Texas Saloon- Feb. 2016 Texas Bar Forum

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

For those feeling good about the MBE, what % in mixed practice sets are y'all shooting for? I've plateaued and am starting to worry.

Trying to remain at or above 70% on mixed sets.

For Barbri's 18-sets, I'm fine at 50% because of how convoluted those are

[left shark]

Is there a chart of past consumer law questions and what they've been, i.e. DTPA, debt, DTPA+tie-in, etc.?

Feb. patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - Insurance
2010 - Debt collection
2011 - Insurance
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Debt collection
2014 - Insurance
2015 - DTPA/Debt collection/Tie-in statute (health spa act) (JERKS.)

July patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - DTPA
2010 - DTPA
2011 - DTPA
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Insurance
2014 - DTPA
2015 - Debt collection


The debt collection essays can have a DTPA tie-in (if the debt collector is not a 3rd party debt collector because of the consumer standing issue). The insurance essays may have a DTPA tie-in, depending on whether the horrible thing the insurance company did is included in Ch. 541 (misrepresentations).

[longhornlaw]

On that Crim pro question from July regarding whether the defense can make its opening statement when the prosecution elects not to - what's the right answer?

[left shark]

On that Crim pro question from July regarding whether the defense can make its opening statement when the prosecution elects not to - what's the right answer?

My review sheet says TCCP 36.01

(b) The defendant's counsel may make the opening statement for the defendant immediately after the attorney representing the State makes the opening statement for the State. After the defendant's attorney concludes the defendant's opening statement, the State's testimony shall be offered. At the conclusion of the presentation of the State's testimony, the defendant's testimony shall be offered, and the order of proceedings shall continue in the manner described by Subsection (a) of this article.

So I guess if the prosecution doesn't give an opening then the defense can't? The explanation was not helpful.

Hopefully someone comes along that can say for sure.

[BVest]

Is there a chart of past consumer law questions and what they've been, i.e. DTPA, debt, DTPA+tie-in, etc.?

Feb. patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - Insurance
2010 - Debt collection
2011 - Insurance
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Debt collection
2014 - Insurance
2015 - DTPA/Debt collection/Tie-in statute (health spa act) (JERKS.)

July patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - DTPA
2010 - DTPA
2011 - DTPA
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Insurance
2014 - DTPA
2015 - Debt collection


The debt collection essays can have a DTPA tie-in (if the debt collector is not a 3rd party debt collector because of the consumer standing issue). The insurance essays may have a DTPA tie-in, depending on whether the horrible thing the insurance company did is included in Ch. 541 (misrepresentations).

Are there any insurance or debt collection questions where they don't have a DTPA tie-in, or at least where you don't have to recognize whether or not there is also a DTPA claim.

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

Is there a chart of past consumer law questions and what they've been, i.e. DTPA, debt, DTPA+tie-in, etc.?

Feb. patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - Insurance
2010 - Debt collection
2011 - Insurance
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Debt collection
2014 - Insurance
2015 - DTPA/Debt collection/Tie-in statute (health spa act) (JERKS.)

July patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - DTPA
2010 - DTPA
2011 - DTPA
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Insurance
2014 - DTPA
2015 - Debt collection


The debt collection essays can have a DTPA tie-in (if the debt collector is not a 3rd party debt collector because of the consumer standing issue). The insurance essays may have a DTPA tie-in, depending on whether the horrible thing the insurance company did is included in Ch. 541 (misrepresentations).

Insurance may as well be DTPA just because that stuff is actionable under the DTPA.

And the TDCA is pretty much the same as the DTPA, just applies to debt collection. Every bad thing the bad guy does is a violation of the act.

It's all the same shit.

[mtyler19]

Thank you for the help with PCV!!!! I'm finishing up business associations today - when does a partner have authority to give themselves a salary? Is it different for a member or manager of an LLC vs just a partner in an LLLP? Working on #9 and #12 and got a little confused.

[left shark]

Oh FFS. I just wrote a thing re: the DTPA/insurance/debt thing but it didn't post.

the tl;dr version

Insurance- if it's just about claims processing, then no DTPA. If it's about examination of tax returns, then yes DTPA. if it's about misreps, then DTPA.

