Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam Forum

[charlieMF]

lol Themis


"Because Congress is vested by Article I with “all legislative powers,” it may not delegate that power to any other branch of government. This principle is known as the “nondelegation doctrine.”

...

"EXAM NOTE: Because there is almost no limitation on the ability of Congress to delegate to the executive and judiciary branches, an answer choice on the MBE indicating that Congress has “exceeded its power to delegate” is almost always incorrect."

So which one is it?

It's both. Congress technically is bound by the the nondelegation doctrine and cannot delegate its core duties to the executive branch. However, SCOTUS has said as long as they give the agency an "intelligible principle" then they can delegate to a certain point. Over the years the intelligible principal test has been completely watered down, as often happens with SCOTUS doctrines. In modern jurisprudence, the teeth have been completely pulled out of the nondelgation doctrine and no law will ever be struck down for not having an intelligible principal. The one exception might be something like "the goodness and niceness commission" that is just suppose to help promote positive things in the world.

Thanks for explaining that. I knew Congress could delegate, so I was thrown off by the Themis explanation.

No problem! My admin class came in handy for something, finally.

[Confused7]

"Answer choice C is incorrect because the best evidence rule applies only when one is trying to prove the contents of a document. The defendant is actually trying to disprove the contents, so there is no best evidence issue." Okay, wtf.

[juniormint33]

Anyone have a Lean Sheets coupon/discount code?

[anon sequitur]

if you go and "like" them on Facebook, you can click on some badge that says "members" or something like that and they give you 20% off. I'd tell you what it is except I don't know it. For what it's worth, I bought them and they're good, but I liked the Themis FRO's better and don't use them at all. However, that might vary by state, I think they have more state distinctions for NY (they didn't have any for my state).

[juniormint33]

if you go and "like" them on Facebook, you can click on some badge that says "members" or something like that and they give you 20% off. I'd tell you what it is except I don't know it. For what it's worth, I bought them and they're good, but I liked the Themis FRO's better and don't use them at all. However, that might vary by state, I think they have more state distinctions for NY (they didn't have any for my state).

They're significantly shorter than the Themis FROs, no?

[IamIn]

Anyone have a Lean Sheets coupon/discount code?

I think it's LEANFB20

[smalogna]

if you go and "like" them on Facebook, you can click on some badge that says "members" or something like that and they give you 20% off. I'd tell you what it is except I don't know it. For what it's worth, I bought them and they're good, but I liked the Themis FRO's better and don't use them at all. However, that might vary by state, I think they have more state distinctions for NY (they didn't have any for my state).

They're significantly shorter than the Themis FROs, no?

Shorter but not significantly, two columns on each page and smaller font than the themis FROs. I've also noticed some things that are not either in the lean sheets outlines that are pretty significant that are in the themis outline or something that is a NY distinction that is not indicated as such on the lean sheets. Still a good secondary source to cover all bases and help break up study monotony.

[smalogna]

"Of the four answer choices presented, answer choice D best states the standard for strict scrutiny, even though it uses the word "important" rather than "compelling" when describing the state's interest."

Translation: We didn't give you the right standard in any answer and just wanted to make you squirm over four wrong answers. I'M DONE.

[kateebee]

In light of all the Themis hating that's naturally been spewed here, at least one person on the BarBri board said they would take Themis if they failed... so I think we're all probably feeling the hate at this stage.

And yes, I was creeping in the BarBri hangout trying to gauge how screwed/not screwed I am for this test. Seemed productive...

[lilypad144]

Does anyone have a Crim Pro (non-state specific) condensed outline they wouldn't mind sharing with me? I took the class in law school and did miserably and this FRO is not clear AT ALL. It is confusing me to no end.

Anyone? Bueller?

[marthac66]

Hi,

Anyone using anything from Seperac?? Also, anyone NOT looked at the New York specific stuff yet? Please console....

[juniormint33]

Hi,

Anyone using anything from Seperac?? Also, anyone NOT looked at the New York specific stuff yet? Please console....

If it makes you feel any better I haven't looked at any of the CA specific stuff yet. Aside from "watching" the lectures, anyway.

[smalogna]

Hi,

Anyone using anything from Seperac?? Also, anyone NOT looked at the New York specific stuff yet? Please console....

Uh sorry but I would open NY practice. Like now.

[sd5289]

God the NY civ pro is the most insufferable and tortuous thing I've ever seen.

I think this is another place where keeping the big picture in mind may be important. The benefit of memorizing all of the SoLs and other nit picky details based on the points you will earn (maybe a small sub issue in an essay or a MC question) may not be worth the effort.

....at least this is what my adviser says.

Also, keep in mind that the SOL's (according to SmartBarPrep) are not the main NY Practice issues that have come up in past exams. Instead, a motion to dismiss (very much like federal, but standard is whether there's "any basis" upon which relief can be granted) and a motion for summary judgment (are there triable issues of fact supported by "sufficient evidence") are WAY more likely to appear because they've shown up a lot in past exams. Especially summary judgment. That has appeared in nearly 20 of the past 40(ish) exams.

