Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

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Gotti

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Gotti » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:03 pm

splitmuch wrote:
Gotti wrote:It's not a present sense impression. Present sense impression is more like "damn, did you see that car run through the light?" as it was happening or literally RIGHT after (within seconds). It's always a verbal statement because of the timing requirement. So, a signed written statement like this one isn't a "present sense impression" but it can be used as a past recollection recorded if the witness can't remember, but it can only be admitted into evidence by the adverse party.

First of all, there have been present sense impressions upheld made up to 27 minutes after the fact. Second, typewritten meeting notes ten minutes after an meeting have been held to be present sense impressions, so it's not always verbal statements. Third, even Themis is saying its a present sense impression, but just saying "that doesn't make it admissible" which doesn't make any sense.
Oh, well I'd never heard of those holdings before. I had Professor Capra for Evidence and he's apparently the evidence god and he told my class that present sense impressions were how I described them above--that's what I'm basing my knowledge on. & that definition has never led me to the wrong answer. Sorry if I confused things further.

I agree though that the Themis person made no sense. Maybe he/she thinks there's a rule that only verbal statements are admissible as present sense impressions, so even though the guy's written statement was a present sense impression, it doesn't qualify under the exception? I have no idea.
Last edited by Gotti on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:04 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:For people whose states use the MEE, was Neal Newman (commercial paper) just a bad lecturer, or the worst lecturer?
Hahahaha.

Makers make noahts. Dru-awers dru-aw checks.

Okay. Hope you get down, we're diawled in. Gonna get diawled in and get this done.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by splitmuch » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:10 pm

Gotti wrote:
splitmuch wrote:
Gotti wrote:It's not a present sense impression. Present sense impression is more like "damn, did you see that car run through the light?" as it was happening or literally RIGHT after (within seconds). It's always a verbal statement because of the timing requirement. So, a signed written statement like this one isn't a "present sense impression" but it can be used as a past recollection recorded if the witness can't remember, but it can only be admitted into evidence by the adverse party.

First of all, there have been present sense impressions upheld made up to 27 minutes after the fact. Second, typewritten meeting notes ten minutes after an meeting have been held to be present sense impressions, so it's not always verbal statements. Third, even Themis is saying its a present sense impression, but just saying "that doesn't make it admissible" which doesn't make any sense.
Oh, well I'd never heard of those holdings before. I had Professor Capra for Evidence and he's apparently the evidence god and he told my class that present sense impressions were how I described them above--that's what I'm basing my knowledge on. & that definition has never led me to the wrong answer. Sorry if I confused things further.

I agree though that the Themis person made no sense. Maybe he/she thinks there's a rule that only verbal statements are admissible as present sense impressions, so even though the guy's written statement was a present sense impression, it doesn't qualify under the exception? I have no idea.
I was taught that the philosophy of the PSI exception is SUPPOSED to be what you've described, but in practice it has actually been expanded by courts.
I think the best explanation for the question is that Themis didn't even consider the PSI issue (probably operating under the type of thinking you expressed re PSI), but there is, at least, a colorable argument for it by putting "immediately."

Any I assume my Themis contact is just tired or something.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by northwood » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:10 pm

present sense impressions can be written down. its not common, but you can witness a hit and run accident and jot down the license plate # of the car that left the scene.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by dtl » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:17 pm

puttycake wrote:
bport hopeful wrote:Im gonna go on the meanest bender after this.
I need to take up drinking.

God, now we're moving to a new apartment on the Saturday after the exam. I would appreciate it if someone just shot me now. I won't mind. I'll leave you something in my will.
A human being would chuckle at this and have some sort of empathetic reaction given we are all in the same boat.

But all I could think of was "SLAYER RULE!" like I was spotting issues in an MBE problem. The bar exam has extinguished my soul.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by jigglypuffdreams » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:22 pm

dtl wrote:
puttycake wrote:
bport hopeful wrote:Im gonna go on the meanest bender after this.
I need to take up drinking.

God, now we're moving to a new apartment on the Saturday after the exam. I would appreciate it if someone just shot me now. I won't mind. I'll leave you something in my will.
A human being would chuckle at this and have some sort of empathetic reaction given we are all in the same boat.