Debt- if it's a third-party debt collector, then probably no DTPA, since the debtor technically does not have standing as a consumer of the third-party debt collector.

Chart came for a professor who is fairly rabid about bar prep- if he didn't mention it, then I am hoping that's because it wasn't there. Buuut, I haven't gone through all of those selected answers to know for sure.

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

On that Crim pro question from July regarding whether the defense can make its opening statement when the prosecution elects not to - what's the right answer?

My review sheet says TCCP 36.01

(b) The defendant's counsel may make the opening statement for the defendant immediately after the attorney representing the State makes the opening statement for the State. After the defendant's attorney concludes the defendant's opening statement, the State's testimony shall be offered. At the conclusion of the presentation of the State's testimony, the defendant's testimony shall be offered, and the order of proceedings shall continue in the manner described by Subsection (a) of this article.

So I guess if the prosecution doesn't give an opening then the defense can't? The explanation was not helpful.

Hopefully someone comes along that can say for sure.

It seems more logical that the defense be allowed to make an opening statement no matter what. Seems weird to penalize the defense just because the prosecution doesnt make a statement.

[longhornlaw]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

[BVest]

On that Crim pro question from July regarding whether the defense can make its opening statement when the prosecution elects not to - what's the right answer?

My review sheet says TCCP 36.01

(b) The defendant's counsel may make the opening statement for the defendant immediately after the attorney representing the State makes the opening statement for the State. After the defendant's attorney concludes the defendant's opening statement, the State's testimony shall be offered. At the conclusion of the presentation of the State's testimony, the defendant's testimony shall be offered, and the order of proceedings shall continue in the manner described by Subsection (a) of this article.

So I guess if the prosecution doesn't give an opening then the defense can't? The explanation was not helpful.

Hopefully someone comes along that can say for sure.

It seems more logical that the defense be allowed to make an opening statement no matter what. Seems weird to penalize the defense just because the prosecution doesnt make a statement.

On that Crim pro question from July regarding whether the defense can make its opening statement when the prosecution elects not to - what's the right answer?

Defendant has no right to make opening statement prior to presentation of state's case when state waives opening statement. Moore v. State, 868 S.W.2d 787 (Tex. Crim. App. 1993).

[BVest]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

Just lots of past exams. I didn't bother with outlines. If you've done the past 10 years worth of exams, you'll have covered the rules for 90% of the questions on this year's exam because there's so much repetition. The above-discussed question re Opening Statements was one of two I was unsure in July (the other being the other question that was discussed recently -- new trial for ineffective assistance of counsel, and that was one you could guess on pretty easily; actually the opening statement allowed that as well.

If you're not doing a review course that provides answers for the past exams, find someone who has those answers so you can learn from them.

[longhornlaw]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

Just lots of past exams. I didn't bother with outlines. If you've done the past 10 years worth of exams, you'll have covered the rules for 90% of the questions on this year's exam because there's so much repetition. The above-discussed question re Opening Statements was one of two I was unsure in July (the other being the other question that was discussed recently -- new trial for ineffective assistance of counsel, and that was one you could guess on pretty easily; actually the opening statement allowed that as well.

If you're not doing a review course that provides answers for the past exams, find someone who has those answers so you can learn from them.

Do BarBri or Themis have any more recent P&Es than 2009? Looks like that's the most recent that Kaplan has.

[jaimeg314]

Is there a chart of past consumer law questions and what they've been, i.e. DTPA, debt, DTPA+tie-in, etc.?

Feb. patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - Insurance
2010 - Debt collection
2011 - Insurance
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Debt collection
2014 - Insurance
2015 - DTPA/Debt collection/Tie-in statute (health spa act) (JERKS.)

July patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - DTPA
2010 - DTPA
2011 - DTPA
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Insurance
2014 - DTPA
2015 - Debt collection


The debt collection essays can have a DTPA tie-in (if the debt collector is not a 3rd party debt collector because of the consumer standing issue). The insurance essays may have a DTPA tie-in, depending on whether the horrible thing the insurance company did is included in Ch. 541 (misrepresentations).

Damn that health spa question would've pissed me off so much lol

[BVest]

Do BarBri or Themis have any more recent P&Es than 2009? Looks like that's the most recent that Kaplan has.

