Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[kapital98]

62% on the 2013 MBE exam.

I was really hoping I was out of the woods on the MBE. Looks like I have more work to do this weekend. The strange thing was that I did worst on my best topics (Evidence/Con Law) and best on my worst (Property/Contracts). It's the exact opposite of my last practice exam.

[MICritter]

Am I the only one who that the essay exam would be graded by someone else?

[Lasers]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!

is that real? the least they could've done was applied whatever facts there were to that sentence...

i'm not expecting to be much better though, so...

[Lasers]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

Same thing happened to me. High 60s to low 70s, went to do essays for a few days and BOOM. MBEs have now plummeted. I don't know what happened. SCARY. I got so many wrong in a row that I just quit. Have to build up my courage to face them again.

I'm in the same boat.. except I went from the high 60's to just over 50%...
I want to power through them, but now I find myself second and third guessing myself

yeah, it's messing with my thought process now. i'm second guessing myself at every turn because of how poorly i've been doing.

[cooperlaserpup]

62% on the 2013 MBE exam.

I was really hoping I was out of the woods on the MBE. Looks like I have more work to do this weekend. The strange thing was that I did worst on my best topics (Evidence/Con Law) and best on my worst (Property/Contracts). It's the exact opposite of my last practice exam.

I don't know what state you are in but I wouldn't be too discouraged, that would scale to a passing score in most jurisdictions. I completely understand the feeling of wanting an extra cushion, but with a few days to go a passing score is pretty great!

[puttycake]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!

is that real? the least they could've done was applied whatever facts there were to that sentence...

i'm not expecting to be much better though, so...

The people at Bar Essays claim these things are real. They really are pretty entertaining to read, and they make things feel a lot more manageable, at least for me.

I don't think you'd be blown away by the examples that got 65s either, though they are certainly better than the 45.

There are lots of errors--spelling, grammar, law, and logic errors--even in the good essays. Don't think you have to be perfect because you so don't have to be.

[northwood]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

Same thing happened to me. High 60s to low 70s, went to do essays for a few days and BOOM. MBEs have now plummeted. I don't know what happened. SCARY. I got so many wrong in a row that I just quit. Have to build up my courage to face them again.

I'm in the same boat.. except I went from the high 60's to just over 50%...
I want to power through them, but now I find myself second and third guessing myself

yeah, it's messing with my thought process now. i'm second guessing myself at every turn because of how poorly i've been doing.

im gonna bite the bullet, and go out on a limb.. i'm going to get a nice buzz then fall a sleep and see how i do with them in the AM... i should have done this last night, taken today off from MBE's and then tried it again....

[northwood]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.




time management issues?

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!

[dtl]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!

That is kind of epic. Is it an outlier? I would love to have a better idea of where our actual answers have to be. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for an essay db. In hindsight it might have helped my sanity.

[puttycake]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!

That is kind of epic. Is it an outlier? I would love to have a better idea of where our actual answers have to be. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for an essay db. In hindsight it might have helped my sanity.

Yeah, that one is definitely an outlier. Bar Essays is all essays by people who failed the exam, but it's rare to see anything below a 50 on there.

There's a book titled something like What Not to Write that's a lot cheaper than the databases and might help those who are still freaking out. I don't remember the authors. I think they have ones for various states. They have a half dozen essays or thereabouts.

[mmmnnn]

Really hoping to avoid Trusts and Property on the MEE.... Otherwise feeling somewhat ok on the essays. Can't imagine what you guys who have state-specific stuff are going through, but I'm sure you'll rock it. And at least everyone in your state will be in the same boat.

[lawyerwannabe]

Just because I was freaking out earlier today, I want to share what I did that helped.

I read through a MBE subject outline religiously and then went back and reviewed every question that I got wrong on all my mixed sets and the simulated MBE. By review I mean I tried to answer the question. If I still got it wrong, I drilled that into my brain (whether it was a new point or one that I just could not get my head around). Did this for two subjects and took a mixed set and got 85%.

It really is just all about the grind. Grind through and the scores will show your effort.

[Prime]

TX Oil&Gas + Real property essays are either ridiculously easy or require an open set of notes to even reply in a reasonable manner.

As for the MBE sets, after the shitshow that was 9-13, my scores have been on the rise. Back into the mid-60's.

[kapital98]

What's the typical range of scores for NY essays? I'm strong on about half the subjects, mediocre on most, and weak on a couple. I'm trying to figure out what a median score is for an essay.

[champ33]

What's the typical range of scores for NY essays? I'm strong on about half the subjects, mediocre on most, and weak on a couple. I'm trying to figure out what a median score is for an essay.

I heard somewhere that most people get between 4.5 and 5.5. I am still really confused about essay scoring, i.e. what the maximum score per essay is, etc. I have hovered between being told and believing that you can screw up significantly and still get an average score and being freaked out by all the model answers and thinking I'm going to fail.

[northwood]

i heard around a 4

[TitoSantana]

It is very important you all watch this link in its entirety to pass the bar exam. You're welcome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKSVXp03Ytk

[SilverE2]

It is very important you all watch this link in its entirety to pass the bar exam. You're welcome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKSVXp03Ytk

[lawyerwannabe]

What's the typical range of scores for NY essays? I'm strong on about half the subjects, mediocre on most, and weak on a couple. I'm trying to figure out what a median score is for an essay.

