Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[robinhoodOO]

Is there anywhere else we're supposed to be getting our information from other than the lectures (and accompanying outlines)? That's the only thing I've been using as the basis for my knowledge (since I can't recall shit from 1L year) and I am constantly coming across questions covering things Kaplan never discussed. For instance, in the midterm, there was a question that included the term "upset price" in the context of a foreclosure sale that was critical in understanding how to answer the question correctly. While context allowed me to guess the right answer, I had never heard the term in my life. Reviewing my outline, I don't have the term referenced anywhere. This is not a limited experience--I have noticed the same thing in a dozen or so of the midterm questions alone (and I'm only halfway through grading it!).

Am I missing some source of information from Kaplan? Or are these uncovered aspects just an unavoidable downside of trying to (re)learn an entire subject in a lecture or two?

If you happen to watch any of the video reviews, I believe Chris Fromm explains this question. I think he said something like, "You probably didn't hear this term in law school or even the lecture, but I decided to throw it in there last minute because it reminded me of a question from the last Bar Exam I took."

No fucking clue besides that...

[robinhoodOO]

Thanks for the tip about Lean Sheets. Has anyone used them for NY? I'm thinking about purchasing it today. I am so frustrated with these lengthy bar notes. I have been making my own outlines, but now I am truly panicking bc I have not been doing nearly enough true practice! I scored in the national average for the mid-term, (whatever that means) but my essays are not so good. I really need to start memorizing this stuff! Like now!

There's a 20% discount if you want it: LEANFB20 (from the FB page). I have them for CA and for $32, they're well worth it.

I recall reading in another forum that some NY people like them, but I can't speak personally as to the NY stuff they have...

Thank you for the discount code! I just purchased them. They look pretty good. I'm going to use these for the NY subjects along with the bar points book. At this point making another detailed outline is not possible--I completed Family Law and Wills today after 4.5 hours. I just need to rethink my study strategy now and focus on retention. So nice to hear I'm not alone in this struggle. Praying for a good curve at the end of the month!

No problem! I've already started looking them over. There a nice complement and the price is nice considering everything I've dropped up until this point...haha

[robinhoodOO]

Is there anywhere else we're supposed to be getting our information from other than the lectures (and accompanying outlines)? That's the only thing I've been using as the basis for my knowledge (since I can't recall shit from 1L year) and I am constantly coming across questions covering things Kaplan never discussed. For instance, in the midterm, there was a question that included the term "upset price" in the context of a foreclosure sale that was critical in understanding how to answer the question correctly. While context allowed me to guess the right answer, I had never heard the term in my life. Reviewing my outline, I don't have the term referenced anywhere. This is not a limited experience--I have noticed the same thing in a dozen or so of the midterm questions alone (and I'm only halfway through grading it!).

Am I missing some source of information from Kaplan? Or are these uncovered aspects just an unavoidable downside of trying to (re)learn an entire subject in a lecture or two?

Yep, I think just about all of us missed that one. 21% got the right answer. 73% picked a different, wrong answer (myself included). That's pretty telling that there was something fundamentally flawed with how that material was taught.

It's worrisome because if there are this many questions from Kaplan that include things Kaplan themselves didn't teach, what are non-Kaplan questions (ya know, the exam itself) going to include?! I'm petrified of getting an essay question and having it be something Kaplan didn't even discuss (though I realize that is highly unlikely).

I've just come to terms with treating Kaplan's questions as another form of teaching where I need to take notes from the answers. Annoying, but oh well.

Just curious, but have you started doing the essays yet? I've done about 12 to-date. The only subject that had any, uh, surprises was Professional Responsibility. From what I've gathered, what's in the lectures is mostly sufficient to nail an essay as long as you know the material. I may need to hit PR a little harder, though, because I know there were a few things I've seen in essays that the lecturer didn't cover or glossed over, and CA is notorious for PR stuff (and is predicted to test it this July).