But all I could think of was "SLAYER RULE!" like I was spotting issues in an MBE problem. The bar exam has extinguished my soul.
If it makes you feel better, I thought "inter vivos gifts given in contemplation of suicide are valid in Michigan!" So umm, we could figure out a way to make it work in our horrible bar-exam brains.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by 84Sunbird2000 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:26 pm

jigglypuffdreams wrote:So, just curious, has anyone tried out the "100 extra practice questions" at the end of the Multistate Workbook? I just tried a few of them and I can't tell if they're insanely difficult or I'm just losing steam.
I did the first 34, and yeah they were tougher. I missed the first five in a row and only got 24 out of 34. I'm too schizo right now to do all 100, but 24/34 (71%) is way worse than I've been averaging on the mixed sets online. That said, the mixed sets seem way too easy.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by puttycake » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:27 pm

I don't even have a will. So, if you want me to leave you something, you gotta give me some warning so that I can write one up. Holographic style, Obi-Wan.

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Bildungsroman

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:28 pm

mmmnnn wrote:So congress can neither expand nor limit the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction by statute. Congress can limit the Court's appellate jurisidiction, however. Can Congress expand the Court's appellate jurisdiction?
Congress enacted a statute providing that persons may challenge a state energy law on the ground that it is in conflict with the federal Constitution in either federal or state court. According to this federal statute, any decision by a lower state court upholding a state energy law against a challenge based on the federal Constitution may be appealed directly to the United States Supreme Court. The provisions of this statute that authorize direct United States Supreme Court review of specified decisions rendered by lower state courts are


Constitutional, because congressional control over questions of energy usage is plenary.
Constitutional, because Congress may establish the manner in which the appellate jurisdiction of the United States Supreme Court is exercised.
Unconstitutional, because they infringe on the sovereign right of states to have their supreme courts review decisions of their lower state courts.
Unconstitutional, because under Article III of the Constitution the United States Supreme Court does not have authority to review directly decisions of lower state courts.

Answer choice B is correct. The Supreme Court has the power to review state court decisions and statutes to ensure conformity with the U.S. Constitution "and under such regulations as the Congress shall make." The two means of establishing Supreme Court jurisdiction are (i) direct appeal and (ii) certiorari (discretionary review). Answer choice A is incorrect because energy questions do not create a special right. Answer choice C is incorrect because state supreme courts do not have such sovereign rights. The Supreme Court may have the power to review lower state court decisions. Answer choice D is incorrect because Congress can and has eliminated certain types of appeals, pursuant to Article III, Section 2.
Yes, Congress has the power to eliminate appeals, but here they're granting SCOTUS appellate jurisdiction it normally wouldn't have, right?
Giving SCOTUS the ability to hear a case from a particular (Art III or state) court is not an expansion of SCOTUS appellate jurisdiction beyond the ceiling set by Art III. Art III sets the maximum appellate jurisdiction for SCOTUS at "all cases" (that satisfy the other requirements, e.g. subject matter). Congress can limit the courts from which the Court can take appeals, but they're not required to.

And if you want support that this is actually the right answer in the world, historical and modern practice both conform to this understanding. Congress actually has changed the Supreme Court's appellate procedures quite a bit, especially in repeatedly amending the Judiciary Act to broaden the circumstances in which SCOTUS could hear appeals from state supreme court judgments. And keep in mind that, under Article III as currently construed, Congress could eliminate all federal courts of appeals and make the Supreme Court take appeals directly from the district courts and state courts. (Congress could even eliminate all circuit and district courts and shrink the Supreme Court to one person as justices die off.) And in the modern day SCOTUS sometimes takes a case directly from a district court or a state intermediate court without waiting for the normal levels of appeals to run their course, although this is rare. I think the cell phone search case this term was from an intermediate California court, for example.

The way to distinguish the other question you posed is, in my opinion, that there is no decision being reviewed and this would therefore not be an exercise of appellate jurisdiction.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by mpt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:31 pm

Hey everyone. I was finishing my TORTS handout from Law School Essentials with Mr. Clark when my computer crashed and I lost my pdf file :( I am heart broken to think that I will have to watch those classes again. Does anyone have up to page 49 filled out (of the 54 pages)? I'm on the last class right now :( THanks

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:31 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:
jigglypuffdreams wrote:So, just curious, has anyone tried out the "100 extra practice questions" at the end of the Multistate Workbook? I just tried a few of them and I can't tell if they're insanely difficult or I'm just losing steam.
I did the first 34, and yeah they were tougher. I missed the first five in a row and only got 24 out of 34. I'm too schizo right now to do all 100, but 24/34 (71%) is way worse than I've been averaging on the mixed sets online. That said, the mixed sets seem way too easy.
The answer for question 1 seems patently incorrect. It says that an identification of the defendant by a witness is only admissible at the current trial? That's not true -- it could be a prior trial or pre-trial hearing, provided the current defendant had the same opportunity and motive to cross examination as they would normally have at this trial if the witness were on the stand.
Last edited by Tanicius on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bildungsroman

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:34 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:For people whose states use the MEE, was Neal Newman (commercial paper) just a bad lecturer, or the worst lecturer?
Hahahaha.

