BarBri Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[errmsg]

For some reason my 5th edition of Emanuel didn't come with the card for civ pro questions. Anyone care to explain, if possible, why they're harder than barbri? I'm worried that they're going to hurt me on the real thing.

Same... I bought mine used and the code didn't work. A little worried about being underprepared for civ pro questions.

I've done a couple of these and they do seem harder.. a bit hard to explain why though. In general, the questions seem longer and the jurisdiction questions seem to hinge on smaller issues that weren't tested frequently in the BarBri Civ Pro questions.

[Good Guy Gaud]

Anyone willing to explain the difference between the 5th and 6th amendment rights to counsel?

What specifically?

5th - custodial interrogation
6th - offense specific, applies at all critical stages of criminal prosecution after formal proceedings have begun

Have you taken the refresher? I got question 99 correct, but I'm having trouble following the answer.

I know that 6th is offense-specific, thus no violation when asked about a different crime. But it says the 5th wasn't violated because defendant didn't request specifically for the assualt & battery investigation.

I always thought that the 6th was more narrow than the 5th because offense specific, but is the 5th interrogation-specific? If so, that means it's more-narrow than the 6th, right?

My previous understanding was "think 5th for miranda, think 6th for right to atty," but apparently that's not the case.

Sorry if this is confusing.

Edit: In response to BVest: If that's right, why was it proper under the 5th in this question? (sorry if you havent taken the refresher--def hadn't made bail and was still in custody)

They read him Miranda warnings before questioning and he didn't invoke the right to remain silent or his right to counsel.

[Kage3212]

I love how they test the 5th and 6th Amendment differences, while clearly stating in the lecture that the SC has recently confuzzeled the two and there are really no differentiating qualities any longer.

With this, I don't think it would be a far game question for the bar is the SC has muddled the territory.

[ohhoney]

I don't think PSP count includes the simulated MBE/refresher/practice MBE/half day MBE, right?

Right, almost positive that they don't

Wait whaaaat?! Can anyone authenticate this? If it's true, I'm gonna have so much joy.

[victortsoi]

I don't think PSP count includes the simulated MBE/refresher/practice MBE/half day MBE, right?

Right, almost positive that they don't

Wait whaaaat?! Can anyone authenticate this? If it's true, I'm gonna have so much joy.

i think it does, because you have to click it off. But weirdly, clicking it off doesn't raise a percentage point neccessarily, which is insane, because its a ton more work than "review lecture notes". At this point i want to get to 75% just for my nerves.

[quaker10]

Did the first half of the refresher and got embarrassed by it. Probably won't even do the second half. Some of those questions are getting way too nuanced for what we need to know. Not to mention it's a confidence killer.

I am beginning to wonder that Barbri's claim that most people improved 15+ point between the simulation and the actual Bar is NOT because they actually improved, but the mere fact that Barbri's questions were harder than the real thing

This. I did the half day today and did worse than on the simulated. I'm convinced there is definitely a "BarBri" bump because their questions are so nuanced.

[jamescastle]

I don't think PSP count includes the simulated MBE/refresher/practice MBE/half day MBE, right?

Right, almost positive that they don't

Wait whaaaat?! Can anyone authenticate this? If it's true, I'm gonna have so much joy.

If we're talking about the # of MBE questions you've answered, I'm pretty sure if you mark off the simulated MBE (the only of those listed that I've managed to do), that your # of MBE questions done increases by 200. I don't think these change your percentages though which is the graph with the different colored lines for each MBE subject even though you are inputting your answer for each question and it could relate it back to each subject.

[Neff]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

[musicfor18]

Anyone willing to explain the difference between the 5th and 6th amendment rights to counsel?

What specifically?

5th - custodial interrogation
6th - offense specific, applies at all critical stages of criminal prosecution after formal proceedings have begun

Have you taken the refresher? I got question 99 correct, but I'm having trouble following the answer.

I know that 6th is offense-specific, thus no violation when asked about a different crime. But it says the 5th wasn't violated because defendant didn't request specifically for the assualt & battery investigation.

I always thought that the 6th was more narrow than the 5th because offense specific, but is the 5th interrogation-specific? If so, that means it's more-narrow than the 6th, right?

My previous understanding was "think 5th for miranda, think 6th for right to atty," but apparently that's not the case.

