Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[puttycake]

Gah. Did my Real Property graded essay. The number of things we're supposed to assume without being told to assume them drives me mad! It's probably common sense, but I don't have any of that.

[Tanicius]

Gah. Did my Real Property graded essay. The number of things we're supposed to assume without being told to assume them drives me mad! It's probably common sense, but I don't have any of that.

This pisses me off. My biggest problems on the MBE questions in particular are when I disagree over the answer key's definition of something subjective, like "reasonable." The answer explanation will say something, such as "This answer is wrong, because it's not a reasonable or rational way of doing X." And I'm just sitting there thinking Says fucking you.

[071816]

No way i'm gonna sit here and read these insanely long property outline. I'm just gonna read the short outline and get right into the lecture.

[Tanicius]

No way i'm gonna sit here and read these insanely long property outline. I'm just gonna read the short outline and get right into the lecture.

Kramer's a hilarious lecturer, but I'm trying hard to keep from falling asleep on Property. I sooo hate that this is anything more than just a cursory subject on the bar exam.

[071816]

No way i'm gonna sit here and read these insanely long property outline. I'm just gonna read the short outline and get right into the lecture.

Kramer's a hilarious lecturer, but I'm trying hard to keep from falling asleep on Property. I sooo hate that this is anything more than just a cursory subject on the bar exam.

Seriously man. Fuck property. I think I like con law more than this crap right now.

[Lasers]

i like the property lecturer. con law is still the worst, imo.

i get so discouraged when i see so many lectures though...fuck.

[Lasers]

No way i'm gonna sit here and read these insanely long property outline. I'm just gonna read the short outline and get right into the lecture.

yeah, i'm doing this now, too. the fat outline is just for reference.

[Tanicius]

Page 11-12 of the Property long outline. I just... I have no idea what the long examples in the gray box of page 12 even mean.

[Tanicius]

This Rules against Perpetuities stuff is making me want to play Crusader Kings and become the architect of super convoluted kingdom inheritances.

[puttycake]

Page 11-12 of the Property long outline. I just... I have no idea what the long examples in the gray box of page 12 even mean.

Ah vested remainders.

I just pay attention to where the period is. If it says "To A for life and then to B." with a period, it's vested. It's almost like ending the sentence there activated the vesting. Then the next sentence puts a condition on the remainder, but doesn't unvest it.

On the other hand, if it says "To A for life and then to B but if..." or "To A for life and if B survives A then to B..." it doesn't have the period there to finish the thought. The remainder then doesn't get that vesting.

I like to think of it almost like each sentence is on a separate piece of paper and you think about what you would know if you couldn't find the next piece of paper. "To A for life and then to B." would be on a piece of paper and you'd say, "Hey, if A dies, it goes to B." "To A for life and then to B but if..." you'd say "Hey, if A dies, it goes to B only if this thing happens." The former is vested, the latter isn't. The former still has a condition, but it comes on a separate piece of paper (in this image) so it's not a condition precedent.

Hope this is helpful.

[Tanicius]

That's awesome. Thanks!

[071816]

I know scores on the essays don't matter much in the beginning (especially when we're still referencing notes as we write), but what's generally considered a passing essay score on the exam? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

[SilverE2]

I know scores on the essays don't matter much in the beginning (especially when we're still referencing notes as we write), but what's generally considered a passing essay score on the exam? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

In Florida essays are 300 points combined, so 100 each, and a passing score is 30 per essay, so 90 total. Not exactly a high bar haha.

[puttycake]

I know scores on the essays don't matter much in the beginning (especially when we're still referencing notes as we write), but what's generally considered a passing essay score on the exam? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

You're in CA, right? I think Anindita Dutta said aim for 65s for each essay and Performance Test.

[puttycake]

I did the first MBE section for contracts and was utterly delighted to do really really well. It was a shock, because I suck at contracts! I was delighted! Whee! I'm good at contracts!

And then I did the second section and came back to earth. Face first.

[northwood]

I did the first MBE section for contracts and was utterly delighted to do really really well. It was a shock, because I suck at contracts! I was delighted! Whee! I'm good at contracts!

And then I did the second section and came back to earth. Face first.

about 50% correct is a good score in the beginning of bar prep

[swfangirl]

Turns out ConLaw is actually just Leg Reg + Admin with some CivPro.

