Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[ultimolugar]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

[BarPreppin'12]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

What about it are you struggling with?

[hirkaismyname]

Every time I review crim pro, I hear 99 Problems in my head

http://www.slu.edu/Documents/law/Law%20 ... rticle.pdf

THIS. IS. AWESOME.

[ultimolugar]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

What about it are you struggling with?

I am just fucking up badly. But if I had to pick specific sections, I suck ass at pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedure. I'm comfortable with discovery and pleadings, and venue. But fuck me once we actually get to trial, I'm fucking clueless.

[livinlaw]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

Probably a combination. You are losing information because your brain is deeming them less important than the new information going in, and the old information had less neural pathways to it to begin with. You don't lose information, you just fail to retrieve it, that's all forgetting is. The next step is that the questions genuinely try to trick you. So, it is a combination of both.

How I study is I divide my day in 2. One half goes to State Topics, one half goes to MBE topics. Also, if you keep forgetting an area of law, or a subtopic, try some associations. Like, review it while eating a food you like, or something. You need to build more neural connections to the place in your brain that is storing that piece of information.

(I was a molecular biology and chemistry minor)

The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions in one subject area after you have completed the lecture series for that subject. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review.

But that doesn't make sense much, if you actually think about it. It sounds great in face value, but it means nothing. I bet in each subject there is a topic that you know less so than other topics. For example, you might be amazing with easements, but have problems with covenants and equitable servitude. If you had 20 questions on easements, you might get all of them right, but if you had questions about equitable servitudes, it is likely they would not all be correct. However, this does not mean you are bad at property.

Unless themis can work specifically on inner-subject weakness, this "smart study platform" is more gimmicky than helpful. The best way to study is to try your best to solidify topics and see how they work together in an overarching theme of the subject matter. If that happens and you go into the exam calm, not nervous, and accept any outcome as "fine," it won't be so bad.

It DOES work with inner-subject weaknesses. Each question is categorized. Check any of the MBE PQs you've done; they're all labeled accordingly.
I had some issues with automobile exceptions to the warrant requirement and i noticed that the subsequent quizzes had a disproportionate amount of questions on automobile exceptions.

As much as Themis has been frustrating for me, there are a lot of hidden features in Themis. Just gotta look around.

My scores have gone down in both mixed MBE and the subject-specific sets. This was/is really bothering me except that reading people's experiences here has help calm my nerves some. My last contracts set was almost exclusively questions about intended beneficiaries and high-volume sellers -- I guess something I was really weak in. Like, out of 34 questions I swear 12 were on intended beneficiaries, the same question asked a million different ways (and my score did go up because I finally got it through my head). Versus, in Crim Pro I started with an 88% on my first set and now am lucky if I score a 60% so I just have to tell myself it's testing my weakness.

FWIW I got a 65 and 62 % on simulated exams so not feeling overjoyed about the score but hoping it's enough to pull me through.

Mostly struggling with the idea of essays at this point.

[xfer999]

The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions in one subject area after you have completed the lecture series for that subject. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review.

But that doesn't make sense much, if you actually think about it. It sounds great in face value, but it means nothing. I bet in each subject there is a topic that you know less so than other topics. For example, you might be amazing with easements, but have problems with covenants and equitable servitude. If you had 20 questions on easements, you might get all of them right, but if you had questions about equitable servitudes, it is likely they would not all be correct. However, this does not mean you are bad at property.

Unless themis can work specifically on inner-subject weakness, this "smart study platform" is more gimmicky than helpful. The best way to study is to try your best to solidify topics and see how they work together in an overarching theme of the subject matter. If that happens and you go into the exam calm, not nervous, and accept any outcome as "fine," it won't be so bad.

It DOES work with inner-subject weaknesses. Each question is categorized. Check any of the MBE PQs you've done; they're all labeled accordingly.
I had some issues with automobile exceptions to the warrant requirement and i noticed that the subsequent quizzes had a disproportionate amount of questions on automobile exceptions.

As much as Themis has been frustrating for me, there are a lot of hidden features in Themis. Just gotta look around.

I always do mixed PQs in test mode, not interactive. (Trying to work on concentration & stamina.) I've been wondering - sometimes I get clusters, like, all of a sudden there will be two questions, just a few apart, testing a same or similar rule I've never seen or haven't seen in a long time, like, I dunno, specific application of automobile exception to passengers. And I'm thinking, "Okay, Themis, if I didn't know the rule five questions ago, why do you think I'm going to know the rule now?" But I wonder if the algorithm is tuned for interactive mode and the software's thinking I already read the answer explanation for the first question and the second time's for reinforcement? Dunno.

