Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Tanicius]

Missing more questions now makes me anxious. Themis shouldn't toy with my emotional stability right now...

Also this is so true: http://notthatbar.tumblr.com/post/93032 ... e-question

Hahaha.

[Gopackgo2010]

For those debating the difficulty of the later MBE PQs. I have finished all but one (saving it for tomorrow). And they get noticeably more difficult as you move on. I just finished 17 and there were some questions testing the most intricate concepts and providing some of the worst collections of answers possible. Though they have been getting more difficult, I have found that my scores remain consistent overall (between 72-78), but varying greatly in subject categories (i.e. one test I'll get a 100% in contracts, the next I'll get a 50%).

On a side note: if Themis makes the later PQs more difficult on purpose as someone said, I think this is a flawed method. People are generally doing those groups of questions closer to the actual exam so (1) it is likely to add stress at a time where the tester no longer benefits from stress, and (2) those questions force you to review topics that will likely not be covered on the actual exam, and if they are covered they will not be in great detail, thus taking valuable time away from worthwhile review on topics that one should be more familiar with in order to get the major concepts worth the substantial amount of points on game day.

Yeah, but that would make far too much sense. Let's not forget this is the noble and learned profession of the law, where everything is needlessly tricky, difficult, psychologically harmful, and somewhat sadistic (if not completely).

[84Sunbird2000]

For those debating the difficulty of the later MBE PQs. I have finished all but one (saving it for tomorrow). And they get noticeably more difficult as you move on. I just finished 17 and there were some questions testing the most intricate concepts and providing some of the worst collections of answers possible. Though they have been getting more difficult, I have found that my scores remain consistent overall (between 72-78), but varying greatly in subject categories (i.e. one test I'll get a 100% in contracts, the next I'll get a 50%).

On a side note: if Themis makes the later PQs more difficult on purpose as someone said, I think this is a flawed method. People are generally doing those groups of questions closer to the actual exam so (1) it is likely to add stress at a time where the tester no longer benefits from stress, and (2) those questions force you to review topics that will likely not be covered on the actual exam, and if they are covered they will not be in great detail, thus taking valuable time away from worthwhile review on topics that one should be more familiar with in order to get the major concepts worth the substantial amount of points on game day.

Yeah, but that would make far too much sense. Let's not forget this is the noble and learned profession of the law, where everything is needlessly tricky, difficult, psychologically harmful, and somewhat sadistic (if not completely).

I don't know if there is any proof that they are harder, though. If they had some sort of "average score for this set" metric, I'd be inclined to agree. Instead, I err toward thinking it's more of a cognitive bias issue. To wit, people have always seen variance from one set to another, even in the single-subject quizzes. Heck, I once scored a 56% on a 34 question Torts set and then got an 88% on a 34 question Torts set the next day.

However, with time being of the essence (HAH, NOT IN LAND CONTRACTS!) people are seeing swings of a few points in the 50 or 100 question quizzes and thinking they prove different. Given the small sample size from each set, I'm guessing it's more "variance-within-two-standard-deviations" than it is some significant and meaningful difference in difficulty.

I say that because I've found the later mixed sets (roughly 10-18) to have been much easier. I've averaged about 79% across them and finished them much quicker (on a per question basis). But I assume my perception that they are easier is just as illusory as the perception that they are harder. Maybe I'm better prepared, maybe I'm noticing patterns from similar questions, like the fucking "create a software package, escrow, 47% efficiency gain" question. I think it's just random variance, and not even variance that was precisely predicted in advance by the people compiling the questions.

EDIT: Despite what the Themis Rep said. I had assumed he/she meant the goals going up (50% then 60% then 70% Goal) or something like that. If they are actually getting harder, I'm super confused.

[Lasers]

for PTs, how do we know proper format of a document?

like statement of facts? a question presented? is there some expected standard?

i know it depends on the document you're drafting, but what's expected of each type of document?

