Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[seeladyliv]

@seeladyliv: how many MBE problems had you done overall? I don't think anyone here is just avoiding MBE's from here on out, but for me at least I've done nearly 1300 of them, and my scores have evened out despite whether I feel alert or exhausted, so I'm not terribly worried about that at this point. Will still do MBE's to stay fresh, but feel like, especially with your story, that it would help if we weren't so exhausted going into it.

I don't really remember how many MBEs i did but my themis progress was a little over 80%. i didn't completely stop taking the MBEs i would just do 50 a day or every other day (also had to move out of my apartment the week before the exam) so i think being hit with 200 when i was tired and hadn't done a complete 200 set was really hard on me. I wouldn't have called myself a slacker and i went to a good law school so i think i was just not ready for the head fuck that is the bar exam. the first day i felt went by fast. you're all nerves, regurgitating everything you can remember, and then its done. the second day didn't have the same thrill, it was just tiring and dragged on (for me at least) so i was definitely losing concentration when i needed it most.

[seeladyliv]

Isn't a 133 on the MBE a passable score?[/quote]

133 scaled you're in danger territory. Sorry that you had that experience Seeladyliv but thanks for the advice, duly noted.[/quote]



In some UBE states my collective score would have been a pass. but not my state. I don't know what my raw score was, i assume somewhere around 115-120ish, which was 20-30 points lower then what i had been scoring on my practice MBEs.

[always_raining]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

[Confused7]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

Honestly, I feel like doing MPTs at this point is a huge time suck. Just know the generally important rules:

1) Objective or subjective tone
2) Audience - lay or legal
3) Organization is important - make headings
4) Look at the case dates/courts that they give you, including cases within cases
5) Format it correctly if it's a memo ("To: Assigning Partner,"etc)
6) Look at the statutes that matter (not all of them might matter)
7) Talk about the other side's arguments (downplay them more if it's a subjective piece of writing)

Don't know if I'm missing any, but these are the ones that come to mind. I feel that if you remember these they should be applicable the day of. It's just not worth it to do 3 hours of a MPT at this point.

[Raiden]

Finished milestone exam 3, but can't access it on my tab because I opened the tab and closed it accidentally. Now I can't enter in my questions until tomorrow. Thanks Themis.

[greenmachine900]

i've stalked this board but i am completely losing it right now. i was hanging out around the 60s (sometimes higher, sometimes lower), but the past few days and sets i'm doing AWFULLY. like every day is worse and worse (66, 62, 54, 46). my confidence is below the basement right now.

[eloise16]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

Honestly, I feel like doing MPTs at this point is a huge time suck. Just know the generally important rules:

1) Objective or subjective tone
2) Audience - lay or legal
3) Organization is important - make headings
4) Look at the case dates/courts that they give you, including cases within cases
5) Format it correctly if it's a memo ("To: Assigning Partner,"etc)
6) Look at the statutes that matter (not all of them might matter)
7) Talk about the other side's arguments (downplay them more if it's a subjective piece of writing)

Don't know if I'm missing any, but these are the ones that come to mind. I feel that if you remember these they should be applicable the day of. It's just not worth it to do 3 hours of a MPT at this point.

Can someone please explain to me when the legal authority is persuasive versus when it's binding in the MPT?? I know this it probably easy peasy but because we're in make believe la la land it confuses the heck out of me.

[always_raining]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

Honestly, I feel like doing MPTs at this point is a huge time suck. Just know the generally important rules:

1) Objective or subjective tone
2) Audience - lay or legal
3) Organization is important - make headings
4) Look at the case dates/courts that they give you, including cases within cases
5) Format it correctly if it's a memo ("To: Assigning Partner,"etc)
6) Look at the statutes that matter (not all of them might matter)
7) Talk about the other side's arguments (downplay them more if it's a subjective piece of writing)

Don't know if I'm missing any, but these are the ones that come to mind. I feel that if you remember these they should be applicable the day of. It's just not worth it to do 3 hours of a MPT at this point.

Can someone please explain to me when the legal authority is persuasive versus when it's binding in the MPT?? I know this it probably easy peasy but because we're in make believe la la land it confuses the heck out of me.

You're in the state of Franklin or the District of Franklin in the 15th circuit (or something). So when it's the Supreme Court of Franklin or an Appellate Court in 15th Circuit or the US Supreme Court (never seen the US Supreme Court but ya never know) then it's binding. If its another district court in a different district then it's not binding. Basically same rules as always.

