2017 July California Bar Forum

Alt123 · Post by **Alt123** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:31 pm

The only time I've gone "Jesus what the fuck is this" on an essay is when barbri has given us their half day and full day simulated exams. Do we know if they made these or if they were actually tested on the CA bar? It seems like these questions were written specifically to test weird subissues, which seems unlike most CA bar essays I've done for practice.

anonymous092 · Post by **anonymous092** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:51 pm

Anyone have recommendations for how to study for the essays? I'm doing okay on the MBE but I look at the essays and my mind basically goes blank. I end up writing a jumbled up essay that is not focused on the rules or organized as well as it should be.

It is best to outline each subject and really study the structure of the material? Or write out sample answers and memorize the important phrases? I'm not really sure where to start.

a male human · Post by **a male human** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:54 pm

anonymous092 wrote:Anyone have recommendations for how to study for the essays? I'm doing okay on the MBE but I look at the essays and my mind basically goes blank. I end up writing a jumbled up essay that is not focused on the rules or organized as well as it should be.

It is best to outline each subject and really study the structure of the material? Or write out sample answers and memorize the important phrases? I'm not really sure where to start.

Just start writing. Who cares if you mess up? Who cares if you have to do it open book? Look at the sample answers. Try the essay again. Do it closed book. Try identifying the issues and reciting the rules from memory. If you can write the relevant issues and rules, you know you can write the rest of it. Do this for a range of essays from the past. The past will guide your future. Try some full essays to make sure you can still do it. You'll have a stack of essays and outlines. The outlines help you see the overall picture. There's an approach for each subject, each topic. Take your stack of outlines to your hotel and review them.

mimim8 · Post by **mimim8** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:21 pm

a male human wrote:
anonymous092 wrote:Anyone have recommendations for how to study for the essays? I'm doing okay on the MBE but I look at the essays and my mind basically goes blank. I end up writing a jumbled up essay that is not focused on the rules or organized as well as it should be.

It is best to outline each subject and really study the structure of the material? Or write out sample answers and memorize the important phrases? I'm not really sure where to start.
Just start writing. Who cares if you mess up? Who cares if you have to do it open book? Look at the sample answers. Try the essay again. Do it closed book. Try identifying the issues and reciting the rules from memory. If you can write the relevant issues and rules, you know you can write the rest of it. Do this for a range of essays from the past. The past will guide your future. Try some full essays to make sure you can still do it. You'll have a stack of essays and outlines. The outlines help you see the overall picture. There's an approach for each subject, each topic. Take your stack of outlines to your hotel and review them.

I agree with the advise above.

I've done essays throughout the course, not massive amounts but enough to get a grasp of what each subject is looking for. I'm not there yet but hopefully i'll get close from here to the exam.

What I've found more useful has been that if the essay i was reviewing wasn't in an area I dominated or wasn't very well committed to memory, I did it open book. I didn't find it very useful to spend an hour trying to write something I had no idea what the answer was or how to word i and actually looking up the answer and writing down the rule and seeing if it applies or what else in my notes i might find that applies was helpful. Then I would try to dissect those sample answers as much as I can and try to rewrite the essay myself. I've done flashcards and I've found some real good rule statements in those sample responses that I've incorporated and hopefully they will stick.

Another things I still do, is even though I do essays closed book by now (for the most part), I do go back to the issue checklist for each class and do my essay with that open, just to force myself to go through the motions. At this point I've noticed there's certain classes like CP or Contracts that I do it naturally because I forced myself to answer those questions in a pattern and it works fairly well for the most part in terms of making sure I hit all the point grabbing stuff.

So yeah, just do the essays. If the class isn't your forte, don't knock yourself down for not being able to identify everything or regurgitate the BLL. Use it as a chance to review the material in a different way, far more productive than just reading the BLL.

The test isnt today. The test isnt tomorrow. If that was the case, most of us wouldnt pass at this point. So go at it.

LockBox · Post by **LockBox** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:23 pm

a male human wrote:
anonymous092 wrote:Anyone have recommendations for how to study for the essays? I'm doing okay on the MBE but I look at the essays and my mind basically goes blank. I end up writing a jumbled up essay that is not focused on the rules or organized as well as it should be.

It is best to outline each subject and really study the structure of the material? Or write out sample answers and memorize the important phrases? I'm not really sure where to start.
Just start writing. Who cares if you mess up? Who cares if you have to do it open book? Look at the sample answers. Try the essay again. Do it closed book. Try identifying the issues and reciting the rules from memory. If you can write the relevant issues and rules, you know you can write the rest of it. Do this for a range of essays from the past. The past will guide your future. Try some full essays to make sure you can still do it. You'll have a stack of essays and outlines. The outlines help you see the overall picture. There's an approach for each subject, each topic. Take your stack of outlines to your hotel and review them.

I'm going to second this. Think of it this way, there is only so much they can test you on. Look at the last 10 pure PR essays. Attempt to take them, then look at and/or rewrite the model answers. See any overlap? Likely duty of confidentiality will be there 4-6 times. Know that rule cold. Also, understand in what context it is applied. Now do the same for all the other rules/issues as well as subjects.

