Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[numbertwo88]

The essay topics are still terrifying me ... specifically commercial paper and secured transactions.

I'll have a heart attack if they show up on Thursday.

[lawyerwannabe]

Commercial paper is no longer on the exam. And secured transactions shows up like once every 10 exams (i.e. every five years). I have a good feeling it will not be on this exam.

[Tanicius]

Commercial paper is no longer on the exam. And secured transactions shows up like once every 10 exams (i.e. every five years). I have a good feeling it will not be on this exam.

You're talking about New York, not the rest of us taking random other jurisdictions.

[Bildungsroman]

Commercial paper is no longer on the exam. And secured transactions shows up like once every 10 exams (i.e. every five years). I have a good feeling it will not be on this exam.

You're talking about New York, not the rest of us taking random other jurisdictions.

There's a world beyond New York?

j/k taking Colorado here.

[jr8966]

Yeah in Texas both secured transactions and commercial paper are almost guaranteed. #whatwasithinking?

[Tanicius]

Yeah in Texas both secured transactions and commercial paper are almost guaranteed. #whatwasithinking?

I knew nothing about these subjects and studied them really intensively for a few weeks. I now kind of want them to be on the bar because the expectations they probably have for a good score on those subjects are going to be really fucking low. "This guy used holder in due course. I'm giving him a few points. He even remembered to talk about giving value, wow, he's a genius!"

Also, I bet most graders have no idea what the difference between a right or wrong answer even is for those subjects, since most of them are not themselves versed in it. My highest Themis essay grade was for a secured transactions essay that did not even spot more than 30% of the issues. LOL

[mmmnnn]

I'm in a quasi-UBE state, where Secured Transactions and Commercial Paper typically alternate. It's time for CP, but who knows whether they'll draft a question with it being the final year. Why didn't they just omit CP for this exam???

[jigglypuffdreams]

Yeah, I'm in Michigan, which is a "commercial paper hasn't been tested once in the past ten years" jurisdiction, so I've learned holder in due course and "what is a negotiable instrument" and left it at that. Secured transactions has shown up 4 times in the past 10 years so I'm learning PMSI and priorities and what a security interest is and maybe some basic remedies. There are also 15 essays (14 or 15 seem to be tested nearly every time) on each exam so I can balance things out a bit if bad luck happens. Idk, maybe my strategy is paying off and I'll be able to spit out something important out if I get a weird subject, but that's how I'm going about it.

[Prime]

The f-ers in Texas like to mix Secured and Commercial into one essay from time to time!

[numbertwo88]

The f-ers in Texas like to mix Secured and Commercial into one essay from time to time!

I'd literally die

[Apple Tree]

I'm scared to death of CA essays. I just know that they will throw in some weird stuff and make some of the essays really hard. I just hope I will be calm enough to give a passing answer. And I've been neglecting MBE for the essays and now all this talk of people's MBE score going down...

[mizunoami]

A seller agreed to sell and a buyer agreed to buy a described lot on which a single-family residence had been built. Under the contract, the seller agreed to convey marketable title subject only to conditions, covenants, and restrictions of record and all applicable zoning laws and ordinances. The lot was subject to a 10-foot side line setback originally set forth in the developer's duly recorded subdivision plot. The applicable zoning ordinance zones the property for single-family units and requires an 8.5-foot side line setback. Prior to closing, a survey of the property was made. It revealed that a portion of the seller's house was 8.4 feet from the side line. The buyer refused to consummate the transaction on the ground that the seller's title is not marketable. In an appropriate action, the seller seeks specific performance.

Who will prevail in such an action?
A. The seller, because any suit against the buyer concerning the setback would be frivolous.
B. The seller, because the setback violation falls within the doctrine de minimis non curat lex.
C. The buyer, because any variation, however small, amounts to a breach of contract.
D. The buyer, because the fact that the buyer may be exposed to litigation is sufficient to make the title unmarketable.

This is what I hate about Themis questions. They bust out with legal phrases that are never used anywhere in the outlines or lectures, and expect us to just be like, oh yea when I was at Hogwarts Law School, I totally learned that spell.

*waves wand* De minimis non curat lex!