[Confused7]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

Honestly, I feel like doing MPTs at this point is a huge time suck. Just know the generally important rules:

1) Objective or subjective tone
2) Audience - lay or legal
3) Organization is important - make headings
4) Look at the case dates/courts that they give you, including cases within cases
5) Format it correctly if it's a memo ("To: Assigning Partner,"etc)
6) Look at the statutes that matter (not all of them might matter)
7) Talk about the other side's arguments (downplay them more if it's a subjective piece of writing)

Don't know if I'm missing any, but these are the ones that come to mind. I feel that if you remember these they should be applicable the day of. It's just not worth it to do 3 hours of a MPT at this point.

Can someone please explain to me when the legal authority is persuasive versus when it's binding in the MPT?? I know this it probably easy peasy but because we're in make believe la la land it confuses the heck out of me.

You're in the state of Franklin or the District of Franklin in the 15th circuit (or something). So when it's the Supreme Court of Franklin or an Appellate Court in 15th Circuit or the US Supreme Court (never seen the US Supreme Court but ya never know) then it's binding. If its another district court in a different district then it's not binding. Basically same rules as always.

This. For example, if the case from the sister state of either Columbia or Olympia, then it's persuasive.

[eloise16]

I've never posted here before but as someone who took a UBE bar exam last July and did not pass (by 11 point!) and redoing themis now, i thought i would offer my opinion. My essays and mpt (50% of my exam points) wasn't great (132) but it was fine considering some rules popped up i had never heard of and i had to make them up and i hadn't looked over crim law in over a week because i was confident i knew it and it wasn't likely to be on the exam (that bit me in the ass). anyways my MBE score was the real shocker (133) i had previously done pretty well on them but on the day of the exam i was EXHAUSTED. like many of you studying for two + months was killing me and i had gotten off directed study and was doing my own thing. i avoided doing too many MBEs at the end because i hated seeing my scores and just studied outlines. this was a mistake for me. i had not done a set of 200 MBEs before exam day and i had only done a set of 100 twice ( i mean sitting for a whole uninterrupted set). on exam day i was tired from months of studying, from crappy sleep worrying about my essays, and just general test anxiety that when i got to the second set of MBE's i was ready to just start guessing on them. I felt like i couldn't even read anymore and i think this caused me to really mess up my score. my advice, for whatever it's worth, practice at least one set of 200 mbe and maybe a couple 100 sets if you have time and try to get some sleep.

How did you do on MPTs? I've only done 4 so far (including the 2 in the simulated exam) and plan to look through the rest but it seems like a bit of a waste of time when I need to memorize more. But still Im afraid I should just spend a day doing the ones I missed...

Honestly, I feel like doing MPTs at this point is a huge time suck. Just know the generally important rules:

1) Objective or subjective tone
2) Audience - lay or legal
3) Organization is important - make headings
4) Look at the case dates/courts that they give you, including cases within cases
5) Format it correctly if it's a memo ("To: Assigning Partner,"etc)
6) Look at the statutes that matter (not all of them might matter)
7) Talk about the other side's arguments (downplay them more if it's a subjective piece of writing)

Don't know if I'm missing any, but these are the ones that come to mind. I feel that if you remember these they should be applicable the day of. It's just not worth it to do 3 hours of a MPT at this point.

Can someone please explain to me when the legal authority is persuasive versus when it's binding in the MPT?? I know this it probably easy peasy but because we're in make believe la la land it confuses the heck out of me.

You're in the state of Franklin or the District of Franklin in the 15th circuit (or something). So when it's the Supreme Court of Franklin or an Appellate Court in 15th Circuit or the US Supreme Court (never seen the US Supreme Court but ya never know) then it's binding. If its another district court in a different district then it's not binding. Basically same rules as always.

This. For example, if the case from the sister state of either Columbia or Olympia, then it's persuasive.

Thank you!

[UnamSanctam]

i've stalked this board but i am completely losing it right now. i was hanging out around the 60s (sometimes higher, sometimes lower), but the past few days and sets i'm doing AWFULLY. like every day is worse and worse (66, 62, 54, 46). my confidence is below the basement right now.

It's alright yo. I was in that pattern, took it easy for a day, and came back. Just keep studying and give yourself a little destresser for a day. You got this.

[always_raining]

i've stalked this board but i am completely losing it right now. i was hanging out around the 60s (sometimes higher, sometimes lower), but the past few days and sets i'm doing AWFULLY. like every day is worse and worse (66, 62, 54, 46). my confidence is below the basement right now.

