Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Xifeng]

Again, what on earth were they smoking?

A man and his friend were watching a televised football game at the man's home. Upset by a penalty called by the referee, the friend threw a bottle of beer at the man's television, breaking the screen. Enraged, the man picked up a nearby hammer and hit the friend on the head with it. The friend died from the blow.

Sorry to detract from the thrilling felony murder rule. I've just given up on the tricky crap.

[Catleesi]

Just wanted to say one more quick good luck to everyone! You've got this!

And while I'm here, I don't know if this helps, but my understanding is the underlying crimes merge into felony murder for the MBE...

But you can still be charged for the underlying felonies, just not convicted. So if the question is like "What's this bro guilty of?" then you wanna say "all the things," and if it says "what can he be convicted of?" then stuff merges. You're guilty of everything you did, but you can't necessarily be convicted of it all. At least that's what I remember.

[mistermister]

How is everybody considering the national averages for each subject in the MBE's? How should we be feeling at the average? How much above average is enough to feel confident?

I was thinking that since the average Themis student passes, being at average should be reassuring, right?

[splitmuch]

How is everybody considering the national averages for each subject in the MBE's? How should we be feeling at the average? How much above average is enough to feel confident?

I was thinking that since the average Themis student passes, being at average should be reassuring, right?

It's not just the average student Themis student that passes, significantly below average themis students pass. If you are average, you should feel good.

[Prime]

I kinda wish they separated the initial question sets from the mixed sets. I know that some of my scores have significantly improved since I started.

[numbertwo88]

I kinda wish they separated the initial question sets from the mixed sets. I know that some of my scores have significantly improved since I started.

I'm the same. Some of my first sets were ... abysmal. And by some I mean most.

[Lasers]

How is everybody considering the national averages for each subject in the MBE's? How should we be feeling at the average? How much above average is enough to feel confident?

I was thinking that since the average Themis student passes, being at average should be reassuring, right?

It's not just the average student Themis student that passes, significantly below average themis students pass. If you are average, you should feel good.

isn't themis' pass rate like 80% for most of the states? i know in CA, it was around there. so yeah, more than just the themis students at or above the average will pass. statistically, a good percentage of people "below" the average do every year.

[simonesa]

1. I got a secured transactions question on a NY Wills essay. I haven't even looked at the Secured Transactions Outline, Handout or Lectures. However, realizing that every fact is in the prompt for a reason, I let the facts kind of guide me. They mentioned that the Creditor didn't record the security interest, and then later on, someone else sold the property. In my mind, that triggered a recording statutes type argument. I didn't get the specific law correct, but it was pretty close, and without knowing any secured transactions law at all, my analysis and conclusion were right on point. I really hope I can BS my way through some of these smaller essay topics on test day.

2. Why did I just pay $42.00 for lunch at Javits?!?!? I am a sucker...I know. But honestly, I am thinking about opening up my own Bar Exam Lunch service, maybe I can pay off my loans quicker. This better be the best wrap, juice, and chips I ever had in my life for $19.00 a day. I don't know why I didn't just ask someone to bring me lunch instead....

[lawyerwannabe]

Hey: Can anyone point me towards an example of an MPT answer with regarding factual gathering or problem solving as well as the format for a document being submitted to the court or a general letter to a client or other counsel? Thanks!

[cooperlaserpup]

I kinda wish they separated the initial question sets from the mixed sets. I know that some of my scores have significantly improved since I started.

I'm the same. Some of my first sets were ... abysmal. And by some I mean most.

I was just having this thought today. Are those "National Averages" under the progress tab supposed to show how everyone performs throughout the themis course on average, or the average score on the actual MBE? My learning curve has been from low 40s to upper 70s-80s for most subjects (except that pesky contracts!) so I'm still just below the national average for all but my strongest two subjects.

[jigglypuffdreams]

How is everybody considering the national averages for each subject in the MBE's? How should we be feeling at the average? How much above average is enough to feel confident?

I was thinking that since the average Themis student passes, being at average should be reassuring, right?

Plus they don't publish their pass rates based on "People who were awesome and got a ton of practice questions right," they publish them on people who complete 75% or more. So as long as you did a decent amount of stuff you should be reassured.

[SilverE2]

I kinda wish they separated the initial question sets from the mixed sets. I know that some of my scores have significantly improved since I started.

I'm the same. Some of my first sets were ... abysmal. And by some I mean most.

I was just having this thought today. Are those "National Averages" under the progress tab supposed to show how everyone performs throughout the themis course on average, or the average score on the actual MBE? My learning curve has been from low 40s to upper 70s-80s for most subjects (except that pesky contracts!) so I'm still just below the national average for all but my strongest two subjects.

I don't know the answer to your first question, but I'm below average on all but two as well, for the same reason as you, and I'm sure that's the case for many people. I generally score between 65%-75% on mixed sets and I feel okay about the test. Would like to get that up to a solid 70%+ consistently, but I'll see what I can do in these last few days.

[Lasers]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

[jumpingjack]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

I think part of it might be the disconnect of doing it on the computer versus doing it in the test booklet, and not being able to go back and check your work.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

Same thing happened to me. High 60s to low 70s, went to do essays for a few days and BOOM. MBEs have now plummeted. I don't know what happened. SCARY. I got so many wrong in a row that I just quit. Have to build up my courage to face them again.

[SilverE2]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

You know, I might be crazy. But I really feel like the later mixed sets are harder. I just took Mixed Session #9 and there were so many "what the fuck" questions in there. And a shitton of mortgage questions.

[northwood]

i'm pretty worried because my MBE scores have gotten worse in the past few days. i was at mid to high 60's% for a while and then after returning to them after doing essay prep for a few days, i'm closer to high 50's and low 60's right now. i don't know what's going on.

i'm having trouble concentrating/reading the questions. not sure what this means. i'll probably have to spend most of the weekend trying to get back on track.