I heard somewhere that most people get between 4.5 and 5.5. I am still really confused about essay scoring, i.e. what the maximum score per essay is, etc. I have hovered between being told and believing that you can screw up significantly and still get an average score and being freaked out by all the model answers and thinking I'm going to fail.

I heard this as well. And the median score (at least scaled) CANNOT be a four. The median scaled score, at least based on passing rates, has to be a little above a five I would think . . .

[kapital98]

What's the typical range of scores for NY essays? I'm strong on about half the subjects, mediocre on most, and weak on a couple. I'm trying to figure out what a median score is for an essay.

I heard somewhere that most people get between 4.5 and 5.5. I am still really confused about essay scoring, i.e. what the maximum score per essay is, etc. I have hovered between being told and believing that you can screw up significantly and still get an average score and being freaked out by all the model answers and thinking I'm going to fail.

I heard this as well. And the median score (at least scaled) CANNOT be a four. The median scaled score, at least based on passing rates, has to be a little above a five I would think . . .

It just feels to me that the essay section is one huge trolling excercise. It's almost impossible to bomb it or do amazing. Meanwhile, it's relatively easy to either bomb or ace the MBE.

[champ33]

What's the typical range of scores for NY essays? I'm strong on about half the subjects, mediocre on most, and weak on a couple. I'm trying to figure out what a median score is for an essay.

I heard somewhere that most people get between 4.5 and 5.5. I am still really confused about essay scoring, i.e. what the maximum score per essay is, etc. I have hovered between being told and believing that you can screw up significantly and still get an average score and being freaked out by all the model answers and thinking I'm going to fail.

I heard this as well. And the median score (at least scaled) CANNOT be a four. The median scaled score, at least based on passing rates, has to be a little above a five I would think . . .

I didn't even realize essays were scaled. Oh well. Just going to give it my best shot and hope that average/passing looks significantly worse than the model answers.

[blue920]

I hate incidental vs. intended beneficiary questions! Can someone please explain this to me? I understand that only intended beneficiaries can sue to enforce the contract, but I don't understand why the tenants are not intended beneficiaries. Do they have to be named in the contract?

(This is a NY MC question)

Utility Company provided electricity to a commercial building pursuant to a contract with Landlord. Although the contract between Landlord and Utility Company made no mention of the tenants for whom the electricity was being provided, the building was obviously home to multiple commercial tenants. As is customary with commercial tenancies, the tenants reimbursed Landlord for their electricity usage pursuant to terms within their commercial leases. Utility Company breached the terms of its contract with Landlord and failed to provide electricity for almost one week. Commercial Tenant brought suit against Utility Company for damages resulting from its breach of contract.

How should the court rule?
A. For Commercial Tenant, because it was an incidental beneficiary of the contract.
B. For Utility Company, because the tenants were incidental beneficiaries of the contracts.
C. For Commercial Tenant, because it was an intended beneficiary of the contract.
D. For Utility Company, because the tenants were intended beneficiaries of the contract.

Answer choice B is correct. An intended beneficiary is one to whom the promisee either wishes to make a gift of the promised performance or wishes to satisfy an obligation to pay money owed by the promisee to the beneficiary. The promisee must have an intention to benefit the third party, or the beneficiary is incidental. An incidental beneficiary is one who benefits from a contract, even though there is no contractual intent to benefit that person. An incidental beneficiary has no rights to enforce the contract. Thus, answer choice A is incorrect. Here, Commercial Tenant cannot seek recovery as a third-party intended beneficiary of the contract between Landlord and Utility Company because there is nothing in the agreement that identifies it as an intended beneficiary of the agreement. Thus, answer choices C and D are incorrect. If the defendant utility had expressly undertaken a contractual duty to supply electricity for the needs of customers, then the court would hold it liable to customers on a third-party beneficiary theory. However, in the instant case, there is no such express undertaking by the utility, and, consequently, there is no basis to allow the plaintiff's recovery on a third-party beneficiary theory.

[champ33]

I think the answer would be the same if it were MBE and yes it seems like in order to be intended the party has to be named or at least specifically identified in some other way. One way I've thought about it is if the party is replaceable, they are incidental, i.e. a tenant or a supplier of goods who isn't named in the contract but ends up getting chosen by one or both parties during the performance phase.

[84Sunbird2000]

62% on the 2013 MBE exam.

I was really hoping I was out of the woods on the MBE. Looks like I have more work to do this weekend. The strange thing was that I did worst on my best topics (Evidence/Con Law) and best on my worst (Property/Contracts). It's the exact opposite of my last practice exam.

Wait... how did you get access to the 2013 MBE?

[blue920]

I think the answer would be the same if it were MBE and yes it seems like in order to be intended the party has to be named or at least specifically identified in some other way. One way I've thought about it is if the party is replaceable, they are incidental, i.e. a tenant or a supplier of goods who isn't named in the contract but ends up getting chosen by one or both parties during the performance phase.

Alright, thanks, that's helpful. I'm going to keep that in mind, because apparently I lack the instinct to properly distinguish between incidental and intended beneficiaries. Seriously, I don't think I've gotten a single one right.