What is your worst subject? Can you identify areas where you consistently get something wrong?

For me, when I was feeling bad about my scores, I would try to study an area I didnt understand well until I could get most of those types of questions correct.

[annapach]

I thought requirements Ks worded this way were totally kosher. Can someone please advise?

[+] Spoiler

Responding to a county's written advertisement for bids, a tire retailer was the successful bidder for the sale of tires to the county for the county's vehicles. The tire retailer and the county entered into a signed, written agreement that specified, "It is agreed that the tire retailer will deliver all tires required by this agreement to the county, in accordance with the attached bid form and specifications, for a one-year period beginning September 1, 2008." Attached to the agreement was a copy of the bid form and specifications. In the written advertisement to which the tire retailer had responded, but not in the bid form, the county had stated, "Multiple awards may be issued if they are in the best interests of the county." No definite quantity of tires to be bought by the county from the tire retailer was specified in any of these documents. In January 2009, the tire retailer learned that the county was buying some of its tires from one of the tire retailer's competitors. Contending that the agreement between the tire retailer and the county was a requirements contract, the tire retailer sued the county for the damages caused by the county's buying some of its tires from the competitor.

If the county defends by offering proof of the advertisement concerning the possibility of multiple awards, should the court admit the evidence?
AYes, because the provision in the written agreement, "all tires required by this agreement" is ambiguous.
BYes, because the advertisement was in writing.
CNo, because of the parol evidence rule. (I CHOSE THIS)
DNo, because it would make the contract illusory.


SUBMIT ANSWER

Sorry, that's not the best choice.

The answer you selected is not the best choice in this situation.

Answer choice A is correct. The wording of the agreement between the tire retailer and the county is ambiguous. Under the parol evidence rule, evidence may be admitted for the purpose of interpreting or clarifying an ambiguity in the agreement. Answer choice B is incorrect, as the fact that the advertisement was in writing does not control whether evidence about it would be admissible. What matters is that it would explain an ambiguity in the contract. Answer choice C is incorrect, as the parol evidence rule allows evidence to be admitted for the purpose of interpreting or clarifying an ambiguity in an agreement. Answer choice D is incorrect, as the admission of the advertisement would not make the contract illusory.

IS it because it's "ambiguous" in that it is what the parties are now fighting over?

[Mad Hatter]

The contract is kosher, but note that it doesn't say "all tires required by the county," it says "all tires required by this agreement." So the parol evidence rule can resolve that ambiguity.

[greenmachine900]

i've stalked this board but i am completely losing it right now. i was hanging out around the 60s (sometimes higher, sometimes lower), but the past few days and sets i'm doing AWFULLY. like every day is worse and worse (66, 62, 54, 46). my confidence is below the basement right now.

What is your worst subject? Can you identify areas where you consistently get something wrong?

For me, when I was feeling bad about my scores, I would try to study an area I didnt understand well until I could get most of those types of questions correct.

Thanks, Unam...much appreciated to know somebody else had a crash and burn.

that's sort of the most frustrating thing. civ pro is easily my worst, but lately it seems like even my strongest subjects are taking hits. maybe i'll try and just do no practice problems tomorrow i also think i let the interactive mode get me riled up and then i spiral. ugh. ready for this to be oooover.

also, i've seen people posting about this, but i actually used themis a couple of years ago (July 2013) for PA and passed on the first try. we had a couple of essay questions that were almost exactly the same as the practice ones (which i feel like is probably a comfort). and to disclaim...i'm working full time this time and woooooof.

[always_raining]

i've stalked this board but i am completely losing it right now. i was hanging out around the 60s (sometimes higher, sometimes lower), but the past few days and sets i'm doing AWFULLY. like every day is worse and worse (66, 62, 54, 46). my confidence is below the basement right now.

What is your worst subject? Can you identify areas where you consistently get something wrong?

For me, when I was feeling bad about my scores, I would try to study an area I didnt understand well until I could get most of those types of questions correct.

Thanks, Unam...much appreciated to know somebody else had a crash and burn.

that's sort of the most frustrating thing. civ pro is easily my worst, but lately it seems like even my strongest subjects are taking hits. maybe i'll try and just do no practice problems tomorrow i also think i let the interactive mode get me riled up and then i spiral. ugh. ready for this to be oooover.

also, i've seen people posting about this, but i actually used themis a couple of years ago (July 2013) for PA and passed on the first try. we had a couple of essay questions that were almost exactly the same as the practice ones (which i feel like is probably a comfort). and to disclaim...i'm working full time this time and woooooof.