Makers make noahts. Dru-awers dru-aw checks.

Okay. Hope you get down, we're diawled in. Gonna get diawled in and get this done.
His lecture really seemed like he was just seeing the outline and handout for the first time. He was just reading shit verbatim. Sometimes he would even recite an example and then move on without explaining or answering it. I think most of the Themis lecturers have been really good (e.g. Birdthistle, Kramer, that contracts guy with the caterpillar), but that series of lectures was worthless. It's a shame, because commercial paper is so foreign and counterintuitive that a good lecturer who knew what was happening and had some stage presence actually could have made a huge difference.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:35 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:For people whose states use the MEE, was Neal Newman (commercial paper) just a bad lecturer, or the worst lecturer?
Hahahaha.

Makers make noahts. Dru-awers dru-aw checks.

Okay. Hope you get down, we're diawled in. Gonna get diawled in and get this done.
His lecture really seemed like he was just seeing the outline and handout for the first time. He was just reading shit verbatim. Sometimes he would even recite an example and then move on without explaining or answering it. I think most of the Themis lecturers have been really good (e.g. Birdthistle, Kramer, that contracts guy with the caterpillar), but that series of lectures was worthless. It's a shame, because commercial paper is so foreign and counterintuitive that a good lecturer who knew what was happening and had some stage presence actually could have made a huge difference.
Agreed. He basically neglected to illustrate ANYTHING. Like he would define a holder in due course by its elements, but not actually explain what the fuck a holder in due course actually IS in plain English.

And that diagram? What the fuck was that? Just explain to me the situation in English, dude, and then use the diagram to explain.

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Gotti

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Gotti » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:35 pm

mpt wrote:Hey everyone. I was finishing my TORTS handout from Law School Essentials with Mr. Clark when my computer crashed and I lost my pdf file :( I am heart broken to think that I will have to watch those classes again. Does anyone have up to page 49 filled out (of the 54 pages)? I'm on the last class right now :( THanks
I actually do in a word doc, shoot me your email in a PM

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by 84Sunbird2000 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:38 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:For people whose states use the MEE, was Neal Newman (commercial paper) just a bad lecturer, or the worst lecturer?
Hahahaha.

Makers make noahts. Dru-awers dru-aw checks.

Okay. Hope you get down, we're diawled in. Gonna get diawled in and get this done.
His lecture really seemed like he was just seeing the outline and handout for the first time. He was just reading shit verbatim. Sometimes he would even recite an example and then move on without explaining or answering it. I think most of the Themis lecturers have been really good (e.g. Birdthistle, Kramer, that contracts guy with the caterpillar), but that series of lectures was worthless. It's a shame, because commercial paper is so foreign and counterintuitive that a good lecturer who knew what was happening and had some stage presence actually could have made a huge difference.
I honestly think Banks from Federal Income Tax was the worst. He wasn't informative AND he didn't follow the outline almost at all.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by dtl » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:41 pm

puttycake wrote:I don't even have a will. So, if you want me to leave you something, you gotta give me some warning so that I can write one up. Holographic style, Obi-Wan.
I will totally shoot you, but you have to give me your stuff donatio causa mortis. Also it must be symbolic delivery of something cool. Like a stick figure drawing of your house or something.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Bildungsroman » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:41 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:For people whose states use the MEE, was Neal Newman (commercial paper) just a bad lecturer, or the worst lecturer?
Hahahaha.

Makers make noahts. Dru-awers dru-aw checks.

Okay. Hope you get down, we're diawled in. Gonna get diawled in and get this done.
His lecture really seemed like he was just seeing the outline and handout for the first time. He was just reading shit verbatim. Sometimes he would even recite an example and then move on without explaining or answering it. I think most of the Themis lecturers have been really good (e.g. Birdthistle, Kramer, that contracts guy with the caterpillar), but that series of lectures was worthless. It's a shame, because commercial paper is so foreign and counterintuitive that a good lecturer who knew what was happening and had some stage presence actually could have made a huge difference.
I honestly think Banks from Federal Income Tax was the worst. He wasn't informative AND he didn't follow the outline almost at all.
I don't have any tax subjects, thank goodness.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by j1987 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:48 pm

Is there anyone out there that still feels like they don't have this stuff memorized and certainly doesn't know all the minuscule details?!