[ConsiderMeMilesDavis]

I don't know if there is any proof that they are harder, though. If they had some sort of "average score for this set" metric, I'd be inclined to agree. Instead, I err toward thinking it's more of a cognitive bias issue. To wit, people have always seen variance from one set to another, even in the single-subject quizzes. Heck, I once scored a 56% on a 34 question Torts set and then got an 88% on a 34 question Torts set the next day.

However, with time being of the essence (HAH, NOT IN LAND CONTRACTS!) people are seeing swings of a few points in the 50 or 100 question quizzes and thinking they prove different. Given the small sample size from each set, I'm guessing it's more "variance-within-two-standard-deviations" than it is some significant and meaningful difference in difficulty.

I say that because I've found the later mixed sets (roughly 10-18) to have been much easier. I've averaged about 79% across them and finished them much quicker (on a per question basis). But I assume my perception that they are easier is just as illusory as the perception that they are harder. Maybe I'm better prepared, maybe I'm noticing patterns from similar questions, like the fucking "create a software package, escrow, 47% efficiency gain" question. I think it's just random variance, and not even variance that was precisely predicted in advance by the people compiling the questions.

EDIT: Despite what the Themis Rep said. I had assumed he/she meant the goals going up (50% then 60% then 70% Goal) or something like that. If they are actually getting harder, I'm super confused.

Dude, if your bar prep has been even a fraction as intense as this analysis, you're gonna crush the Bar.

[mmmnnn]

for PTs, how do we know proper format of a document?

like statement of facts? a question presented? is there some expected standard?

i know it depends on the document you're drafting, but what's expected of each type of document?

The letter from the client/supervising attorney/whoever will tell you how to draft it. They usually also provide you with a template.

[mmmnnn]

Thanks for the help and encouragement along the way, everyone. Best of luck!

[puttycake]

Thanks for the help and encouragement along the way, everyone. Best of luck!

Hear hear!

[Apple Tree]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

[SilverE2]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... w=viewpoll

You've done about what the average person on this website has done. And I'm sure the bar pass rate on this site skews high. You're more than fine!

[dtl]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Near what I did. I would say it is enough as long as you were doing well on them! I switched almost entirely to essay once I was comfortable.

[Apple Tree]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... w=viewpoll

You've done about what the average person on this website has done. And I'm sure the bar pass rate on this site skews high. You're more than fine!

Haha thanks!

[Apple Tree]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Near what I did. I would say it is enough as long as you were doing well on them! I switched almost entirely to essay once I was comfortable.

Yeah I was getting about high 70% so I switched to essays, but for some reason I've been getting the MBE questions asked on this board wrong and that got me worried that I had forgot all my MBE knowledge... Did a set of Themis and was okay, but still kinda worried. But there's not much I can do at this point.

[dtl]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Near what I did. I would say it is enough as long as you were doing well on them! I switched almost entirely to essay once I was comfortable.

Yeah I was getting about high 70% so I switched to essays, but for some reason I've been getting the MBE questions asked on this board wrong and that got me worried that I had forgot all my MBE knowledge... Did a set of Themis and was okay, but still kinda worried. But there's not much I can do at this point.

The questions being asked on the board are generally ones that are truly confusing people. I would not worry about it too much.


I just checked into my hotel, and had this conversation:

Clerk: Welcome to the Holiday Inn. Checking in?
Me: Yup.
Clerk: Another Bar exam guy, huh?
Me: That I am. How could you tell?
Clerk: You guys all have the same look in your eyes.
Me: Like our souls were sucked out over the last three months?
Clerk: Yup. That's the one.

He did not even skip a beat.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Near what I did. I would say it is enough as long as you were doing well on them! I switched almost entirely to essay once I was comfortable.

Yeah I was getting about high 70% so I switched to essays, but for some reason I've been getting the MBE questions asked on this board wrong and that got me worried that I had forgot all my MBE knowledge... Did a set of Themis and was okay, but still kinda worried. But there's not much I can do at this point.

The questions being asked on the board are generally ones that are truly confusing people. I would not worry about it too much.


