July 2015 MBE Scores/Results Forum

[JuneLSATFail]

Passed the bar. No score released. From SD. Scored a 141 raw on the BarBri midterm.

[mike.alexander23]

So the 139.9 number represents the average "scaled" score of all jurisdictions? (even those not reporting yet?)

Interesting because I was under the impression that each state determines their own final scale. For ex. Iowa may decide to scale up 15 points from the "raw score" while Hawaii may scale up 20, etc. etc. I was unable to decipher whether that 139.9 number takes that variation into account.

I thought the same. If that's true, I'll take a 139 raw score any day before it gets converted inside my state's bar exam black box. Assuming the worst, that 139 represents a scaled score, wouldn't that still translate to ~128-130 raw which would be passing anyway?

[charlesxavier]

So the 139.9 number represents the average "scaled" score of all jurisdictions? (even those not reporting yet?)

Interesting because I was under the impression that each state determines their own final scale. For ex. Iowa may decide to scale up 15 points from the "raw score" while Hawaii may scale up 20, etc. etc. I was unable to decipher whether that 139.9 number takes that variation into account.

The article states that a dozen states have published their scores so I'm assuming the average is based off of that?

Also states with worse law schools are going to get hurt more by the bar for lowering acceptance standards. Typically someone who got into a t-14 instead of a t-20 because of fewer applicants isn't going to fail the bar. Stanford lowering their standards shouldn't impact bar results but the same can't be said about Samford.

[Bexy73]

Starting on page 14, the NCBE provides its detailed response on scoring and last year's results. This may provide perspective on what we are seeing again this year:

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

[ResIpsa305]

Ironic how the president of the NCBEX never actually took the bar.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/ ... ng-dumber-

[gaagoots]

Starting on page 14, the NCBE provides its detailed response on scoring and last year's results. This may provide perspective on what we are seeing again this year:

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

Nice! Our future is judged by a professional title thats starts with *psycho*

[Bexy73]

Ironic how the president of the NCBEX never actually took the bar.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/ ... ng-dumber-

Agreed. She should sit for it and experience the process for herself. I think she has a lot of valid things to say, but her judgment will always be called into question if she's never experienced the exam she's charged with administering.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Personally, I am in the camp that feels like the Bar Prep companies are mostly to blame here. I really do not believe the quality of law students is that dramatically different from past years, let alone big enough to justify this downward trend in scores. The Bar prep companies simply failed to adequately prepare many of us for new MBE questions. Like many out there, I found the difference between the practice MBE questions and the real deal was night and day. There were parts of the law that were over-focused on by the Bar prep companies that hardly got tested on, while other areas that were hardly covered in prep courses were tested extensively.

I won't know if I passed for more than a month, so we'll see.

[kjartan]

Personally, I am in the camp that feels like the Bar Prep companies are mostly to blame here. I really do not believe the quality of law students is that dramatically different from past years, let alone big enough to justify this downward trend in scores. The Bar prep companies simply failed to adequately prepare many of us for new MBE questions. Like many out there, I found the difference between the practice MBE questions and the real deal was night and day. There were parts of the law that were over-focused on by the Bar prep companies that hardly got tested on, while other areas that were hardly covered in prep courses were tested extensively.

I won't know if I passed for more than a month, so we'll see.

What exactly do you expect the Bar Prep companies to do differently? My bar prep company (Themis) licenses MBE questions from the NCBE. This year's MBE questions were night-and-day different from previous years and there's nothing the Bar Prep companies can do to anticipate (and teach to) that.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Personally, I am in the camp that feels like the Bar Prep companies are mostly to blame here. I really do not believe the quality of law students is that dramatically different from past years, let alone big enough to justify this downward trend in scores. The Bar prep companies simply failed to adequately prepare many of us for new MBE questions. Like many out there, I found the difference between the practice MBE questions and the real deal was night and day. There were parts of the law that were over-focused on by the Bar prep companies that hardly got tested on, while other areas that were hardly covered in prep courses were tested extensively.

I won't know if I passed for more than a month, so we'll see.

What exactly do you expect the Bar Prep companies to do differently? My bar prep company (Themis) licenses MBE questions from the NCBE. This year's MBE questions were night-and-day different from previous years and there's nothing the Bar Prep companies can do to anticipate (and teach to) that.

You're probably right that there is not much they could do. The whole MBE experience just made me question the value of paying for even a reasonably priced Bar prep course like Themis (which is what I took).

[K Rock]

Somebody hold me. I'm scared.

[robinhoodOO]

Somebody hold me. I'm scared.

We are sending mental hugs your way. Don't fight them...

[sdphill]

Somebody hold me. I'm scared.

We can spoon and cry together.

[kjartan]

Ironic how the president of the NCBEX never actually took the bar.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/ ... ng-dumber-

Agreed. She should sit for it and experience the process for herself. I think she has a lot of valid things to say, but her judgment will always be called into question if she's never experienced the exam she's charged with administering.

I don't. She's using students as a scape goat for declining pass rates when the reality couldn't be more clear: the MBE is getting harder.

[MonsterTRM]

Why doesn't the NCBE release detailed statistical information about the MBE? Is that the same for the college board tests, or the ACT, or even the LSAT?

[lawguyjake]

Why doesn't the NCBE release detailed statistical information about the MBE? Is that the same for the college board tests, or the ACT, or even the LSAT?