[northwood]

Turns out ConLaw is actually just Leg Reg + Admin with some CivPro.

so it was con law( and not a massive meteoroid) that killed the dinosaurs?

[kapital98]

I just started Themis. They really directed an entire day to "Introduction to NY Bar Exam"?

[Tanicius]

Turns out ConLaw is actually just Leg Reg + Admin with some CivPro.

Yeah, I'm pissed they want us to know all of that useless law that less than .2% of the lawyers in this country ever end up using.

Don't worry though -- you also get to re-learn all the individual rights + First Am. law.

[071816]

I know scores on the essays don't matter much in the beginning (especially when we're still referencing notes as we write), but what's generally considered a passing essay score on the exam? I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

You're in CA, right? I think Anindita Dutta said aim for 65s for each essay and Performance Test.

Yup CA. Ok cool that sounds about right.

[kapital98]

Stupid question: I'm starting tomorrow. Do I read the long outlines before the lectures? Or do I do the lectures first?

[Genuine4ps]

Stupid question: I'm starting tomorrow. Do I read the long outlines before the lectures? Or do I do the lectures first?

There's been a rather lengthy discussion on this. There are essentially two camps: the first (apparently the majority) considers the outlines a time sink which could better be spent doing something else. The second feels like the outlines are helpful for them.

What you need to do is spend the next couple days studying, and you'll be able to determine for yourself what you like best.

But to more directly answer your question, the outline are meant to be read before the lecture.

[dudnaito]

Stupid question: I'm starting tomorrow. Do I read the long outlines before the lectures? Or do I do the lectures first?

No such thing as a stupid question. I'm a huge fan of asking unabashedly "stupid" questions. In fact, I believe that's the only reason I'm even remotely cognitively functional. I'm way too lazy to do lengthy research when someone else can tell me pronto with meticulous detail. It's just efficient, no?

An important distinction to make is that the suggestion "read outline," actually means "skim the outline." This is stated by Themis personnel as well. I'll give you what i think is the "best" game plan after experimenting on several different methods, and so far have reared by far the best results for me. Before we begin though, make sure you have all these materials:

1. Outline Book
2. Summary Outline
3. Subject "Handouts" (just print it all, and put it in a binder or spend a couple of bucks and make it into a binded "book" at Kinko's like me and some others have).



Sequence of Studying:

1. SKIM the subject outline. For god's sake, do not spend more than 4 hours on each subject (roughly around 60-80 pages). The only time I ever stopped and read and re-read over and over were minutiae that's just about NEVER tested anyway... (f'n Lecturer will tell you as much.. he'll be like, "yo, that stuff has a 1% chance of coming out on the exam, but you probably already spent 2 hours trying to memorize the exceptions to the exceptions to a minority rule, huh? Too f'n bad, moron." (Yup, in direct quotes). And the lecturer will also give you helpful examples to illuminate what's unnecessarily shrouded in a convoluted twist on the outline most of the time. Trust me, i went through 100 MBE questions on each subject I've gone through (granted only 3 MBE so far), and the minutiae content came out only once or twice. There's no sense spending a 1/3 of your entire study time trying to memorize things that aren't going to be on the bar exam, a test of MINIMUM competence. The outline is meant as a reference material. I recommend going through maybe 3 Lectures at a time, using common sense to categorize accordingly, instead of marathoning the entire subject outline.

2) Print out subject handout (link is located right next to lecture videos; each MBE subject is anywhere from 60-70 pages usually, while shorter MEE subjects like Agency are only around 8-9 pages). This should be your core studying material. You'll be writing your notes on this handout during each lecture presumably. The handout content is word-for-word key portions of the lecture.

3) Watch lecture while writing notes and filling in the blanks on your handout.

4) Print out summary outline for every MBE and MEE subject (you might not have gotten a link yet, i just asked them for mine earlier cause i'm a bosssss). They should have either emailed it to you, or check under "my communications." Each jurisdiction seems to have a different timeline for when Themis decides to send these to you.

5) Write flashcards (i.e. Anki, Quizlet, toilet paper, whatever suits you)

6) Memorize.

7) Practice Questions, MBE, MEE, etc...

Eight) Profit... or you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is NEVER TRY.

[NC1]

What are these summary outlines you speak of..

Definitely didn't remember 50% of what I read while spending a bunch of time on the detailed outline. I feel like I wasted 3 days. as I get shit wrong on these PQs.