Regardless of the subject, the fact pattern will be brand new on the bar. Your job is to understand what issues are presented, cite the relevant rules etc. If you feel 'blank' right now, then you haven't had enough exposure to past exams. DO NOT waste time mindlessly reading outlines - it might be easier in the sense that you don't look stupid by having a blank word doc in front of you. But you need to be going through that to have a chance come 2.5 weeks from now. Keep grinding.

CRKay91 · Post by **CRKay91** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Alt123 wrote:The only time I've gone "Jesus what the fuck is this" on an essay is when barbri has given us their half day and full day simulated exams. Do we know if they made these or if they were actually tested on the CA bar? It seems like these questions were written specifically to test weird subissues, which seems unlike most CA bar essays I've done for practice.

Agree, man. All five of these essays are a collection of the hardest topics and most obscure rules. If they're a representative sample, I'm in deep trouble.

jphiggo · Post by **jphiggo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:23 pm

CRKay91 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:The only time I've gone "Jesus what the fuck is this" on an essay is when barbri has given us their half day and full day simulated exams. Do we know if they made these or if they were actually tested on the CA bar? It seems like these questions were written specifically to test weird subissues, which seems unlike most CA bar essays I've done for practice.
Agree, man. All five of these essays are a collection of the hardest topics and most obscure rules. If they're a representative sample, I'm in deep trouble.

All of these are past bar essays. Three of them appeared on the same exam.

Alt123 · Post by **Alt123** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:24 pm

jphiggo wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:The only time I've gone "Jesus what the fuck is this" on an essay is when barbri has given us their half day and full day simulated exams. Do we know if they made these or if they were actually tested on the CA bar? It seems like these questions were written specifically to test weird subissues, which seems unlike most CA bar essays I've done for practice.
Agree, man. All five of these essays are a collection of the hardest topics and most obscure rules. If they're a representative sample, I'm in deep trouble.
All of these are past bar essays. Three of them appeared on the same exam.

I don't think that corporations question was a CA bar question I've seen. Tell me where it's from?

jphiggo · Post by **jphiggo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:23 pm

Alt123 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:The only time I've gone "Jesus what the fuck is this" on an essay is when barbri has given us their half day and full day simulated exams. Do we know if they made these or if they were actually tested on the CA bar? It seems like these questions were written specifically to test weird subissues, which seems unlike most CA bar essays I've done for practice.
Agree, man. All five of these essays are a collection of the hardest topics and most obscure rules. If they're a representative sample, I'm in deep trouble.
All of these are past bar essays. Three of them appeared on the same exam.
I don't think that corporations question was a CA bar question I've seen. Tell me where it's from?

Feb. 2011

bacillusanthracis · Post by **bacillusanthracis** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:35 pm

anonymous092 wrote:Anyone have recommendations for how to study for the essays? I'm doing okay on the MBE but I look at the essays and my mind basically goes blank. I end up writing a jumbled up essay that is not focused on the rules or organized as well as it should be.

It is best to outline each subject and really study the structure of the material? Or write out sample answers and memorize the important phrases? I'm not really sure where to start.

I ran into this on Tuesday with corporations; specifically with 10b-5 and 16(b). The only thing my mind spit out was "insider trading." That was it. So I hand-wrote all the rules from the essay. Then I did the essay. That night, I re-read the rules. Then I wrote the essay again. The next day, I wrote the essay again. So in all, I did the same essay three times.

Is that insanely laborious? Yes. But did it work for me? Yep. That's how I do all of these damn things. Like you, I'm good with the MBE. And I'm solid with the PTs. The essays are my personal demon though. So I accept that I have to do them over and over and over.

I wish I had better advice, both for you and for me, but that's what's worked for me.

bacillusanthracis · Post by **bacillusanthracis** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:43 pm

LockBox wrote: Think of it this way, there is only so much they can test you on. Look at the last 10 pure PR essays. Attempt to take them, then look at and/or rewrite the model answers. See any overlap? Likely duty of confidentiality will be there 4-6 times. Know that rule cold. Also, understand in what context it is applied. Now do the same for all the other rules/issues as well as subjects.

This^.

The fact is that they can test us on anything they want, no matter how obscure. But there are rules, particularly with PR, that they tend to test repeatedly. So the best that you can do is know those ones and hope those are the point-scorers when the time comes.

Another way to look at it--and I'm far from a Look on the Bright Side kind of person--is that the PR essay is about the only gift you're gonna get on the Bar. That is, you know it's going to be there, so knowing your PR rules cold gives you the chance to make up for a less than stellar score you may get on another essay.

sk1130 · Post by **sk1130** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:06 pm

Sorry if this question has been asked before (I know a lot of people are freaking about essays and I don't want to post repetitive questions).

I know what I need to do for the essays (i.e. I know I need to be comfortable with rule statements, IRAC, etc) but I am at a complete loss with how to apportion my time at this point between all the subjects. I'm so overwhelmed with all the different topics within the subjects so I don't know how to focus my time. I took the exam for the first time this Feb and I also struggled with essays so i'm trying to be conscious of my weaknesses and not repeat the same mistakes I made last time with ignoring essays during studying.

