July 2014 Bar Exam results thread Forum

[cooperlaserpup]

this thread makes me hyperventilate.

I feel exactly like homer in your pic right there with ya.

[cooperlaserpup]

Okay, I suck at math but bear with me. This is how Maryland scales and scores the bar:

Total Scale Score = (Written Scale Score x 2) + MBE Scale Score

To pass the Examination, an applicant must achieve a Total Scale Score of 406 or higher.
3. An applicant’s Written Raw Score will be converted to the MBE Scale using the following
formula:
Written Scale Score = [(A-B)/C][D] + E, where
A = the sum of the applicant’s raw scores on the 10 essay questions and the MPT
B = the mean of the A values across all applicants
C = the standard deviation of the A values across all applicants
D = the standard deviation of the Maryland applicants’ MBE scale scores
E = the mean of the Maryland applicants’ MBE scale scores


So let's say for example you perform EXACTLY AVERAGE ON EVERYTHING. Middle of the fuckin pack. And let's say because of the difficult MBE average is 135 instead of the more typical 143 or whatever it normally is. That would make your equation look like [(average-average)/c][D] + 135. Carrying that out, (0)+135. Then to calculate our final score we would do (135 x 2) +135 for a grand total of 405. THIS IS A FAILING SCORE.

Am I insane? Does the AVERAGE test taker fail the Maryland bar in this scenario???? This scenario seems horrifyingly possible to me. And here if you are even a little below average at essays you better hope to be WAY above average at the MBE. I know this isn't perfect math, but if anyone wants to explain to me why it isn't actually this horrible please please do!

[vandalvideo]

@Cooper:

They are supposed to scale the MBE to within an acceptable margin of error for every July. Meaning the scale is supposed to be 145 + or - 3 every year. Which means in any given year the curve will be higher, and essays will generally scale to around this same average.

[cooperlaserpup]

@Cooper:

They are supposed to scale the MBE to within an acceptable margin of error for every July. Meaning the scale is supposed to be 145 + or - 3 every year. Which means in any given year the curve will be higher, and essays will generally scale to around this same average.

Hm. Isn't that not the same as what Tanicius described?

I suppose it really doesn't matter, it changes nothing at this point, its just conceptually a bummer

Thanks though!

[dallaseagle]

Colorado pass rate did not drop 15%. Pass rate for first-time takers this July was 78%. Last July it was 84%. Colorado publishes this information. That's a sizable drop, but it's not huge.

Also, it is inconceivable that ExamSoft difficulties could cause even an additional 6% of test takers to fail the bar.

Well, the more interesting thing is that CU & DU's pass rates both dropped pretty far. ie: the decrease isn't attributable to OOS TTTs

use indecipherable abbreviations much?

[julianplenti87]

Has anybody heard anything about the AZ bar exam and results? On the official website, it says that results will be published at 4:45 PM, tomorrow, October 10th. I had heard that they mail out MBE scores the month before or so and I never received it in the mail. I moved about a month or so ago but address forwarding is in place so that mailed score should have been here by now if they had mailed it.

Also, does anyone know if they at least give us a private link to lookup results before it's published online for the world to see, or at least an email with our score beforehand? Anyone who knows this info or who has taken the AZ bar before, your input would be really appreciated right now.

I passed the bar in a jurisdiction last summer where results were also publicly posted however we were emailed the night before as provided with a private lookup of the results. Thanks!

[LeDique]

Colorado pass rate did not drop 15%. Pass rate for first-time takers this July was 78%. Last July it was 84%. Colorado publishes this information. That's a sizable drop, but it's not huge.

Also, it is inconceivable that ExamSoft difficulties could cause even an additional 6% of test takers to fail the bar.

Well, the more interesting thing is that CU & DU's pass rates both dropped pretty far. ie: the decrease isn't attributable to OOS TTTs

use indecipherable abbreviations much?

I'm not sure what was indecipherable about that if you've spent more than 5 minutes on TLS.

[comet_halley]

Can someone who won't mock me for my suckiness at math explain why a more difficult MBE wouldn't be dealt with by the scaling of the MBE? Isn't the scaled score of the MBE meant to account for difficulty changes across different administrations?

Is the percentage of first time takers down (or the number of repeaters up)? That would be a viable reason.

Although the mean of MBE did not change much, the variance changed quite a lot because of the nonsense of the questions. So more people fell out of the passing grade because the CDF of the normal distribution to a certain grade would decrease if the variance increases.

[akili]

Tennessee is up!

[vandalvideo]

Can someone who won't mock me for my suckiness at math explain why a more difficult MBE wouldn't be dealt with by the scaling of the MBE? Isn't the scaled score of the MBE meant to account for difficulty changes across different administrations?

Is the percentage of first time takers down (or the number of repeaters up)? That would be a viable reason.