Same thing happened to me. High 60s to low 70s, went to do essays for a few days and BOOM. MBEs have now plummeted. I don't know what happened. SCARY. I got so many wrong in a row that I just quit. Have to build up my courage to face them again.

I'm in the same boat.. except I went from the high 60's to just over 50%...
I want to power through them, but now I find myself second and third guessing myself

[mmmnnn]

I agree. Something's up with these later sets. There are a lot of questions where the answer spread is nearly 25/25/25/25 or 30/30/30/10. Those are bad questions.

I have about four mixed sets left. Do you guys think it's worth it to do those, or is my time better spent reviewing old questions (which I did a few weeks ago for the non-mixed sets)?

[SilverE2]

I agree. Something's up with these later sets. There are a lot of questions where the answer spread is nearly 25/25/25/25 or 30/30/30/10. Those are bad questions.

I have about four mixed sets left. Do you guys think it's worth it to do those, or is my time better spent reviewing old questions (which I did a few weeks ago for the non-mixed sets)?

Someone here had a lot of success reviewing old sets. For me, my scores didn't go up at all. Did it increase your scores when you did it before?

[jr8966]

Hang in there! FWIW I've completed up to problem set 16 of the mixed problems, and I noticed an increase in difficulty/wordiness in the questions in problem set 9-14. (Look at the murder/felony murder discussion in the previous pages) I also felt like there were more Themis created/revised questions. Having compared the Themis questions to the original released questions on Adaptibar, some questions are heavily revised. Like 2-3 facts/sentences added. The issues tested are the same, just more legwork. If you need a confidence boost and you can afford it, download an actual MBE exam.

Don't lose hope. Make sure you take a break, so you can "get dialed in" on test day.

[mmmnnn]

I agree. Something's up with these later sets. There are a lot of questions where the answer spread is nearly 25/25/25/25 or 30/30/30/10. Those are bad questions.

I have about four mixed sets left. Do you guys think it's worth it to do those, or is my time better spent reviewing old questions (which I did a few weeks ago for the non-mixed sets)?

Someone here had a lot of success reviewing old sets. For me, my scores didn't go up at all. Did it increase your scores when you did it before?

Kind of. I think it did in a few subjects, particularly Property and Evidence. But it's hard to say because there's always quasi-new stuff being tested.

I'll probably do a set tomorrow and a set Sunday, plus a little review of the old questions.

[mmmnnn]

Am I missing something obvious, or can the defendant be charged with Burglary based on this situation? Model answer omitted it. Perhaps because it was in the daytime? I wrote that the general rule was "at night," but most jurisdictions have abolished the requirement.

When Suspect returned from 10 months of overseas military duty, he was distraught to learn that his girlfriend, Judy, had married Suspect's best friend, Victor. One afternoon, Suspect saw Judy and Victor walking arm in arm in a shopping center. He approached them waving his clenched fist, angrily called Victor a traitor, and threatened Victor and Judy that he would beat them up "when you least expect it." Victor said, "You don't scare us." Suspect then shoved Victor and Judy and pushed his way past them.

The next day, Suspect took out his army pistol, muttering to his roommate, "I'm going to shoot a couple of rats." At about noon, armed with the pistol, Suspect climbed quietly through an open window at Victor's house at a time when he knew both Victor and Judy were there. Suspect confronted Victor and Judy in the living room and, pointing the pistol at Victor, said, "You stole my lady. Now you're going to pay the price. But first, take that gold watch off your wrist and give it to me." After Victor complied, Suspect shot and killed Victor.

Suspect then grabbed Judy and dragged her kicking and screaming into an upstairs bedroom. He forced her to undress and had sexual intercourse with her. He then pointed the pistol at her head and pulled the trigger. The pistol failed to discharge. Suspect then placed the pistol at Judy's neck and said, "You'd better not tell the police about any of this. If you do, I'll come back and finish the job." He then fled and was later arrested.

With what crimes can Suspect be charged? Explain fully, including an explanation of how the facts establish each element of each crime charged.

[Gotti]

LOOOOOLLL i just got 19 out of 50 Qs right on the NY state MC milestone exam. What a shitshow.

[Kiwi917]

I agree. Something's up with these later sets. There are a lot of questions where the answer spread is nearly 25/25/25/25 or 30/30/30/10. Those are bad questions.

I have about four mixed sets left. Do you guys think it's worth it to do those, or is my time better spent reviewing old questions (which I did a few weeks ago for the non-mixed sets)?

We don't all get the same mix of questions in each set, so I don't think it is possible to compare difficulty person to person. I have talked with friends taking Themis and we are not getting the same questions in the same sets at all. There is some overlap, but it seems mostly random. I only have a few left and feel like the last couple have been much easier, and very few of the answers have shown tough splits like 25/25/25/25.

I'm mostly using the "my progress" page to drill down and figure out what my weak areas are now that I have a big enough sample size of completed questions to show meaningful differences among the sub-topics. Focusing on those parts of the outlines has been more helpful than doing more questions, at least for me. I'm still doing something every day to keep in a routine and maintain my pacing, but I don't plan on doing any more huge mixed sets.

[puttycake]

For those in California, a little excerpt from a Conlaw essay that got a 45.

(It was a three part question about presidential powers.)

II. PREMPTION OF THE ACT
Supremacy Clause
if a federal
fill the field
if conflict, federal law controls

That was the entire answer to the second question. The answer to the third question was one complete sentence. The answer to the first question was 35 words.

I guarantee that if this got a 45, every single one of us can get 65s on everything we get questioned on!