[shredderrrrrr]

Is there anywhere else we're supposed to be getting our information from other than the lectures (and accompanying outlines)? That's the only thing I've been using as the basis for my knowledge (since I can't recall shit from 1L year) and I am constantly coming across questions covering things Kaplan never discussed. For instance, in the midterm, there was a question that included the term "upset price" in the context of a foreclosure sale that was critical in understanding how to answer the question correctly. While context allowed me to guess the right answer, I had never heard the term in my life. Reviewing my outline, I don't have the term referenced anywhere. This is not a limited experience--I have noticed the same thing in a dozen or so of the midterm questions alone (and I'm only halfway through grading it!).

Am I missing some source of information from Kaplan? Or are these uncovered aspects just an unavoidable downside of trying to (re)learn an entire subject in a lecture or two?

Yep, I think just about all of us missed that one. 21% got the right answer. 73% picked a different, wrong answer (myself included). That's pretty telling that there was something fundamentally flawed with how that material was taught.

It's worrisome because if there are this many questions from Kaplan that include things Kaplan themselves didn't teach, what are non-Kaplan questions (ya know, the exam itself) going to include?! I'm petrified of getting an essay question and having it be something Kaplan didn't even discuss (though I realize that is highly unlikely).

I've just come to terms with treating Kaplan's questions as another form of teaching where I need to take notes from the answers. Annoying, but oh well.

Just curious, but have you started doing the essays yet? I've done about 12 to-date. The only subject that had any, uh, surprises was Professional Responsibility. From what I've gathered, what's in the lectures is mostly sufficient to nail an essay as long as you know the material. I may need to hit PR a little harder, though, because I know there were a few things I've seen in essays that the lecturer didn't cover or glossed over, and CA is notorious for PR stuff (and is predicted to test it this July).

I haven't really done many essays yet to be honest. I need to get on that. But thats good to know that I should be safe in relying on information covered in the lectures!

[anjmissy]

I thought I was doing great with essays..doing about 3 or 4 a week..then in the Kaplan email I read that now we should start doing multiple back to back..I guess that's a good plan..getting out of my comfort zone..usually I do one, submit it..then won't do another until 2 days later..but the email said to try and do multiple in a row..Like how it will be on your actual exam..So I'm doing PA and the morning session is 2 essays and a PT, then evening is 4 essays..So the email said when I do essays now..do it like that.

[despina]

Speaking of "stuff Kaplan didn't teach showing up in the Qbank" - had to look up requirements for federal habeus when a surprise civ pro Qbank quiz brought it up. Wasn't in my lecture notes or bar points book, didn't have my MBE outline on me, so ended up reading a jailhouse lawyer manual. Thanks, Columbia Human Rights Law Review! Made it very clear, although reading something referring to the plaintiff in second person was a bit disconcerting.

And my new Kaplan rant-of-the-day: I wish there were a way to search QBank questions that I've already answered by sub-topic or keyword. Today saw a Q that reminded me a lot of a previous one I had seen, but with a different outcome. I wanted to look back at the old one to figure out why they turned out differently, but couldn't figure out how to find the old one, so had to bother a live human by using ask an expert.

[robinhoodOO]

Speaking of "stuff Kaplan didn't teach showing up in the Qbank" - had to look up requirements for federal habeus when a surprise civ pro Qbank quiz brought it up. Wasn't in my lecture notes or bar points book, didn't have my MBE outline on me, so ended up reading a jailhouse lawyer manual. Thanks, Columbia Human Rights Law Review! Made it very clear, although reading something referring to the plaintiff in second person was a bit disconcerting.

And my new Kaplan rant-of-the-day: I wish there were a way to search QBank questions that I've already answered by sub-topic or keyword. Today saw a Q that reminded me a lot of a previous one I had seen, but with a different outcome. I wanted to look back at the old one to figure out why they turned out differently, but couldn't figure out how to find the old one, so had to bother a live human by using ask an expert.

I've noticed that they tend to take similar facts and change a couple of issues to have a familiar, albeit it different, Q. That could explain the issue

[despina]

I've noticed that they tend to take similar facts and change a couple of issues to have a familiar, albeit it different, Q. That could explain the issue

Right... that's a nice pedagogical tool if I can actually look at the questions side-by-side, figure out the distinction, and then use that distinction to help me understand the rule and apply it correctly by analogy in future questions (like the endless cycles of in-class hypos in my 1L notes, haha). But since I have no way to actually link those two questions, or search for the first one when I encounter the second, it's hard to take advantage of the opportunity...