Sorry if this is confusing.

Edit: In response to BVest: If that's right, why was it proper under the 5th in this question? (sorry if you havent taken the refresher--def hadn't made bail and was still in custody)


Edit 2: Looked up the case this question is based on and sort of figured it out. If anyone is interested: No. Justice Antonin Scalia delivered the opinion for a 6-3 court. The Sixth Amendment ensures competent legal representation in courts of law, whereas the Fifth Amendment ensures adequate counsel when confronting police. Because the Amendments have different purposes, invoking the Sixth Amendment by retaining a public defender does not invoke the Fifth Amendment when speaking with the police about an unrelated criminal charge. The Court reasoned that "[o]ne might be quite willing to speak to the police without counsel present concerning many matters, but not the matter under prosecution." McNeil's decision to have a public defender represent him at a pretrial hearing for armed robbery could not possibly indicate the choices he wished to make in the future regarding other confrontations with police.

Both the 5th and 6th can apply in interrogations. The 5th, via Miranda, applies in any custodial interrogation about anything. The 6th applies only in post-charging interrogations about the crime charged, even if the interrogation isn't custodial. One ramification of this difference is that Miranda only applies if the suspect knows the person he's talking to is government agent. 6th amendment applies even if he doesn't know, as long as there's deliberate elicitation of an incriminating response.

[941law]

Do you think they give out the MBE portion in different orders of questions to each student?

My buddy and I took the MPRE and I remember him scaring the crap out of me because he said he had 'C' for like 7 of his first 10 answers. I believe we had different test booklets but I never confirmed that. He is taking MBE in a different state than mine but I almost can't imagine the MBE people making their job more difficult and having to sort out all our exams.

[941law]

And no, I'm not plotting a time-zone difference answer relay.

[Kage3212]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

Yep, I snuck away from Emmanuel's test with a 161/200. Simulated Barbri Exam was 142/200. Today's refresher was down a little bit to 72/100.

Despite these scores, I still have that constant feeling of not knowing enough....I guess this is probably the norm until after results come in.

PA is a 45% MBE state, so a strong showing on that portion of the test will help me out. Also, 20% of the essays are solely based on the PT. Good PT performance and good MBE performance would probably net you a sufficient amount of points to substantially under-perform on the other essays.

[charlesxavier]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

I just finished the first 100 this evening with 77/100. 132 on the barbri simulated. I'm worried that if the civ pro questions really are significantly harder I'll likely cancel out any bump.

[Neff]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

I just finished the first 100 this evening with 77/100. 132 on the barbri simulated. I'm worried that if the civ pro questions really are significantly harder I'll likely cancel out any bump.

Yeah I haven't really touched civ pro. Barbri's civ pro material is hilariously bad/easy. I think we should be fine because everyone will be underprepared.

[Outis Onoma]

I thought the 10 Civ pro questions that NCBE released were closer in difficulty to barbri than emanuel. There were a couple questions released by NCBE that weren't covered in the barbri lecture notes, but you could say also say that about other subjects like real property.

[DportIA]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

I got a 125 on SIM MBE and a 77 on Emanuel's 100 morning Qs. My scores have since dropped down to 72% consistently on Emanuel's.

On that note, I am resigned to my fate at 70-75% on Emanuel's questions. Every time. Every set. I am in the ballpark for my practice essays/MPT. If I don't pass, well.

[xChiTowNx]

I'm just hoping for a solid 60% MBE come gameday.
Edited: Realized 65% was 120 RAW -- may a little too aspirational for a bottom curve dweller like me.

[walkthegoose]

does anybody know where to find the questions you selected to "review later" on the MPQ practice sets?

[Danger Zone]

Anyone done Emanuel's full day test? Just finished the morning 100 questions and got 74 out of 100. For what it's worth, I got 125/200 on my Barbri midterm and was getting about low 60s% on the StudySmart questions. Assuming that Emanuel is representative of the real MBE, this seems to support the add +10% idea between Barbri and the real thing. Emanuel claims you need low 60% to pass in an average state and high 60s to pass in Cali.

I feel like if you are hitting 70% on Barbri you are going to destroy the real thing. If you are getting 70+% on Barbri AND you do Emanuel cover-to-cover, don't be surprised if you get one of the top scores in the state.