Some of you seem like you've got even the teeniest of details down, and I am incredibly frustrated. Today has been relatively unproductive because I'm freaking out so bad about this.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by dtl » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:52 pm

j1987 wrote:Is there anyone out there that still feels like they don't have this stuff memorized and certainly doesn't know all the minuscule details?!

Some of you seem like you've got even the teeniest of details down, and I am incredibly frustrated. Today has been relatively unproductive because I'm freaking out so bad about this.
90% of us feel that way. Of that 90%, ~40% are stoically taking it as it comes.

The rest of us are freaking out just as bad.

(Statistics are 100% accurate. Passes the Daubert standard.)

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by mmmnnn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:54 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:
jigglypuffdreams wrote:So, just curious, has anyone tried out the "100 extra practice questions" at the end of the Multistate Workbook? I just tried a few of them and I can't tell if they're insanely difficult or I'm just losing steam.
I did the first 34, and yeah they were tougher. I missed the first five in a row and only got 24 out of 34. I'm too schizo right now to do all 100, but 24/34 (71%) is way worse than I've been averaging on the mixed sets online. That said, the mixed sets seem way too easy.
Based on what? Maybe you're just better prepared than you think!

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Gotti

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Gotti » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:05 pm

mmmnnn wrote:
84Sunbird2000 wrote:
jigglypuffdreams wrote:So, just curious, has anyone tried out the "100 extra practice questions" at the end of the Multistate Workbook? I just tried a few of them and I can't tell if they're insanely difficult or I'm just losing steam.
I did the first 34, and yeah they were tougher. I missed the first five in a row and only got 24 out of 34. I'm too schizo right now to do all 100, but 24/34 (71%) is way worse than I've been averaging on the mixed sets online. That said, the mixed sets seem way too easy.
Based on what? Maybe you're just better prepared than you think!
I said this before, but I personally don't feel that the mixed sets are really that great of a gauge on how I'm gonna do on test day. There are twice the number of crim questions in every mixed set than there will be on the test (because they count crim and crim pro separately--and crim/crim pro is one of my stronger areas), and on top of that they'll have the same exact rule tested in 3-4 questions. Also they repeat questions.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by j1987 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:17 pm

dtl wrote:
j1987 wrote:Is there anyone out there that still feels like they don't have this stuff memorized and certainly doesn't know all the minuscule details?!

Some of you seem like you've got even the teeniest of details down, and I am incredibly frustrated. Today has been relatively unproductive because I'm freaking out so bad about this.
90% of us feel that way. Of that 90%, ~40% are stoically taking it as it comes.

The rest of us are freaking out just as bad.

(Statistics are 100% accurate. Passes the Daubert standard.)
I was able to name the Daubert standard, so I feel slightly better.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Tanicius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:52 pm

Gotti wrote:
I said this before, but I personally don't feel that the mixed sets are really that great of a gauge on how I'm gonna do on test day. There are twice the number of crim questions in every mixed set than there will be on the test (because they count crim and crim pro separately--and crim/crim pro is one of my stronger areas), and on top of that they'll have the same exact rule tested in 3-4 questions. Also they repeat questions.
The mixed sets also teach some issues with completely new rules or phrasing of rules I haven't seen before, though, so that's been useful. I gotta say though, most of the answers I get wrong on these mixed sets are because I'll narrow it down to two answers and get it wrong based on terribly ambiguous wording. I know the rules most of the time and I'm still consistently doing below my average.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by Gotti » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:59 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Gotti wrote:
I said this before, but I personally don't feel that the mixed sets are really that great of a gauge on how I'm gonna do on test day. There are twice the number of crim questions in every mixed set than there will be on the test (because they count crim and crim pro separately--and crim/crim pro is one of my stronger areas), and on top of that they'll have the same exact rule tested in 3-4 questions. Also they repeat questions.
The mixed sets also teach some issues with completely new rules or phrasing of rules I haven't seen before, though, so that's been useful. I gotta say though, most of the answers I get wrong on these mixed sets are because I'll narrow it down to two answers and get it wrong based on terribly ambiguous wording. I know the rules most of the time and I'm still consistently doing below my average.
I'm having the same problem. I got 3 questions on the admissibility of diaries in a 100 Q set yesterday, and so I learned the nuances of the rule so that's good. But yeah, I know the rules but when I get down to 2 answers the wording trips me up a lot and I don't do as well as I should be doing.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam

Post by mizunoami » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:13 pm

I have to drive for 9 hours on Sunday to get back up to where I am taking the bar. Instead of "wasting" that time, I've create voice recordings going over my short outlines.

I don't recognize who I am anymore...

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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