Although the mean of MBE did not change much, the variance changed quite a lot because of the nonsense of the questions. So more people fell out of the passing grade because the CDF of the normal distribution to a certain grade would decrease if the variance increases.

Which would mean that there would be more scores in the higher range as well. So you're just saying there were fewer 140s; more 130 and below and more 150 and above?

[LAWYER2]

Has anybody heard anything about the AZ bar exam and results? On the official website, it says that results will be published at 4:45 PM, tomorrow, October 10th. I had heard that they mail out MBE scores the month before or so and I never received it in the mail. I moved about a month or so ago but address forwarding is in place so that mailed score should have been here by now if they had mailed it.

Also, does anyone know if they at least give us a private link to lookup results before it's published online for the world to see, or at least an email with our score beforehand? Anyone who knows this info or who has taken the AZ bar before, your input would be really appreciated right now.

I passed the bar in a jurisdiction last summer where results were also publicly posted however we were emailed the night before as provided with a private lookup of the results. Thanks!

I'm waiting on AZ results today as well. They discontinued mailing out MBE results prior to overall results two years ago. To my knowledge, there will be no advanced correspondence, just the public posting of results today at 4:45pm. Good Luck!

[Burgstaller04]

I am waiting for Texas results, but my sister in law took the AZ bar. I'm compulsively checking the AZ Bar website to get her results. This is a bad sign of things to come for me isn't it?

[julianplenti87]

Hahaha same boat dude. I know it says 4:45 but I keep compulsively checking too, in the slim slim hope that somehow they'll just post the results early. I feel like I didn't pass but damn I would at least like to know I didn't haha

[LAWYER2]

I heard AZ will post prior to the exact 4:45 mark but I'm waiting. I'm going to turn my phone off so I don't get any surprise texts or FB messages. Hopefully we'll be fine!!

[Burgstaller04]

AZ pass rate is 68%

[LAWYER2]

AZ pass rate is 68%

Yes, but thankfully I passed that Motherphucker!! GL to everyone else

[julianplenti87]

Passed as well! Good luck to everyone else! And damn, that seems lower than Arizona's usual rate, wow!

[LAWYER2]

Passed as well! Good luck to everyone else! And damn, that seems lower than Arizona's usual rate, wow!

Congrats! I know quite a few folks who didn't make it.

*ETA* It appears the passage rate is down 8% from the 76% passage rate in July 2013.
It will be interesting to see how individual schools fared.

Everyone is talking about the MBE and it's difficulty. I'll be frank, the MBE did not seem any harder than practice exams. However, it was noticeable that the actual MBE questions did not mirror the practice questions in any way. The essays were a Godsend because everything seemed repeated from prior essays or it came from left field, in which case, everyone struggled with them equally (Corporations shareholder proxy BS). I remained humble as I could throughout the grading period, but deep down I had a positive feeling. I left the exam thinking "if my efforts weren't good enough, I honestly don't know what I could have done differently." The best advice I got in preparing was to remain confident and I did that. The bar exam, to me, was no more than 4 law school exams taken back to back. I really think the Critical Pass cards along with the Emmanuel MBE tactics helped. I recorded myself reading the flashcards and would listen to my recordings on repeat in my sleep. I found myself dreaming about and reciting the law in my sleep. I'm taking the MI bar in Feb so it'll be time to rinse and repeat shortly.

[MdandFlEsquire]

Ive been barred in the state of Maryland since 2011 (I graduated in Dec 2010, sat for the Feb 2011 MD bar and passed it on the first try). I was enrolled in Shemer Bar review and did not work during the month of February in preparation for the Maryland bar. I just sat for the Florida bar in July 2014. This time I used Themis as my prep course. I did not take anytime off from work. My only days off were Memorial Day, July 4th and the Monday before the exam to travel to Florida. Taking time off from work was not an option, so I had to spend every free moment studying (nights and weekend for 2 1/2 months). I felt good about the MBE, but Florida MC had me nervous. I made the mistake of going on one forum post exam and read one examinees response to one of the essays. Needless to say it was completely different from mine. From that moment on, I vowed to avoid all forums. I was on vacation overseas when the results were released. I passed both the Fl portion and the MBE portion with room to spare. My advice, stay away from these forums while awaiting your results. You don't really care about the pass statistics....... You truly only care about your own results, so don't torture yourself with forum speculations. Good luck!