Dee099 · Post by **Dee099** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:47 pm

Just to clarify, the two selected essay exam questions the CA Bar posts are the top 2 answers, so essentially perfect scores?

the person in my Barbri course is telling me they are just 2 passing essays, meaning the scored on them could range from minimum for passing to a perfect paper.

Now im confused

jphiggo · Post by **jphiggo** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:48 pm

Dee099 wrote:Just to clarify, the two selected essay exam questions the CA Bar posts are the top 2 answers, so essentially perfect scores?

the person in my Barbri course is telling me they are just 2 passing essays, meaning the scored on them could range from minimum for passing to a perfect paper.

Now im confused

IIRC, they have scores of 100.

Dee099 · Post by **Dee099** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:58 pm

jphiggo wrote:IIRC, they have scores of 100.

That was my understanding too, no way some these essays only got a 65, if so, im doomed.

CRKay91 · Post by **CRKay91** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:09 pm

What kind of MBE score is required to shit the bed on the essays and still pass? I mean like 55s on the essays. Assume a 65 or 70 on the PT. Would a 140/200 raw MBE get you close?

barjamie8 · Post by **barjamie8** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:15 pm

Dee099 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:IIRC, they have scores of 100.
That was my understanding too, no way some these essays only got a 65, if so, im doomed.

Don't be distracted by posted/model answers. They are top scores and not obtainable by 99%. Remember you aren't trying to write the top score, you just need a 65+. Look at the real ones that scored 65, 70, 75 like on BarEssays.com and you'll see the difference from the models, what you need to do, and if your practice essays are comparable to a real 65+ essay. This is the time when everyone should be practicing essays every day....

Dee099 · Post by **Dee099** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:16 pm

CRKay91 wrote:What kind of MBE score is required to shit the bed on the essays and still pass? I mean like 55s on the essays. Assume a 65 or 70 on the PT. Would a 140/200 raw MBE get you close?

try this, https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

barjamie8 · Post by **barjamie8** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:20 pm

Dee099 wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:What kind of MBE score is required to shit the bed on the essays and still pass? I mean like 55s on the essays. Assume a 65 or 70 on the PT. Would a 140/200 raw MBE get you close?

try this, https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

You need 125 raw score on MBE and average 65 on essays/PT.

barjamie8 · Post by **barjamie8** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:23 pm

sk1130 wrote:Sorry if this question has been asked before (I know a lot of people are freaking about essays and I don't want to post repetitive questions).

I know what I need to do for the essays (i.e. I know I need to be comfortable with rule statements, IRAC, etc) but I am at a complete loss with how to apportion my time at this point between all the subjects. I'm so overwhelmed with all the different topics within the subjects so I don't know how to focus my time. I took the exam for the first time this Feb and I also struggled with essays so i'm trying to be conscious of my weaknesses and not repeat the same mistakes I made last time with ignoring essays during studying.

You should be practicing an essay every day by now and/or outlining.

CRKay91 · Post by **CRKay91** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:15 pm

barjamie8 wrote:
Dee099 wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:What kind of MBE score is required to shit the bed on the essays and still pass? I mean like 55s on the essays. Assume a 65 or 70 on the PT. Would a 140/200 raw MBE get you close?

try this, https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/
You need 125 raw score on MBE and average 65 on essays/PT.

Is there a minimum essay score required? I like that calculator, but I worry that they consider the essay & PT scores separately from the MBE score and fail you if your essays don't meet a certain threshold score even if your MBE score is like 140-50 raw.

Any thoughts about the reliability of that calculator?

barjamie8 · Post by **barjamie8** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:23 pm

CRKay91 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
Dee099 wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:What kind of MBE score is required to shit the bed on the essays and still pass? I mean like 55s on the essays. Assume a 65 or 70 on the PT. Would a 140/200 raw MBE get you close?

try this, https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/
You need 125 raw score on MBE and average 65 on essays/PT.
Is there a minimum essay score required? I like that calculator, but I worry that they consider the essay & PT scores separately from the MBE score and fail you if your essays don't meet a certain threshold score even if your MBE score is like 140-50 raw.

Any thoughts about the reliability of that calculator?

Everything is averaged. If you score higher on the MBE you can score less on the essays/PT or vice versa.

NYC2012 · Post by **NYC2012** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:11 am

Sorry if this has been asked before- what kind of word count are we aiming for on the essays/PT?

kaytraco1 · Post by **kaytraco1** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:14 am

For those of you who've submitted the ExamSoft Mock Exam, should we expect that the ExamSoft functions that were available for the Mock Exam will be available for the real exam? For example, while doing the Mock Exam, I saw that there a word count tracker and even a spell check. Should I expect access to these during the real exam?

Alt123 · Post by **Alt123** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:18 am

kaytraco1 wrote:For those of you who've submitted the ExamSoft Mock Exam, should we expect that the ExamSoft functions that were available for the Mock Exam will be available for the real exam? For example, while doing the Mock Exam, I saw that there a word count tracker and even a spell check. Should I expect access to these during the real exam?

Spell check is there. You can log into the examsoft website and see what they've enabled on each file.

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