[sd5289]

In light of all the Themis hating that's naturally been spewed here, at least one person on the BarBri board said they would take Themis if they failed... so I think we're all probably feeling the hate at this stage.

And yes, I was creeping in the BarBri hangout trying to gauge how screwed/not screwed I am for this test. Seemed productive...

Lol, yeah. I know my friends taking Barbri and Kaplan are just as pissed at their programs as we are at Themis.

[Confused7]

God the NY civ pro is the most insufferable and tortuous thing I've ever seen.

I think this is another place where keeping the big picture in mind may be important. The benefit of memorizing all of the SoLs and other nit picky details based on the points you will earn (maybe a small sub issue in an essay or a MC question) may not be worth the effort.

....at least this is what my adviser says.

Also, keep in mind that the SOL's (according to SmartBarPrep) are not the main NY Practice issues that have come up in past exams. Instead, a motion to dismiss (very much like federal, but standard is whether there's "any basis" upon which relief can be granted) and a motion for summary judgment (are there triable issues of fact supported by "sufficient evidence") are WAY more likely to appear because they've shown up a lot in past exams. Especially summary judgment. That has appeared in nearly 20 of the past 40(ish) exams.

Yeah that's true, thanks for the reminder. What's the standard for motion to dismiss for NY? I know you're supposed to assume truth of allegations in the well-pleaded complaint.

[sd5289]

Yeah that's true, thanks for the reminder. What's the standard for motion to dismiss for NY? I know you're supposed to assume truth of allegations in the well-pleaded complaint.

In a nutshell for a motion to dismiss on failure to state a cause of action the court should treat all of the non-moving party's allegations as true, and determine where there is "any basis" upon which relief can be granted. If there is any basis (I'm reading this as an incredibly lenient standard with the use of the word "any" as opposed to the "plausible" basis in federal Civ Pro) upon which relief can be granted, NY courts should deny the motion.

Other grounds are lack of SMJ, lack of PJ, can't litigate b/c bound by arbitration, barred by SOL.

[yngblkgifted]

http://www.quizlet.com is everything right now. I wish I knew about this thing earlier.

[jkpolk]

Hi,

Anyone using anything from Seperac?? Also, anyone NOT looked at the New York specific stuff yet? Please console....

Yup, I've blown off the NY specific stuff other than a once through the lectures. Figure I can learn enough in a week to pass with a decent MBE.

[sd5289]

Just did a NY Family Law practice essay cold (as in, haven't looked at this shit for a looooong time), and I know that's pretty much guaranteed to come up.

When in doubt, the correct answer on anything having to do with a child (except termination of parental rights) = best interest of the child. One of the questions was about a custodial parent relocating and I was like "errrmmm...best interest of the child?" Turns out it was right. And I felt like all I was doing was BS'ing.

[Mad Hatter]

Can someone explain venue to me? Every time I think I have a grasp on it I lose it:

Say I'm a resident of NDIL, and I get into a three-car accident in SDNY with residents of SDFL and CDCA. Where is venue proper? Clearly in SDNY where the accident happened, but where else and why?

[111aaa]

Can someone explain venue to me? Every time I think I have a grasp on it I lose it:

Say I'm a resident of NDIL, and I get into a three-car accident in SDNY with residents of SDFL and CDCA. Where is venue proper? Clearly in SDNY where the accident happened, but where else and why?

Venue is proper where:

1. DF(s) reside; or
2. Cause of action arose; or
3. Where the property that is the subject of the action is located;

In the event, none of those 3 requirements can be met, venue is proper where the court could have proper personal jursidicition over the DF (e.g. where service of process on the DF would be proper). The rational is venue tries to ensure that the forum would be fair and convenient for parties to litigate the dispute. I hope that helps

[Mad Hatter]

So here, venue would be proper in SDNY, SDFL, and CDCA, but not NDIL?

Taking it a bit deeper: same case (NDIL/SDNY), but the defendants live in the same state (say SDCA and EDCA). Can I sue in WDCA? If all defendants live in the same state, you can sue anywhere in that state, yes?

[sd5289]

So here, venue would be proper in SDNY, SDFL, and CDCA, but not NDIL?

Taking it a bit deeper: same case (NDIL/SDNY), but the defendants live in the same state (say SDCA and EDCA). Can I sue in WDCA? If all defendants live in the same state, you can sue anywhere in that state, yes?

No, because to refine the rule a bit that was stated above, venue is proper in the judicial district the D resides in if all D's live in the same state. So venue would be proper in SDCA or EDCA.

[111aaa]

So here, venue would be proper in SDNY, SDFL, and CDCA, but not NDIL?

Taking it a bit deeper: same case (NDIL/SDNY), but the defendants live in the same state (say SDCA and EDCA). Can I sue in WDCA? If all defendants live in the same state, you can sue anywhere in that state, yes?

No, because to refine the rule a bit that was stated above, venue is proper in the judicial district the D resides in if all D's live in the same state. So venue would be proper in SDCA or EDCA.