[MdandFlEsquire]

Okay, I suck at math but bear with me. This is how Maryland scales and scores the bar:

Total Scale Score = (Written Scale Score x 2) + MBE Scale Score

To pass the Examination, an applicant must achieve a Total Scale Score of 406 or higher.
3. An applicant’s Written Raw Score will be converted to the MBE Scale using the following
formula:
Written Scale Score = [(A-B)/C][D] + E, where
A = the sum of the applicant’s raw scores on the 10 essay questions and the MPT
B = the mean of the A values across all applicants
C = the standard deviation of the A values across all applicants
D = the standard deviation of the Maryland applicants’ MBE scale scores
E = the mean of the Maryland applicants’ MBE scale scores


So let's say for example you perform EXACTLY AVERAGE ON EVERYTHING. Middle of the fuckin pack. And let's say because of the difficult MBE average is 135 instead of the more typical 143 or whatever it normally is. That would make your equation look like [(average-average)/c][D] + 135. Carrying that out, (0)+135. Then to calculate our final score we would do (135 x 2) +135 for a grand total of 405. THIS IS A FAILING SCORE.

Am I insane? Does the AVERAGE test taker fail the Maryland bar in this scenario???? This scenario seems horrifyingly possible to me. And here if you are even a little below average at essays you better hope to be WAY above average at the MBE. I know this isn't perfect math, but if anyone wants to explain to me why it isn't actually this horrible please please do!

I sat for and passed the MD bar in Feb 2011. The essays are worth significantly more than the MBE in Maryland. If my memory serves me correctly, I remember not doing so great on one of the essays and I believe my MBE score was 148. I just sat for the Florida Bar in July and my MBE score was 150, so the score was similar. I honestly didn't think this exam was any harder than the Maryland bar or my practice exams. I remember walking out of the Maryland bar thinking that the actual MBE was much harder than any practice exam. I thought that this years MBE was on par with the practice exams and my score mirrored my practice score. I believe that you can score middle of the pack on you essays and MPT and average on the MBE and still pass.

[vandalvideo]

I sat for and passed the MD bar in Feb 2011. The essays are worth significantly more than the MBE in Maryland. If my memory serves me correctly, I remember not doing so great on one of the essays and I believe my MBE score was 148. I just sat for the Florida Bar in July and my MBE score was 150, so the score was similar. I honestly didn't think this exam was any harder than the Maryland bar or my practice exams. I remember walking out of the Maryland bar thinking that the actual MBE was much harder than any practice exam. I thought that this years MBE was on par with the practice exams and my score mirrored my practice score. I believe that you can score middle of the pack on you essays and MPT and average on the MBE and still pass.

Just to get one variable out of the way; did you study more, less, or about the same amount you did last time?

[ninny]

does this cover the NYS bar exam yet? does anyone know when that will be?

[Denverlaw2014]

I just want to post a little bit about my experience in case it helps anyone going forward, especially in regards to the MBE. I was working 30-35 hours a week while studying, so I had to study from 5-7 in the morning and then 7-12 at night from the beginning of June until I took the bar exam at the end of July. I decided to give BarMax a try, because it was a lot less expensive than other bar review courses, and it gave me the flexibility to study on my own time. Another good thing about paying less is that it opened up some funds to purchase other supplemental materials. For example, I purchased Lean Sheets for all of the subjects, and I also purchase one of the OPE tests from NCBE for $50. In my opinion, both purchases were well worth the cost.

Between BarMax and the OPE, I did about 2700 multiple choice questions before taking the actual bar exam. I took OBE 4 about 2 weeks before the bar exam and it estimated by scaled score as 149. On the actual MBE I ended up getting a 165 scaled score and the actual MBE, while it seemed a little harder, was pretty consistent with OPE 4 in terms of difficulty.

The Lean Sheets cost $30 and these really helped me with memorization in the last two weeks of bar study because, while not perfect, they contained almost all of the information that I needed and they came in handy while checking my practice essays. On the actual bar, I got a 166 on the written portion, and I attribute that mainly to doing a lot of practice essays and because of the simplicity and flexibility of BarMax and the Lean Sheets. After taking the test I really thought that I hadn't done well on the MBE, so I was hesitant to recommend BarMax, but now that I passed, I can definitely say that it is a good option for people who need flexible study. And no, I don't work for BarMax, nor will I get anything from them for recommending it, but I just hope this helps someone if they are looking for a different way to study next time. Good luck to everyone else who hasn't gotten their results back!

[sherpaorlawschool]

I took OBE 4 about 2 weeks before the bar exam and it estimated by scaled score as 149. On the actual MBE I ended up getting a 165 scaled score and the actual MBE, while it seemed a little harder, was pretty consistent with OPE 4 in terms of difficulty.

Thanks for sharing this. I have been wondering how other people felt about OPE-4 because as I've mentioned in this thread before, I thought it was the closest thing to the actual MBE. It eases my mind a bit to hear someone else has similar thoughts about it. As I said before, I plan to report back when I get my score (which is still 3 weeks away) in case it helps anyone else thinking of taking OPE-4 in the future.

[robertsrich]

so for all the Pennsylvania takers out there, tomorrow is Wednesday any information on whether or not we will get the much anticipated email announcing results this Friday????