to the published essays, I was only using that to reference that essays with incorrect rule statements can still be passing essays. They choose to publish certain ones for a reason, and I believe (and have been told by others) that they publish these to show that you can still have a passing essay even if the rule statement is wrong.

My main point is that, while a "perfect" rule statement will help you write a better essay, it is not detrimental to your success. Hit the issues like you mentioned, analyze and argue the facts, and a 60 is easily obtained.

Thanks so much to you guys for responding to my question. I'll keep your points in mind!

[jarofsoup]

MPQ Property 3 Q 8:

Has anyone done this problem. How the hell can a tangible entrance into someone's property be a nuisance and not a trespass??

[a male human]

MPQ Property 3 Q 8:

Has anyone done this problem. How the hell can a tangible entrance into someone's property be a nuisance and not a trespass??

I don't have the question, but maybe I can offer some leads.

Trespass has to have an intentional act. Not an intention to trespass but an intention to enter another's land. Either way, if the person was negligent or reckless in entering the land (swerved into the land at a quick bend or something), can there be trespass? My guess is no.

On the other hand, nuisance is a substantial and unreasonable interference with use and enjoyment of one's possessed property. It can be negligent or abnormally dangerous activity. If D was negligent or reckless in entering the land, could it still cause an interference with use and enjoyment?

I don't know the facts, so these are just leads.

[adonai]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

According to barbri, average is like 126-128ish/190 raw. With that score, you'd need about 60-65s on everything to pass.

Just to be clear (you both probably understood this), I believe the underlined passing raw score is for the actual MBE. On Barbri's Simulated MBE today, Barbri says the average score last year was 114. So no reason to panic if you're not yet testing 125+ raw on the MBE.

Right. I think barbri says that if you're hitting their average on their mbe test, you will predictably hit the avg or better on the real mbe because barbri mbe questions are harder and barbri acknowledges that.

[hyc9598]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can anyone explain what a "good" score for the MBE is in California? And I still don't really get the difference between raw vs. scaled (why not just make the good score lower instead of adding arbitrary points to everyone's score?). And I'm too brain-dead after the simulated MBE to look it up.

Thanks!

According to barbri, average is like 126-128ish/190 raw. With that score, you'd need about 60-65s on everything to pass.

Just to be clear (you both probably understood this), I believe the underlined passing raw score is for the actual MBE. On Barbri's Simulated MBE today, Barbri says the average score last year was 114. So no reason to panic if you're not yet testing 125+ raw on the MBE.

Right. I think barbri says that if you're hitting their average on their mbe test, you will predictably hit the avg or better on the real mbe because barbri mbe questions are harder and barbri acknowledges that.

Everything is related with 1440. 1440 is 144. 144 is 129 or 130 (safely). It is 65 in essays (safely: actually it is 60). I do not know why they made 1000 or 2000 score. Most scores are based on 200 or 100. Perhaps 144 (72) is because it is 12 x 12? Anyway, the idea is 65 is the passing score whether it is mbe or writing. 65% scoring is the minimum. But in reality, generally, the trend is 62.5%. But the aim must be 65%. Also, because there are only 190 questions, perhaps 80% is the safest score.

[lmr]

Anyone know anything/had experience w about bar breaker by jeff adachi? Is it worth the money?
I've been using the bar code and have found it super helpful but it could use more variations of potential fact patterns esp for contracts and crim law.

[hyc9598]

California Probate Code Section 6110

Legal Research Home > California Laws > Probate Code > California Probate Code Section 6110

6110. (a) Except as provided in this part, a will shall be in
writing and satisfy the requirements of this section.
(b) The will shall be signed by one of the following:
(1) By the testator.
(2) In the testator's name by some other person in the testator's
presence and by the testator's direction.
(3) By a conservator pursuant to a court order to make a will
under Section 2580.
(c) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the will shall be
witnessed by being signed, during the testator's lifetime, by at
least two persons each of whom (A) being present at the same time,
witnessed either the signing of the will or the testator's
acknowledgment of the signature or of the will and (B) understand
that the instrument they sign is the testator's will.
(2) If a will was not executed in compliance with paragraph (1),
the will shall be treated as if it was executed in compliance with
that paragraph if the proponent of the will establishes by clear and
convincing evidence that, at the time the testator signed the will,
the testator intended the will to constitute the testator's will.

Q "Does (c)(2) apply to event that occurs after 2009 or 2012?"