[Tanicius]

A seller agreed to sell and a buyer agreed to buy a described lot on which a single-family residence had been built. Under the contract, the seller agreed to convey marketable title subject only to conditions, covenants, and restrictions of record and all applicable zoning laws and ordinances. The lot was subject to a 10-foot side line setback originally set forth in the developer's duly recorded subdivision plot. The applicable zoning ordinance zones the property for single-family units and requires an 8.5-foot side line setback. Prior to closing, a survey of the property was made. It revealed that a portion of the seller's house was 8.4 feet from the side line. The buyer refused to consummate the transaction on the ground that the seller's title is not marketable. In an appropriate action, the seller seeks specific performance.

Who will prevail in such an action?
A. The seller, because any suit against the buyer concerning the setback would be frivolous.
B. The seller, because the setback violation falls within the doctrine de minimis non curat lex.
C. The buyer, because any variation, however small, amounts to a breach of contract.
D. The buyer, because the fact that the buyer may be exposed to litigation is sufficient to make the title unmarketable.

This is what I hate about Themis questions. They bust out with legal phrases that are never used anywhere in the outlines or lectures, and expect us to just be like, oh yea when I was at Hogwarts Law School, I totally learned that spell.

*waves wand* De minimis non curat lex!

That shit will happen to you on the actual bar exam though. That's what's scary. For the Spring 2014 administration of the MPRE, almost everyone freaked out over one question in particular that used a source of law none of us had been instructed on.

[Lasers]

I am 100% convinced the Themis later mixed are more difficult than anything else. I took the AB 2011 NCBE and scored well over 75%. I was struggling to hit 65% on the later mixed sets, and I do mean struggling.

This anecdote made me feel better. Thank you.

this is no joke. i'm taking an official online MBE practice exam from the NCBE and i can immediately tell it's much, much easier.

the questions are shorter than themis' and the answer choices are less of a toss up than themis or barbri. i was in need of rebuilding my confidence and this did it. i was scoring at 50-60% recently on the practice and i'm at 85% so far on this "official" sample...

[Lolek]

Is the answer supposed to be B? Cause I'd go with D

[mizunoami]

A seller agreed to sell and a buyer agreed to buy a described lot on which a single-family residence had been built. Under the contract, the seller agreed to convey marketable title subject only to conditions, covenants, and restrictions of record and all applicable zoning laws and ordinances. The lot was subject to a 10-foot side line setback originally set forth in the developer's duly recorded subdivision plot. The applicable zoning ordinance zones the property for single-family units and requires an 8.5-foot side line setback. Prior to closing, a survey of the property was made. It revealed that a portion of the seller's house was 8.4 feet from the side line. The buyer refused to consummate the transaction on the ground that the seller's title is not marketable. In an appropriate action, the seller seeks specific performance.

Who will prevail in such an action?
A. The seller, because any suit against the buyer concerning the setback would be frivolous.
B. The seller, because the setback violation falls within the doctrine de minimis non curat lex.
C. The buyer, because any variation, however small, amounts to a breach of contract.
D. The buyer, because the fact that the buyer may be exposed to litigation is sufficient to make the title unmarketable.

This is what I hate about bar exam questions. They bust out with legal phrases that are never used anywhere in the outlines or lectures, and expect us to just be like, oh yea when I was at Hogwarts Law School, I totally learned that spell.

*waves wand* De minimis non curat lex!

That shit will happen to you on the actual bar exam though. That's what's scary. For the Spring 2014 administration of the MPRE, almost everyone freaked out over one question in particular that used a source of law none of us had been instructed on.

FTFY

[Kiwi917]

I am 100% convinced the Themis later mixed are more difficult than anything else. I took the AB 2011 NCBE and scored well over 75%. I was struggling to hit 65% on the later mixed sets, and I do mean struggling.

This anecdote made me feel better. Thank you.

this is no joke. i'm taking an official online MBE practice exam from the NCBE and i can immediately tell it's much, much easier.

the questions are shorter than themis' and the answer choices are less of a toss up than themis or barbri. i was in need of rebuilding my confidence and this did it. i was scoring at 50-60% recently on the practice and i'm at 85% so far on this "official" sample...

The NCBE info packet has a set of 18 questions that I found very reassuring - for those who don't have adaptibar or want to shell out $50 for a full set from NCBE, I'd suggest checking it out. Only takes a half hour. --LinkRemoved--

Also some useful info in there about the test day. For example, I had no idea we couldn't use earplugs on MBE day, apparently that's only allowed on the CA writing days. And what is it about not allowing mechanical pencils for multiple choice tests? Is it the clicking noise? The thought someone might try to hide notes inside? A secret plot to keep the makers of regular #2 pencils in business?