There are some statistics here:

https://www.ncbex.org/publications/statistics/

[PJP]

Oregon results are out and I'm happy to announce I passed!!! Pass rate this July is only %60 and that's really low. Geez I'm so glad I got this over with. I'm gonna get some cold ones here real soon. Oregon doesn't release MBE scores if you pass. I'm really curious about how I did and want to contribute my data to the forum but I can't. Anyways, to those still waiting, hang in there!

[lawguyjake]

Oregon results are out and I'm happy to announce I passed!!! Pass rate this July is only %60 and that's really low. Geez I'm so glad I got this over with. I'm gonna get some cold ones here real soon. Oregon doesn't release MBE scores if you pass. I'm really curious about how I did and want to contribute my data to the forum but I can't. Anyways, to those still waiting, hang in there!

10-year average in Oregon is 69.9% That is a stiff decline.

[gabewatch]

Oregon results are out and I'm happy to announce I passed!!! Pass rate this July is only %60 and that's really low. Geez I'm so glad I got this over with. I'm gonna get some cold ones here real soon. Oregon doesn't release MBE scores if you pass. I'm really curious about how I did and want to contribute my data to the forum but I can't. Anyways, to those still waiting, hang in there!

10-year average in Oregon is 69.9% That is a stiff decline.

No denying the decline. Still not a huge sample though. 398 takers. Also, would note 68% of first time takers passed.

[Fleetoffoot4]

Failed in Oregon. Will share my score breakdown once it arrives in the mail. Retaking in Feb…. or maybe I should move to Iowa, 91% pass rate sounds pretty sweet.

I took Kaplan, and honestly don't have any complaints, the shortcomings were on my end. Trying to decide if I should take another bar course for Feb or just buy a ton of practice tests and use the books I still have from Kap. Any advice from those who passed on their second go around?

[nyny]

Oregon results are out and I'm happy to announce I passed!!! Pass rate this July is only %60 and that's really low. Geez I'm so glad I got this over with. I'm gonna get some cold ones here real soon. Oregon doesn't release MBE scores if you pass. I'm really curious about how I did and want to contribute my data to the forum but I can't. Anyways, to those still waiting, hang in there!

10-year average in Oregon is 69.9% That is a stiff decline.

No denying the decline. Still not a huge sample though. 398 takers. Also, would note 68% of first time takers passed.

Thats decline is still telling... I don't think the big states are going to be any different. But I believe the first big state, Illinois, results will be out in two weeks, and Florida a few days prior.

[nyny]

Failed in Oregon. Will share my score breakdown once it arrives in the mail. Retaking in Feb…. or maybe I should move to Iowa, 91% pass rate sounds pretty sweet.

I took Kaplan, and honestly don't have any complaints, the shortcomings were on my end. Trying to decide if I should take another bar course for Feb or just buy a ton of practice tests and use the books I still have from Kap. Any advice from those who passed on their second go around?

Sorry to hear that! Take time off, reflect, and then get back to it!! I am a repeater so I know the feeling.

[hawks12]

Personally, I am in the camp that feels like the Bar Prep companies are mostly to blame here. I really do not believe the quality of law students is that dramatically different from past years, let alone big enough to justify this downward trend in scores. The Bar prep companies simply failed to adequately prepare many of us for new MBE questions. Like many out there, I found the difference between the practice MBE questions and the real deal was night and day. There were parts of the law that were over-focused on by the Bar prep companies that hardly got tested on, while other areas that were hardly covered in prep courses were tested extensively.

I won't know if I passed for more than a month, so we'll see.

What exactly do you expect the Bar Prep companies to do differently? My bar prep company (Themis) licenses MBE questions from the NCBE. This year's MBE questions were night-and-day different from previous years and there's nothing the Bar Prep companies can do to anticipate (and teach to) that.

Agreed. The more established bar prep companies have been in business for years and have been very successful in preparing students for the bar. One can look at historic pass rates and see that that's the case. It's not like all of a sudden they woke up one day thinking "gee, I think we're going to offer a mediocre product for the hell of it." It's that the way the bar examiners are choosing to test the subject matter is changing, including randomly deciding to add new sections, and the bar prep companies basically have no way of anticipating or preparing for these changes. I honestly felt like Barbri did a great job preparing me for the bar, despite the fact the questions differed markedly from the Barbri MBE practice questions. Barbri taught really helpful strategy hints so even when a question looked unfamiliar (which was frequently the case), I could still tackle it and come up with the right answer the vast majority of the time.

[Good Guy Gaud]

I, too, am a masochist who wants this information.

tagging for this reason


Waiting until Oct. 9 for scores in AZ

[hawks12]

Failed in Oregon. Will share my score breakdown once it arrives in the mail. Retaking in Feb…. or maybe I should move to Iowa, 91% pass rate sounds pretty sweet.

I took Kaplan, and honestly don't have any complaints, the shortcomings were on my end. Trying to decide if I should take another bar course for Feb or just buy a ton of practice tests and use the books I still have from Kap. Any advice from those who passed on their second go around?

I have so many friends who took the Oregon bar and I know a couple who failed. So sorry to hear that. 60% is a brutal pass rate. You'll get it next time! There's always Washington, too, with the UBE. No tax law or obnoxious state law questions (except the easy, open-book WLC)!