[2807]

California Probate Code Section 6110

Legal Research Home > California Laws > Probate Code > California Probate Code Section 6110

6110. (a) Except as provided in this part, a will shall be in
writing and satisfy the requirements of this section.
(b) The will shall be signed by one of the following:
(1) By the testator.
(2) In the testator's name by some other person in the testator's
presence and by the testator's direction.
(3) By a conservator pursuant to a court order to make a will
under Section 2580.
(c) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the will shall be
witnessed by being signed, during the testator's lifetime, by at
least two persons each of whom (A) being present at the same time,
witnessed either the signing of the will or the testator's
acknowledgment of the signature or of the will and (B) understand
that the instrument they sign is the testator's will.
(2) If a will was not executed in compliance with paragraph (1),
the will shall be treated as if it was executed in compliance with
that paragraph if the proponent of the will establishes by clear and
convincing evidence that, at the time the testator signed the will,
the testator intended the will to constitute the testator's will.

Q "Does (c)(2) apply to event that occurs after 2009 or 2012?"

I do not know the date distinction that concerns you, and that is likely because it does not matter for your bar exam.

Just know this: In CA the court will not hold firmly to the "formality" requirements.

If there is "clear and convincing" evidence that the testator intended this to be his will, the court can still enforce it.

It is possible on the exam you will need to address this CA distinction.

[hyc9598]

California Probate Code Section 6110

Legal Research Home > California Laws > Probate Code > California Probate Code Section 6110

6110. (a) Except as provided in this part, a will shall be in
writing and satisfy the requirements of this section.
(b) The will shall be signed by one of the following:
(1) By the testator.
(2) In the testator's name by some other person in the testator's
presence and by the testator's direction.
(3) By a conservator pursuant to a court order to make a will
under Section 2580.
(c) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the will shall be
witnessed by being signed, during the testator's lifetime, by at
least two persons each of whom (A) being present at the same time,
witnessed either the signing of the will or the testator's
acknowledgment of the signature or of the will and (B) understand
that the instrument they sign is the testator's will.
(2) If a will was not executed in compliance with paragraph (1),
the will shall be treated as if it was executed in compliance with
that paragraph if the proponent of the will establishes by clear and
convincing evidence that, at the time the testator signed the will,
the testator intended the will to constitute the testator's will.

Q "Does (c)(2) apply to event that occurs after 2009 or 2012?"

I do not know the date distinction that concerns you, and that is likely because it does not matter for your bar exam.

Just know this: In CA the court will not hold firmly to the "formality" requirements.

If there is "clear and convincing" evidence that the testator intended this to be his will, the court can still enforce it.

It is possible on the exam you will need to address this CA distinction.

The reason why I asked was because some professor says it only applies to wills executed after 1/1/2012 regardless of when the testator dies. But in Barbri outlines, it says c/c standard of 6010 (c)(2) applies to the wills made after 1/1/2009. So, I guess Barbri is right. Right?

[hyc9598]

Do you guys know Chapman law library strictly enforce access policy? It says only the person with law school student id and driver's license will be allowed to study there if that person is not alumnus or barbri taker or professor or staff or attorney. I am afraid that they will ask for student id and I graduated. If you graduate, your id is invalid I guess. I do not want to study under the pressure of being kicked out or discovered when they suddenly ask you to show your id and you only have driver's license.

[charcop]

Watching the barbri lecture for CA Civ Pro. OH DEAR GOD PLEASE DON'T BE AN ESSAY.

[FutureInLaw]

Watching the barbri lecture for CA Civ Pro. OH DEAR GOD PLEASE DON'T BE AN ESSAY.

Seriously. Every time I learn a new topic, I wonder, "How the hell am I going to memorize all of this???" That's especially true when it's distinctions or brand new material for me.

[hyc9598]

<<barmax grading>>

Do you know how we can submit essay pt? (payment/send/email address).

[lisavj]

Barbri practice CPT (Farley) do I double the score my grader gave me or did I fail the sh!# outta the practice test?

[pkt63]

Barbri practice CPT (Farley) do I double the score my grader gave me or did I fail the sh!# outta the practice test?

Pretty sure you'd double it. It should say something about how good your score was (e.g. Mine said "Passing" on the page where I downloaded my comments, and I got a 65 as the score).

PSA: There's a thread for Barbri specific stuff over here...http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=230179

[LSATNightmares]

Watching the barbri lecture for CA Civ Pro. OH DEAR GOD PLEASE DON'T BE AN ESSAY.

I'm hoping we don't get CA Civil Procedure. I hate CA distinctions, because they just confuse me.

On a different note, I just discovered the "additional resources" section on Barbri. They have all sorts of meditation exercises. I resisted the idea of meditation in the past since it struck me as touchy-feely, but I'm going to give it a try. I've been having horrible insomnia with 34 days to go. I listened to the first lecture/exercise, and it was kind of cool that they target it toward bar students. They were also emphasizing that it may boost your scores. I'll do anything for a few extra MBE points.