[robinhoodOO]

I've noticed that they tend to take similar facts and change a couple of issues to have a familiar, albeit it different, Q. That could explain the issue

Right... that's a nice pedagogical tool if I can actually look at the questions side-by-side, figure out the distinction, and then use that distinction to help me understand the rule and apply it correctly by analogy in future questions (like the endless cycles of in-class hypos in my 1L notes, haha). But since I have no way to actually link those two questions, or search for the first one when I encounter the second, it's hard to take advantage of the opportunity...

I'm not even sure it's an opportunity. I chalked it up to lazy MBE writing...But, yes, I hear what you're saying

[LAW813FL]

So I just did a "mixed" set of 33 MBE on Kaplan and the first 17 questions were all Property wtf lol.

[a male human]

Another nail in the Kaplan koffin

[IFNB]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

[a male human]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Congrats (belated?)! I see that your opinion is completely different from your last post

[despina]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts! Congrats on the bar passage and gainful employment. (just to be clear because the internet sucks: no sarcasm intended!)

Anything in particular that you found particularly helpful in your studying? Anything you skipped that you didn't miss? Other misc Kaplan advice?

[a male human]

I'm only loitering here because I took Kaplan in 2013, but I have nothing good to say about it. In fact, I wrote up a multi-page writeup of suggestions to give to the dev team. I think they sort of implemented at least one suggestion.

[IFNB]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts! Congrats on the bar passage and gainful employment. (just to be clear because the internet sucks: no sarcasm intended!)

Anything in particular that you found particularly helpful in your studying? Anything you skipped that you didn't miss? Other misc Kaplan advice?

The only things I used in addition to Kaplan were the Law in a Flash evidence cards and lean sheets. I used the lean sheets in a panic for my last week of study and I didn't find them helpful. I found the law in a flash cards pretty useful though, because I struggled a bit with evidence and all the little memorable hypos helped it click. After the bar was all over and my cortisol levels returned to non-terminal levels, I started to think that it was probably good that I didn't incorporate too many extra study materials into my prep. Doing so would have been too distracting. I was a pretty average law student (I think I was literally the first person above median in my class), and the prep courses like Kaplan and BarBri are probably geared toward students like me -- the bar really is a difficult test, and they don't achieve good stats without getting average students like me across the finish line.

And if it's any reassurance, there is considerable room for error on the test, at least in most states. I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

[IFNB]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Congrats (belated?)! I see that your opinion is completely different from your last post

It is. I left the exam convinced I'd failed.

[despina]

I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

Yes. These are the stories I need to hear.

I just did corporations today after having not taken it in law school. The lecture, bar notes, and written materials are all just word salad to me. It appears on my state's exam less than half of the time so I just threw it in the "don't bother studying any more of this unless I happen to have extra time in a week or two, because the points:effort ratio is not favorable" bucket.

[robinhoodOO]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts! Congrats on the bar passage and gainful employment. (just to be clear because the internet sucks: no sarcasm intended!)

Anything in particular that you found particularly helpful in your studying? Anything you skipped that you didn't miss? Other misc Kaplan advice?

The only things I used in addition to Kaplan were the Law in a Flash evidence cards and lean sheets. I used the lean sheets in a panic for my last week of study and I didn't find them helpful. I found the law in a flash cards pretty useful though, because I struggled a bit with evidence and all the little memorable hypos helped it click. After the bar was all over and my cortisol levels returned to non-terminal levels, I started to think that it was probably good that I didn't incorporate too many extra study materials into my prep. Doing so would have been too distracting. I was a pretty average law student (I think I was literally the first person above median in my class), and the prep courses like Kaplan and BarBri are probably geared toward students like me -- the bar really is a difficult test, and they don't achieve good stats without getting average students like me across the finish line.

And if it's any reassurance, there is considerable room for error on the test, at least in most states. I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

Which state?

[robinhoodOO]

I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

Yes. These are the stories I need to hear.