Civ pro is hit or miss. I can easily write a civ pro essay but the MBE questions are all over the place. There are so many different number of days between motions and discovery...hard to remember! Also, I was seriously super good at property in the beginning, but started to get more and more of those wrong and now I don't feel very confident at all in property.

We all had horrible days with the MBEs. The MBE questions cycle to the topics you get wrong most consistently. It can be super frustrating! I think that's why, at least for me, the simulated exams and milestone exams were helpful, because the system wasn't trying to attack me with tons of questions in the areas I'm bad at.

Anyway — I wouldn't be so hard on yourself...if you're working AND studying, that's got to be difficult.

[Raiden]

California test takers, to have our laptops certified, all we have to do is just download the exams, or is there something else? I read something about signing a release from liability form, I don't know where that is. Perhaps we already signed it when we checked off being laptop users?

I just logged into the examsoft I already have on my computer with the bar credentials and downloaded everything easily. I just want to make sure I am not missing something.

[Pleasye]

California test takers, to have our laptops certified, all we have to do is just download the exams, or is there something else? I read something about signing a release from liability form, I don't know where that is. Perhaps we already signed it when we checked off being laptop users?

I just logged into the examsoft I already have on my computer with the bar credentials and downloaded everything easily. I just want to make sure I am not missing something.

You have to open the mock exam and submit it.

[Confused7]

Lol doing Adaptibar Civ Pro answers make me a double take every time because they are SO different from Themis' questions. Adaptibar uses the actual Rule numbers (ex. Rule 33d, etc) and also other obscure facts that I'm guessing we do not need to know...anyone else use Adaptibar have the same experience?

[eloise16]

Lol doing Adaptibar Civ Pro answers make me a double take every time because they are SO different from Themis' questions. Adaptibar uses the actual Rule numbers (ex. Rule 33d, etc) and also other obscure facts that I'm guessing we do not need to know...anyone else use Adaptibar have the same experience?

Omg if the actual bar questions only use rule numbers as answers or as answer indicators in the fact pattern I am in big trouble. Themis specifically said for evidence and civ pro that we don't need to know the actual rule numbers... so I'm hoping that was the truth!

[smalogna]

Isn't a 133 on the MBE a passable score?

133 scaled you're in danger territory. Sorry that you had that experience Seeladyliv but thanks for the advice, duly noted.[/quote]



In some UBE states my collective score would have been a pass. but not my state. I don't know what my raw score was, i assume somewhere around 115-120ish, which was 20-30 points lower then what i had been scoring on my practice MBEs.[/quote]

That scares me. I've been getting the scores I need in practice MBEs so I thought I was in the clear but if you took that much of a drastic drop in MBE from practices to the actual exam...

[annapach]

The contract is kosher, but note that it doesn't say "all tires required by the county," it says "all tires required by this agreement." So the parol evidence rule can resolve that ambiguity.

Oh ok I didn't read the question clearly enough. But just so I know: for the ambiguous terms exception to the PER, there has to be actual ambiguity right? You can't just be like "the K was per se ambiguous bc we're here now disputing it"

[Mad Hatter]

The contract is kosher, but note that it doesn't say "all tires required by the county," it says "all tires required by this agreement." So the parol evidence rule can resolve that ambiguity.

Oh ok I didn't read the question clearly enough. But just so I know: for the ambiguous terms exception to the PER, there has to be actual ambiguity right? You can't just be like "the K was per se ambiguous bc we're here now disputing it"

I think that's right. I want to say I've hit an MBE question where that was the issue, and yeah there has to be some sort of ambiguity. I the contract says "green eggs and ham" and you claim that it's ambiguous and during negotiations you said blue eggs and ham, I'm pretty sure that's a loser.

[Mad Hatter]

IL peeps: anyone do the administrative law PQ Essay? wtf? I couldn't even find the answer material in the long outline. If the real essays are like this, I'm fukt.

[anon sequitur]

is there any difference between doing a milestone exam with 100 MBE questions and just doing an MBE practice set with 100 questions? I'd hope that with a 100 questions you'd be getting a test-like sample of difficult and subjects. I just ask because I don't like reviewing my answers on the milestone page, it's just a wall of text.