I just checked into my hotel, and had this conversation:

Clerk: Welcome to the Holiday Inn. Checking in?
Me: Yup.
Clerk: Another Bar exam guy, huh?
Me: That I am. How could you tell?
Clerk: You guys all have the same look in your eyes.
Me: Like our souls were sucked out over the last three months?
Clerk: Yup. That's the one.

He did not even skip a beat.

lol!!!

[Apple Tree]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Near what I did. I would say it is enough as long as you were doing well on them! I switched almost entirely to essay once I was comfortable.

Yeah I was getting about high 70% so I switched to essays, but for some reason I've been getting the MBE questions asked on this board wrong and that got me worried that I had forgot all my MBE knowledge... Did a set of Themis and was okay, but still kinda worried. But there's not much I can do at this point.

The questions being asked on the board are generally ones that are truly confusing people. I would not worry about it too much.


I just checked into my hotel, and had this conversation:

Clerk: Welcome to the Holiday Inn. Checking in?
Me: Yup.
Clerk: Another Bar exam guy, huh?
Me: That I am. How could you tell?
Clerk: You guys all have the same look in your eyes.
Me: Like our souls were sucked out over the last three months?
Clerk: Yup. That's the one.

He did not even skip a beat.

Hahah great conversation!

[Lasers]

I've only done about 1200 MBE questions (including the simulations). Is that too few? I guess I need someone to tell me it's enough because obviously I don't have time to do much change lol.

Here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... w=viewpoll

You've done about what the average person on this website has done. And I'm sure the bar pass rate on this site skews high. You're more than fine!

i've done under 1000. probably like 750-ish.

oh well.

[ConsiderMeMilesDavis]

Clerk: Welcome to the Holiday Inn. Checking in?
Me: Yup.
Clerk: Another Bar exam guy, huh?
Me: That I am. How could you tell?
Clerk: You guys all have the same look in your eyes.
Me: Like our souls were sucked out over the last three months?
Clerk: Yup. That's the one.

He did not even skip a beat.

is he available to testify?

[FlanAl]

for those of you saying that the question sets are getting way harder, does this apply to the 100 question sets as well. I find I have done WAY better on MBE questions after doing about 10 or so and would like to do some to warm up on test day but don't want to get completely thrown off.

Thanks

[j1987]

this may be the last time i go on TLS forums until the bar, so i just wanted to say GOOD LUCK to everyone! we studied hard this summer, and we all will pass! thanks to all for suffering with me/answering stupid questions/making me feel better about my panic.

we got this!

[Lilly76]

I still feel like my essays could go either way. I've stopped panicking about, though, because at this point there's not much more I can do to feel better about them.

[Tanicius]

I still feel like my essays could go either way. I've stopped panicking about, though, because at this point there's not much more I can do to feel better about them.

I've been whipping this stuff up all day long:

1. Agency and Partnerships on page 40

2. First Amendment Freedom of Expression on page 31.

3. Commercial Paper on page 30.

4. Secured Transactions on page 39.

[ConsiderMeMilesDavis]

I've been whipping this stuff up all day long:

1. Agency and Partnerships on page 40

2. First Amendment Freedom of Expression on page 31.

3. Commercial Paper on page 30.

4. Secured Transactions on page 39.

ummm....damn bro

[dtl]

That sounds insane. Who the fuck would ever volunteer to be a general partner at a limited partnership? They do all the work but front all the risk?

Anyone who’s offered a really high share of the profits without having to give up all that big of a capital contribution to become a member. That’s my guess at least. These people are the CEO types who love running stuff and making lots of money. They aren’t as afraid of risk as everyone else. But yeah, I don’t think I’d want to be a general partner, personally.

Corporations and LLCs can be the GP. 95% of the time in real life, you have a bunch of limited partners, and then a limited liability entity (usually single purpose) as the general partner.

These are pretty awesome summaries in plain speech, too.

[Prime]

I still feel like my essays could go either way. I've stopped panicking about, though, because at this point there's not much more I can do to feel better about them.

I've been whipping this stuff up all day long:

1. Agency and Partnerships on page 40

2. First Amendment Freedom of Expression on page 31.

3. Commercial Paper on page 30.

4. Secured Transactions on page 39.

Legit