Also, sometimes, I'll bomb a specific subject area and then the next day I'll do great without extra review, and instead of feeling good about myself, I wonder if Themis is giving me easy questions to help me regain my confidence. I don't have time to tabulate & compare the difficulty-o-meters though.

Other pattern I've noticed - when the choices are three yes and one no (or three no & one yes), is the odd one out always the correct answer, or is that just confirmation bias?

[livinlaw]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

What about it are you struggling with?

I am just fucking up badly. But if I had to pick specific sections, I suck ass at pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedure. I'm comfortable with discovery and pleadings, and venue. But fuck me once we actually get to trial, I'm fucking clueless.

Just did a review at my (Fl) law school and for what it's worth the professor (who I guess is a bar prep guru) suggested making sure you know the following for FL Civ Pro:

- All the motions; including - Motion for an Arrest of Judgment (which I dont ever remember reading about in Themis)
- Know the difference between motions and responsive pleadings and the timeline for responding (e.g., if someone files a complaint and D files a motion to dismiss which is not granted, the D has 10 days to file a responsive pleading versus the 20 days D would have had if D hadn't filed the motion to dismiss)
- Go over stuff about experts
- How to ask for a mistrial in civil cases
- How a deposition can be used at trial
- Know what a lis pendens is (another thing I don't remember reading in Themis)
- What you need for a temporary injunction
- May v. must re pretrial conferences
- Judges - (esp. when do they have to recuse themselves)

Not sure if any of that is helpful at all but he did really harp on just knowing what the motions are and (unfortunately) the timeline for when responses are due / when to file certain motions.

[WinSome]

anyone else find that additional 100 MBE PQ set in the book a little difficult?

YES! I found that practice set ridiculous. I scored about 10% lower than my practice MBE. The first couple questions tested on ridiculously specific rules, and I found some of the question to be poorly worded. Anyone else have thoughts about this practice set?

[BigZuck]

IMO: Don't worry about what you're getting wrong or when you're getting it wrong or how you're getting it wrong. Just get it wrong and then learn from it. That's it. Get it wrong, then learn.

Keep grinding.

[BigZuck]

Also: getting things wrong is WAY better than getting things right IMO.

You get something right: Who cares, you know that crap already. Big whoop.

Get something wrong: Sweet! I didn't know that! That's one more thing I know now that I'm not going to get wrong when it matters. If I didn't get that wrong now, I would have got it wrong later and that would have really sucked.

[ndp1234]

Ok, so just as an FYI - I'm looking at MN's answers to the essays Themis gave us and their answers are in some respects, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Themis' sample answers. They actually make sense and cite good law

[ultimolugar]

Also: getting things wrong is WAY better than getting things right IMO.

You get something right: Who cares, you know that crap already. Big whoop.

Get something wrong: Sweet! I didn't know that! That's one more thing I know now that I'm not going to get wrong when it matters. If I didn't get that wrong now, I would have got it wrong later and that would have really sucked.

Thanks. It's good insight. It's a bit difficult to keep pushing when a shitty score has a nasty habit of stopping all your forward momentum. I'm sure everyone here has experienced that.

[unidentifiable]

anyone else find that additional 100 MBE PQ set in the book a little difficult?

YES! I found that practice set ridiculous. I scored about 10% lower than my practice MBE. The first couple questions tested on ridiculously specific rules, and I found some of the question to be poorly worded. Anyone else have thoughts about this practice set?

glad i'm not the only one. most of those questions were wild.

[BarPreppin'12]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

What about it are you struggling with?

I am just fucking up badly. But if I had to pick specific sections, I suck ass at pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedure. I'm comfortable with discovery and pleadings, and venue. But fuck me once we actually get to trial, I'm fucking clueless.

Civ pro and Crim pro are my best areas. I could try to help you if you want, but those are some pretty big topics. Anything in particular that you don't understand?

[xfer999]

Also: getting things wrong is WAY better than getting things right IMO.

You get something right: Who cares, you know that crap already. Big whoop.

Get something wrong: Sweet! I didn't know that! That's one more thing I know now that I'm not going to get wrong when it matters. If I didn't get that wrong now, I would have got it wrong later and that would have really sucked.

Okay, yes, I retain things better when I get them wrong, especially when they're tricks ("argh, cause of action was STRICT LIABILITY"). Usually. But is there a setting in my Themis account profile to stop getting questions with the ridiculous contracts hypo about the software company writing custom accounting software for (law firm, florist, CNC lathing company, etc.) that needs to be at least 50% faster and there will be two equal payments but partway through there's a dispute so the other company puts the full amount in escrow, conditioning release on satisfaction, and then the software company delivers the software late? Because I have seen this fact pattern a half-dozen times over the past few days and I realize they keep testing me on different aspects of it, but it is a pain in the ass to keep track of the facts when I can't mark up the question on my screen and I'm also ok with just, you know, getting it wrong on the real exam if it means I never have to see another PQ using it.