I got a 125 on SIM MBE and a 77 on Emanuel's 100 morning Qs. My scores have since dropped down to 72% consistently on Emanuel's.

On that note, I am resigned to my fate at 70-75% on Emanuel's questions. Every time. Every set. I am in the ballpark for my practice essays/MPT. If I don't pass, well.

Dude that's all easily passing

[blackcup]

If I got a 115/200 on the MBE simulated, and a 64/100 on the MBE refresher, and I have been focusing mostly on MBE prep, do you think it's about time that I convert almost exclusively to essay prep? I could do another half day simulated exam toward the end of the week?

I'm just wondering if there is a law of diminishing returns here for the MBE now that I am solidly slightly above median. Since I have been neglecting the essay a bit, is it credited that I just gun the essays?

Btw, I'm in a 50% MBE state (IL).

Or should I do light essay prep and focus on upping my MBE for an autopass?

[kyle010723]

Just finished the infamous "MBE Refresher." Clocked in at 64/100 like many of you folks. I don't know if I think the Refresher was necessarily "harder" or the fact that we got scared into over-analysising each question after MPQ5/6. Several of my mistakes were that I forwent the trivial answers thinking they were testing for some specific nuances.

[kyle010723]

If I got a 115/200 on the MBE simulated, and a 64/100 on the MBE refresher, and I have been focusing mostly on MBE prep, do you think it's about time that I convert almost exclusively to essay prep? I could do another half day simulated exam toward the end of the week?

I'm just wondering if there is a law of diminishing returns here for the MBE now that I am solidly slightly above median. Since I have been neglecting the essay a bit, is it credited that I just gun the essays?

Btw, I'm in a 50% MBE state (IL).

Or should I do light essay prep and focus on upping my MBE for an autopass?

Oh hi! Fellow IL taker.

[blackcup]

If I got a 115/200 on the MBE simulated, and a 64/100 on the MBE refresher, and I have been focusing mostly on MBE prep, do you think it's about time that I convert almost exclusively to essay prep? I could do another half day simulated exam toward the end of the week?

I'm just wondering if there is a law of diminishing returns here for the MBE now that I am solidly slightly above median. Since I have been neglecting the essay a bit, is it credited that I just gun the essays?

Btw, I'm in a 50% MBE state (IL).

Or should I do light essay prep and focus on upping my MBE for an autopass?

Oh hi! Fellow IL taker.

Hi. Thoughts?

[kyle010723]

If I got a 115/200 on the MBE simulated, and a 64/100 on the MBE refresher, and I have been focusing mostly on MBE prep, do you think it's about time that I convert almost exclusively to essay prep? I could do another half day simulated exam toward the end of the week?

I'm just wondering if there is a law of diminishing returns here for the MBE now that I am solidly slightly above median. Since I have been neglecting the essay a bit, is it credited that I just gun the essays?

Btw, I'm in a 50% MBE state (IL).

Or should I do light essay prep and focus on upping my MBE for an autopass?

Oh hi! Fellow IL taker.

Hi. Thoughts?

We have similar stats, and I've mostly been focusing on MBE too. The odds of me learning commercial paper or secured transaction overnight is slim to none. My plan is light essay prep and keep gunning MBE, since several of the essays are sure to be MBE subjects.

[blackcup]

If I got a 115/200 on the MBE simulated, and a 64/100 on the MBE refresher, and I have been focusing mostly on MBE prep, do you think it's about time that I convert almost exclusively to essay prep? I could do another half day simulated exam toward the end of the week?

I'm just wondering if there is a law of diminishing returns here for the MBE now that I am solidly slightly above median. Since I have been neglecting the essay a bit, is it credited that I just gun the essays?

Btw, I'm in a 50% MBE state (IL).

Or should I do light essay prep and focus on upping my MBE for an autopass?

Oh hi! Fellow IL taker.

Hi. Thoughts?

We have similar stats, and I've mostly been focusing on MBE too. The odds of me learning commercial paper or secured transaction overnight is slim to none. My plan is light essay prep and keep gunning MBE, since several of the essays are sure to be MBE subjects.

Nice. When you say gunning MBE, do you actually write out the MBE essays, or do you just gun the MBE itself?