IIRC, yes (barbri).

[longhornlaw]

Is there a chart of past consumer law questions and what they've been, i.e. DTPA, debt, DTPA+tie-in, etc.?

Feb. patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - Insurance
2010 - Debt collection
2011 - Insurance
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Debt collection
2014 - Insurance
2015 - DTPA/Debt collection/Tie-in statute (health spa act) (JERKS.)

July patterns:
2008 - DTPA
2009 - DTPA
2010 - DTPA
2011 - DTPA
2012 - DTPA
2013 - Insurance
2014 - DTPA
2015 - Debt collection


The debt collection essays can have a DTPA tie-in (if the debt collector is not a 3rd party debt collector because of the consumer standing issue). The insurance essays may have a DTPA tie-in, depending on whether the horrible thing the insurance company did is included in Ch. 541 (misrepresentations).

Damn that health spa question would've pissed me off so much lol

Right? I did that essay the other night and couldn't believe that all three sample answers knew that there was a 3 day window to cancel.

[longhornlaw]

Do BarBri or Themis have any more recent P&Es than 2009? Looks like that's the most recent that Kaplan has.

IIRC, yes (barbri).

Looks like Kaplan does in fact have some later administrations. I think they may have more P&Es than they do practice essays.

[jamescastle]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

Just lots of past exams.

This times 100. Felt really stupid for not doing better on this section in July after studying more for it this time.

[jamescastle]

Also @left shark: Thanks for the consumer law stuff. Helpful! Hopefully they toss us a softball this time and don't go for that nasty tie-in extra extra extra nonsense. We'll see...

[mtyler19]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

Just lots of past exams.

This times 100. Felt really stupid for not doing better on this section in July after studying more for it this time.

I definitely have put it off again this time and I'm starting to panic. Did pretty well on civ pro and awful on crim pro, but I still don't even remember how I reviewed well enough last time to even do ok on civ pro.

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

Also @left shark: Thanks for the consumer law stuff. Helpful! Hopefully they toss us a softball this time and don't go for that nasty tie-in extra extra extra nonsense. We'll see...

Honestly, if the fact pattern talks about some specific subject matter, I may just mention that it's actionable under some tie-in statute. Like "Bill sold Sarah a defective vibrator, and this is actionable under the Federal Sex Toys Act, which is a DTPA tie-in statute."

[DueProcessDoWheelies]

Do y'all have any pro-tips in regards to the P&E? I've been going over my outlines and working through some of these past exams, but trying to memorize these...behemoths...has been fruitless. I'm finding the crim pro to be much more difficult than the civ pro.

Just lots of past exams.

This times 100. Felt really stupid for not doing better on this section in July after studying more for it this time.

I definitely have put it off again this time and I'm starting to panic. Did pretty well on civ pro and awful on crim pro, but I still don't even remember how I reviewed well enough last time to even do ok on civ pro.

Crim pro is harder. And the crim pro questions in July were just flat-out weird.

[longhornlaw]

Also @left shark: Thanks for the consumer law stuff. Helpful! Hopefully they toss us a softball this time and don't go for that nasty tie-in extra extra extra nonsense. We'll see...

Honestly, if the fact pattern talks about some specific subject matter, I may just mention that it's actionable under some tie-in statute. Like "Bill sold Sarah a defective vibrator, and this is actionable under the Federal Sex Toys Act, which is a DTPA tie-in statute."

Hey, if you can apply the facts to the rule statement you come up with, that should get a couple points.

[austinmom]

Do BarBri or Themis have any more recent P&Es than 2009? Looks like that's the most recent that Kaplan has.

IIRC, yes (barbri).

Click on Past Exams on the BLE website and you can find P&E questions going back to 2000.

[BVest]

Do BarBri or Themis have any more recent P&Es than 2009? Looks like that's the most recent that Kaplan has.

IIRC, yes (barbri).

Click on Past Exams on the BLE website and you can find P&E questions going back to 2000.

I suspect (but don't know) that the problem longhornlaw was getting at is that BLE has been inconsistent about its answers for questions. At least on the more recent ones it will say "many examiners were able to explain the rule pertaining to X" without explaining what the rule is.