[schweitziro]

I am 100% convinced the Themis later mixed are more difficult than anything else. I took the AB 2011 NCBE and scored well over 75%. I was struggling to hit 65% on the later mixed sets, and I do mean struggling.

This anecdote made me feel better. Thank you.

this is no joke. i'm taking an official online MBE practice exam from the NCBE and i can immediately tell it's much, much easier.

the questions are shorter than themis' and the answer choices are less of a toss up than themis or barbri. i was in need of rebuilding my confidence and this did it. i was scoring at 50-60% recently on the practice and i'm at 85% so far on this "official" sample...

I've been scoring high 60s but last night I took a practice set which was low 50s and had my anxiety peak for the first time about this thing. Granted, I'm IL, so I really shouldn't.

But, taking the NCBE has made me feel a bit better. I agree, the questions are much simpler and shorter. However, I think my score is a bit inflated because I definitely recalled a few answers that were licensed by Themis.

[Gotti]

Is the answer supposed to be B? Cause I'd go with D

it's D

[cooperlaserpup]

I am 100% convinced the Themis later mixed are more difficult than anything else. I took the AB 2011 NCBE and scored well over 75%. I was struggling to hit 65% on the later mixed sets, and I do mean struggling.

This anecdote made me feel better. Thank you.

this is no joke. i'm taking an official online MBE practice exam from the NCBE and i can immediately tell it's much, much easier.

the questions are shorter than themis' and the answer choices are less of a toss up than themis or barbri. i was in need of rebuilding my confidence and this did it. i was scoring at 50-60% recently on the practice and i'm at 85% so far on this "official" sample...

I've been scoring high 60s but last night I took a practice set which was low 50s and had my anxiety peak for the first time about this thing. Granted, I'm IL, so I really shouldn't.

But, taking the NCBE has made me feel a bit better. I agree, the questions are much simpler and shorter. However, I think my score is a bit inflated because I definitely recalled a few answers that were licensed by Themis.

I read your post as "granted I'm a 1L" instead of Illinois and was ready to smack you upside the head!! Thansk for the info, Going to try some NBCE tomorrow after I finish up Themis.

[DavidB]

*waves wand* De minimis non curat lex!

There was an early Themis MBE question for which "fructus naturales" was the determining factor.

[schweitziro]

I've been scoring high 60s but last night I took a practice set which was low 50s and had my anxiety peak for the first time about this thing. Granted, I'm IL, so I really shouldn't.

But, taking the NCBE has made me feel a bit better. I agree, the questions are much simpler and shorter. However, I think my score is a bit inflated because I definitely recalled a few answers that were licensed by Themis.

I read your post as "granted I'm a 1L" instead of Illinois and was ready to smack you upside the head!! Thansk for the info, Going to try some NBCE tomorrow after I finish up Themis.

That would be some ultimate gunner shit. Taking bar review courses each summer for 3 years.

[dtl]

Themis purposefully oversimplifies as part of their strategy. I have a Barbri and a Kaplan friend and we talk a lot, and they learn a lot more latin and a lot more depth about certain subjects. The MBE sometimes has the nuance in it, but very rarely, and the essays you just put in as much as you know so it is not as big a deal.

Things like;

Donatio causa mortis
Dumpor's Case Rule
Use immunity and Use-derivative immunity are actually two different concepts traditionally.

There were others that I can not think of off the top of my head.

[mmmnnn]

Let's say A and B conspire to steal money. They then steal the money and are both guilty of larceny. Now let's say A tells B, "Hold on to my share, please." B ends up stealing A's share. Why is B's crime against A larceny rather than embezzlement? Is it impossible for B to be in "lawful possession" of A's property under these facts? I've tended to think of embezzlement as taking money/things that you've been given permission to hold (absent fraud/trickery), which seems satisfied here.

[Tanicius]

Let's say A and B conspire to steal money. They then steal the money and are both guilty of larceny. Now let's say A tells B, "Hold on to my share, please." B ends up stealing A's share. Why is B's crime against A larceny rather than embezzlement? Is it impossible for B to be in "lawful possession" of A's property under these facts? I've tended to think of embezzlement as taking money/things that you've been given permission to hold (absent fraud/trickery), which seems satisfied here.

I view embezzlement as more of a legal "title" issue, not legal possession. You're given legal control over the money and entrusted with a fiduciary duty over it. It's something that can't really be created absent some formal transaction agreement. It's why a teller at a bank cannot embezzle, but the bank manager can.