I just did corporations today after having not taken it in law school. The lecture, bar notes, and written materials are all just word salad to me. It appears on my state's exam less than half of the time so I just threw it in the "don't bother studying any more of this unless I happen to have extra time in a week or two, because the points:effort ratio is not favorable" bucket.

People are predicting biz orgs/corps are due in CA; thus, I'd be careful to ignore it depending on where you are.

[IFNB]

I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

Yes. These are the stories I need to hear.

I just did corporations today after having not taken it in law school. The lecture, bar notes, and written materials are all just word salad to me. It appears on my state's exam less than half of the time so I just threw it in the "don't bother studying any more of this unless I happen to have extra time in a week or two, because the points:effort ratio is not favorable" bucket.

Yeah it was a corporations question that I was referring to. Something about shareholders. Didn't know shit about shareholders.

[IFNB]

Gainfully employed 2014 bar passer here. Used Kaplan. Just the online course. Thought I'd drop in and see what the current discussion looked like. Pretty much like it did last year at this time. I was pretty sure about this time I was gonna fail, and that Kaplan was shit. I didn't, and it isn't. They somehow know what they're doing. I didn't set any records, but passed with room to spare. Thought for sure I'd failed right after the bar. It's all good. Don't freak out. Odds are really good you'll pass. One foot in front of the other, and good luck to you.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts! Congrats on the bar passage and gainful employment. (just to be clear because the internet sucks: no sarcasm intended!)

Anything in particular that you found particularly helpful in your studying? Anything you skipped that you didn't miss? Other misc Kaplan advice?

The only things I used in addition to Kaplan were the Law in a Flash evidence cards and lean sheets. I used the lean sheets in a panic for my last week of study and I didn't find them helpful. I found the law in a flash cards pretty useful though, because I struggled a bit with evidence and all the little memorable hypos helped it click. After the bar was all over and my cortisol levels returned to non-terminal levels, I started to think that it was probably good that I didn't incorporate too many extra study materials into my prep. Doing so would have been too distracting. I was a pretty average law student (I think I was literally the first person above median in my class), and the prep courses like Kaplan and BarBri are probably geared toward students like me -- the bar really is a difficult test, and they don't achieve good stats without getting average students like me across the finish line.

And if it's any reassurance, there is considerable room for error on the test, at least in most states. I didn't know a single goddamn rule on the last of the six essay questions on my exam. Not one. I made up three or four and applied them. Still passed.

Which state?

Utah.

[despina]

Yeah it was a corporations question that I was referring to. Something about shareholders. Didn't know shit about shareholders.

Shareholders... erm... sometimes can vote on things and sometimes can sue about things and sometimes get money. Yeah.

Felt all smart today when I learned what "preferred stock" is. Asked my SO (who is not in law or finance or business anything even remotely related to this) and he rattled off the definition. Grr.

People are predicting biz orgs/corps are due in CA; thus, I'd be careful to ignore it depending on where you are.

...not CA.

[robinhoodOO]

Yeah it was a corporations question that I was referring to. Something about shareholders. Didn't know shit about shareholders.

Shareholders... erm... sometimes can vote on things and sometimes can sue about things and sometimes get money. Yeah.

Felt all smart today when I learned what "preferred stock" is. Asked my SO (who is not in law or finance or business anything even remotely related to this) and he rattled off the definition. Grr.

People are predicting biz orgs/corps are due in CA; thus, I'd be careful to ignore it depending on where you are.

...not CA.

Lucky bastard...Aw; I should be okay with it since I took it in law school haha (I hope!)

[fishy]

How's everyone doing on the Kaplan graded essays?

I've been doing them from memory, in the recommended amount of time for my state, and have been getting absolutely destroyed by the graders. I've gotten 4 "doesn't demonstrate competency" and 1 "demonstrates some competency". I'm pretty sure one of the graders thinks I'm legitimately stupid. I generally did really well on issue spotters in school, but this is making me a little concerned. I usually can't remember the exact rules for the situation so I just generally talk about the issues without a clear rule statement and get almost no credit. Is trying memorize important rules the way to go at this point?