Also, any question where the two parties' occupations start with the same letter (ex: attorney vs accountant) should be thrown out.

[ultimolugar]

Struggling with FL civ pro... where are my FL people at? Am I just an idiot?

What about it are you struggling with?

I am just fucking up badly. But if I had to pick specific sections, I suck ass at pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedure. I'm comfortable with discovery and pleadings, and venue. But fuck me once we actually get to trial, I'm fucking clueless.

Civ pro and Crim pro are my best areas. I could try to help you if you want, but those are some pretty big topics. Anything in particular that you don't understand?

I think I'm okay with Criminal Procedure. To give you context, in back to back question sets I scored a 42 on CIV and a 77 on CRIM. I just am so flustered when it comes to trial procedure. Motions to an extent too.

[PotLuck]

My mantra: never make the same mistake twice.

Getting questions wrong combined with review is the only way to eliminate mistakes.

[bobbypin]

Okay, yes, I retain things better when I get them wrong, especially when they're tricks ("argh, cause of action was STRICT LIABILITY"). Usually. But is there a setting in my Themis account profile to stop getting questions with the ridiculous contracts hypo about the software company writing custom accounting software for (law firm, florist, CNC lathing company, etc.) that needs to be at least 50% faster and there will be two equal payments but partway through there's a dispute so the other company puts the full amount in escrow, conditioning release on satisfaction, and then the software company delivers the software late? Because I have seen this fact pattern a half-dozen times over the past few days and I realize they keep testing me on different aspects of it, but it is a pain in the ass to keep track of the facts when I can't mark up the question on my screen and I'm also ok with just, you know, getting it wrong on the real exam if it means I never have to see another PQ using it.

Also, any question where the two parties' occupations start with the same letter (ex: attorney vs accountant) should be thrown out.

Screen print the Q, then answer it.

[PotLuck]

If anyone knows of essay predictions for the exam, could please post them? I read somewhere that secured transactions is unlikely, but any information would be good to know!

https://www.efficientbarprep.com/mee-predictions/

My state doesn't do family or conflict of laws. Idc what they replace it with so long as it is NOT admin. Fuck admin law.

[bobbypin]

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

I'm motivated by the fact that I have to do this for only the next 7-8 days, and I can grind it out for at least that long.

[unidentifiable]

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

im with you, man. this shit is a week away and i'm sitting here listing to nostalgic music.

gonna pick it up after this short break, probably gonna quit for the night in 3 hours for a solid mental break.

makes no sense to sit here and do nothing when its only a week away. So close. i know i've got much more in the tank than my brain is telling me.

[AlanShore]

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

I read stories about people (often women) who live in places around the world where they are not really allowed to get an education so they risk their lives to study and learn. It gives me perspective and reminds me that I'm very privileged to even be allowed to take the bar exam. Dont mean to guilt trip anyone and I'm not implying if you dont feel this way you are a bad person, but in those tough bar studying moments and when i feel the urge to complain and feel sorry for myself, I think of the people who overcome A LOT worse things just to be able to learn and I shut up and go study cuz its less than 2 weeks away.

good one: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/opini ... -fear.html

[xfer999]

(deleted: annoying K hypo)

Screen print the Q, then answer it.

Looking for commiseration, not advice.

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

Not fear of failing, but fear of having to do this again in six months. Have you taken a day off recently? We still have over a week - you can afford to reset today. Also, knowing that all of this will be over in just under two weeks.

(Or, if you're just looking for commiseration - commiseration.)

[PotLuck]

Other than the fear of failing, what is motivating you to keep grinding? I've lost all motivation to read another thing, do another PQ, or think about anything bar related. My give-a-damn is broken.

Honestly, depending on where you are at in the program, I would take a few hours off and do some non-bar related stuff. It's been an immense month for most of us in terms of the hours, and studying 14 hours straight doesn't mean anything if you don't have the motivation to comprehend at least 10 hours of it.

Take some time for you, reflect on what this exam means. Fuck the idea of failing. Yeah, it's an annoying factor, but honestly more than failing is the idea of what passing this test means. This is the end goal and you can go about satisfying whatever your legal desires may be (jk it doesn't matter we are all going to work 800 hours a week). After this there is no other garbage-can testing, and you are a full fledged lawyer.

9 more days.